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Donald Trump is the President Mark IV (Read Mod Warning in OP)
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There is an interesting story going around about a new member of the New York Times editorial board and tweets they sent out in the past.
I'd link sources but I'm on the phone.
Anyway the NYT are standing by their new editorial board member after it emerged that they sent racist tweets back in 2014.
Tweets were like "Are white people genetically predisposed to burn faster in the sun, thus logically being only fit to live underground like groveling goblins"
They refered to white people as "dogs"
And they have used the hashtag #CancelWhitePeople.
Now the person in question happens to be young, Asian and a woman, her name is Sarah Jeong.
The NYT are standing by her claiming that she was just countering racism directed at her.
The point of my post though is that it's situations like this that it's no wonder Trump is popular.
People are sick of the double standards.0 -
Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »There is an interesting story going around about a new member of the New York Times editorial board and tweets they sent out in the past.
I'd link sources but I'm on the phone.
Anyway the NYT are standing by their new editorial board member after it emerged that they sent racist tweets back in 2014.
Tweets were like "Are white people genetically predisposed to burn faster in the sun, thus logically being only fit to live underground like groveling goblins"
They refered to white people as "dogs"
And they have used the hashtag #CancelWhitePeople.
Now the person in question happens to be young, Asian and a woman, her name is Sarah Jeong.
The NYT are standing by her claiming that she was just countering racism directed at her.
The point of my post though is that it's situations like this that it's no wonder Trump is popular.
People are sick of the double standards.
Have heard about the story, but not read too much into it.
But its the last few lines that got me on your post.
Trump and his supporters are the very epitome of double standards. Fake News - yet 4000+ lies told.
Doesn't believe his security services, but thinks vets are the greatest people in the world?
Etc etc etc.
People are not sick of double standards. People are sick have losing the benefits they they have grown up with, such as the white people being in charge, gay people having to hide away, other religions being afforded equal space to their own.0 -
I think the Trump Tower meeting is getting interesting. Several commenters online noted that Trump dropped a strange reference on July 18th in an interview:I’ve always wanted to do an interview, because look, there’s been no collusion. There’s been no talk of Russia. There’s been no phone call.
This is the first anyone said about Russian collusion involving a specific phone call. What could Trump be talking about?
Well, Cohen says Trump "knew about everