Donald Trump is the President Mark IV (Read Mod Warning in OP)

Leroy42

Its also ironic that in a country that trawls through the social media of its own citizens and is requesting access to social media accounts for visitors you have someone as prominent as Dershowitz coming on national TV to say that things said in a tweet shouldn't be taken seriously!

Leroy42

Penn wrote: »

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/01/us/politics/trump-mueller-investigation-interview.html

Trump still pushing to allow Mueller to interview him believing he can convince Mueller he did nothing wrong, while Trump's lawyers trying to talk Trump out of it or change terms of the interview to allow written answers to some questions.

Sounds like a whole lot of spin.

Akin to the "hold me back" you see when guys have no intention of getting involved.

So Mueller has been looking for an interview for 8 months, sends an amended request a few days ago, but all of a sudden Trump is going against the wishes of his council?

Trump has no intention of sitting down with Mueller. He could have easily given evidence to congress which would have blown the whole investigation to pieces (based on his standing of their being nothing to see). Somehow he hasn't got around to that.

The man is all talk. We are supposed to believe that this man is a genius, makes his own decisions, his on top of his brief, and at the same time is cowed by what his lawyers tell him, knows nothing about what went on during his campaign and is both forgetful and says things on the spur of the moment which shouldn't be taken seriously.

everlast75

Leroy42 wrote: »

Sounds like a whole lot of spin.

Akin to the "hold me back" you see when guys have no intention of getting involved.

So Mueller has been looking for an interview for 8 months, sends an amended request a few days ago, but all of a sudden Trump is going against the wishes of his council?

Trump has no intention of sitting down with Mueller. He could have easily given evidence to congress which would have blown the whole investigation to pieces (based on his standing of their being nothing to see). Somehow he hasn't got around to that.

The man is all talk. We are supposed to believe that this man is a genius, makes his own decisions, his on top of his brief, and at the same time is cowed by what his lawyers tell him, knows nothing about what went on during his campaign and is both forgetful and says things on the spur of the moment which shouldn't be taken seriously.

I strongly, strongly suspect you are right.

but.... on the other hand, I am sure his lawyers have told him to quit sending out incendiary tweets, like the one that was sent out yesterday, and he didn't listen.

There is a stubborn "I know better" aspect to his personality, and that may come into play

Zubeneschamali

Dog Man Star wrote: »

I suppose at one point Trump was New York

What? No! New Yorkers have known Trump the longest and hate him the most.

His whole life has been a doomed effort to get the old monied classy people in New York to acknowledge him, a vulgar, jumped up New Jersey heir to a pile of dirty casino/brothel money.

It's why he couldn't resist a run at the Presidency even though he obviously hates the job - he thought that finally Those People would have to respect him.

But no - he has only made his own failings more obvious to a wider audience.

Penn

Leroy42 wrote: »

Sounds like a whole lot of spin.

Akin to the "hold me back" you see when guys have no intention of getting involved.

So Mueller has been looking for an interview for 8 months, sends an amended request a few days ago, but all of a sudden Trump is going against the wishes of his council?

Trump has no intention of sitting down with Mueller. He could have easily given evidence to congress which would have blown the whole investigation to pieces (based on his standing of their being nothing to see). Somehow he hasn't got around to that.

The man is all talk. We are supposed to believe that this man is a genius, makes his own decisions, his on top of his brief, and at the same time is cowed by what his lawyers tell him, knows nothing about what went on during his campaign and is both forgetful and says things on the spur of the moment which shouldn't be taken seriously.

I think you're partially right, but at the same time his lawyers saying they don't want him to do the interview in case he says something that incriminates or perjures himself just makes Trump look worse. I think in his own hubris Trump probably does think he could sit down with Mueller, not give them anything, and then be able to walk out and use the fact he agreed to the interview and they found nothing on him to shut down the investigation.

jooksavage

Penn wrote: »

I think you're partially right, but at the same time his lawyers saying they don't want him to do the interview in case he says something that incriminates or perjures himself just makes Trump look worse. I think in his own hubris Trump probably does think he could sit down with Mueller, not give them anything, and then be able to walk out and use the fact he agreed to the interview and they found nothing on him to shut down the investigation.

This is the view of Trumpnation author Tim O'Brien who actually did butt heads with Trump in court about 10 years ago (Trump lost). He's says that Trump has a pathological belief that he's in control of things that in reality he has absolutely no power over. Unfortunately, he doesn't actually think he'll ever make it for that interview with Meuller - Trumps lawyers will see to that.

Stallingrad

Every now and then I drift off wondering what a Hillary Presidency (and was never her biggest fan) would look like by comparison to this farce.

Captain_Crash

Igotadose wrote: »

Arnie wasn't eligible (foreign born.)

You can be foreign born and still be eligible to be president. You just have to be a natural born US Citizen. Both Ted Cruz and John McCain are foreign born, but both natural US Citizens via their parents.



Although your correct, Arnie isn't eligible of course.

pixelburp

Stallingrad wrote: »

Every now and then I drift off wondering what a Hillary Presidency (and was never her biggest fan) would look like by comparison to this farce.

I guarantee every decision, every press conference & PR event would have been picked apart and her legitimacy questioned by repeated Sean Hannity segments (remember the horrors of Obama's poupon mustard and tan suits). She would have been a pretty toothless President with both Houses in Republican control anyway, perhaps even enduring more 'Benghazi' style investigations by eager GOP members, maybe even screams for impeachment.

Edited to add: Oh and Pizzagate, email servers, all those fun conspiracy theories would have ramped into overdrive thanks to a bitter, petty Candidate Trump heading another 'birther' movement.

So yeah, basically all the things the Republicans should be doing right now, but are too whipped and politically cowardly to do.

amandstu

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

What? No! New Yorkers have known Trump the longest and hate him the most.

His whole life has been a doomed effort to get the old monied classy people in New York to acknowledge him, a vulgar, jumped up New Jersey heir to a pile of dirty casino/brothel money.

It's why he couldn't resist a run at the Presidency even though he obviously hates the job - he thought that finally Those People would have to respect him.

But no - he has only made his own failings more obvious to a wider audience.

My understanding too. I wonder how firm that analysis is and whether
it might be a biased view and he/his life could be seen in any different light?

(pains to give time to someone so apparently unworthy of attention)

everlast75

Trump is at his rallies, stirring up violence.

Meanwhile, his lapdog is pumping out the same vitriol unchecked, over on Fox..



https://twitter.com/seanhannity/status/1024848908277768192?s=19

StringerBell

everlast75 wrote: »

Trump is at his rallies, stirring up violence.

Meanwhile, his lapdog is pumping out the same vitriol unchecked, over on Fox..



https://twitter.com/seanhannity/status/1024848908277768192?s=19

Another fine moment for Hannity there. The words that come to mind when I think of him would have me banned, let's just say I feel he is the lowest of the low.

They will whip people up until there is an incident and then wash their hands like it's nothing to do with them.

Dohnjoe

Some Beeb analysis of the upcoming midterms here

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45013748

Interesting part at the end; political retirements, a significant amount are Republican, based on the past that's good news for the Dems

DrumSteve

Does any one reckon he is setting the stage for an investigation in the mid-terms based on the Dems making gains using the Russians?

Everything so far is him trying to discredit the investigation so even if it does end up showing collusion his base will not believe it anyway.

Water John

If Trump had lost, we would now have Trump TV. This would be further to the mad side than Fox. This was Trump's original intention. He knew that was a licence to print money.

robinph

Captain_Crash wrote: »

You can be foreign born and still be eligible to be president. You just have to be a natural born US Citizen. Both Ted Cruz and John McCain are foreign born, but both natural US Citizens via their parents.



Although your correct, Arnie isn't eligible of course.

They managed to get around that rule in the film Demolition Man which predicted his political rise to the top job:

Wikipedia wrote:

The film mentions Arnold Schwarzenegger having served as President of the United States, after a Constitutional amendment was passed allowing him to run for the office due to his popularity. Coincidentally, a day short of exactly ten years after the film's release, the California gubernatorial recall election was scheduled. The election saw Schwarzenegger actually begin a political career as the 38th Governor of California from 2003 until 2011. Shortly after he was elected, an "Arnold Amendment" did get proposed.[13]

Penn

DrumSteve wrote: »

Does any one reckon he is setting the stage for an investigation in the mid-terms based on the Dems making gains using the Russians?

Everything so far is him trying to discredit the investigation so even if it does end up showing collusion his base will not believe it anyway.

Absolutely. He tried framing it that the Russians didn't meddle in the election and wouldn't meddle in further elections because no one has been tougher on Russia than him, but that didn't work because he now can't deny the Russians meddled in the election. All he can do now is claim he didn't collude with them to do it, they didn't really have any effect on the election anyway, and if they do meddle it'll be to help the Dems because no one has been tougher on Russia than him.

So if the Dems do well... it's Russia's fault, not his. Never his.

Leroy42

His latest tweet is brilliant.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1024967606577573891

Its a ridiculous statement......and is correct!

The man can't even line his thoughts within 280 characters

Water John

The Russians are about sowing discord. That is their primary aim. Weaken the US and EU. For the GOP that might mean the Russians working for the Dems in the mid terms. Now that would be intriguing.

Penn

Water John wrote: »

The Russians are about sowing discord. That is their primary aim. Weaken the US and EU. For the GOP that might mean the Russians working for the Dems in the mid terms. Now that would be intriguing.

Except what would be more valuable to the Russians; helping the Dems who will essentially tie Trump's hands for any future negotiations with Russia as well as potentially really open the floodgates to an investigation into Trump/Russia, or helping the Reps to help them maintain both Houses and try squeeze as much out of Trump as they can before the next Presidential election.

Sowing discord is good, but Trump has already shown he'll bend to the Russians where he can. That in itself will sow discord and also get Russia much of what they desire.

listermint

everlast75 wrote: »

Trump is at his rallies, stirring up violence.

Meanwhile, his lapdog is pumping out the same vitriol unchecked, over on Fox..



https://twitter.com/seanhannity/status/1024848908277768192?s=19

If that's what passes for discourse from senior representatives of so called news organisations. It's a banner for the ditch the US has become

aloyisious

Penn wrote: »

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/01/us/politics/trump-mueller-investigation-interview.html

Trump still pushing to allow Mueller to interview him believing he can convince Mueller he did nothing wrong, while Trump's lawyers trying to talk Trump out of it or change terms of the interview to allow written answers to some questions.

Hopefully Don wins out over his lawyers advice and goes for the interview ignoring their advice. The written answers would obviously be in response to pre-submitted questions, not real-time answers, on lawyers advice. It should be a real-time roasting for Don, something he can't bluster past, all caught on audio-camera so he can't claim he meant something else.

pixelburp

I've watched snippets of the few Trump depositions made public, and he's quite restrained by all accounts; he peddles some grade A bullsh*t and deflection all right (declining to read certain documents because he doesn't have his glasses - that's right, apparently Trump needs glasses?), and even when relaxed enough to make candid remarks about his political career, remains relatively calm. As tempting as it is to imagine him tripping up via a plethora of idiotic & improvised comments ala his recent rally (where he claimed you need ID to buy groceries), I really don't think that'd happen. He has been part of enough legal actions to know how to play the field.

Water John

Where he would get tripped up, is not going on a rant, but over time, giving a totally contrary answer to two similar questions.

everlast75

pixelburp wrote: »

I've watched snippets of the few Trump depositions made public, and he's quite restrained by all accounts; he peddles some grade A bullsh*t and deflection all right (declining to read certain documents because he doesn't have his glasses - that's right, apparently Trump needs glasses?), and even when relaxed enough to make candid remarks about his political career, remains relatively calm. As tempting as it is to imagine him tripping up via a plethora of idiotic & improvised comments ala his recent rally (where he claimed you need ID to buy groceries), I really don't think that'd happen. He has been part of enough legal actions to know how to play the field.

Would there be anything in the theory that those depositions were some time ago and his behaviour now is far more erratic? You also have to factor in how wound up he is about the whole thing.

Frankly, I think his lawyers are right to steer him away from sitting down with Mueller on that basis

everlast75

Water John wrote: »

Where he would get tripped up, is not going on a rant, but over time, giving a totally contrary answer to two similar questions.

or not over time but within 10 words for example, in that tweet above

DrumSteve

pixelburp wrote: »

I've watched snippets of the few Trump depositions made public, and he's quite restrained by all accounts; he peddles some grade A bullsh*t and deflection all right (declining to read certain documents because he doesn't have his glasses - that's right, apparently Trump needs glasses?), and even when relaxed enough to make candid remarks about his political career, remains relatively calm. As tempting as it is to imagine him tripping up via a plethora of idiotic & improvised comments ala his recent rally (where he claimed you need ID to buy groceries), I really don't think that'd happen. He has been part of enough legal actions to know how to play the field.

Although, when he did those depositions, he wasn't arguably the most powerful man on the planet.

pixelburp

everlast75 wrote: »

Would there be anything in the theory that those depositions were some time ago and his behaviour now is far more erratic? You also have to factor in how wound up he is about the whole thing.

Frankly, I think his lawyers are right to steer him away from sitting down with Mueller on that basis

I just checked the summary I saw & the snippets were timestamped to Nov 2013 & June 2016; the latter obviously being at the very height of his campaign so TBH I think you'd be arguing very fine degrees of erratic behaviour. Lately he has seemed to be far more anxious and easily agitated. Enough to get lawyers worried is debatable IMO.

Pelvis

Water John wrote: »

Where he would get tripped up, is not going on a rant, but over time, giving a totally contrary answer to two similar questions.

Also the point has been made that if he were brought in for questioning, Mueller et al are not going to ask him anything that they don't already know the answer to. He may trip himself up by simply lying.

aloyisious

If the depositions were made candidly in the way Don is so candid presently then the lawyers may/will have cause to worry. Apart from Rudy, who are Don's lawyers now? I can't see the lawyers trying to pull the" He was not president then and not under presidential-office pressure" given that he made the depositions without that pressure on him and they should patently be more trustable.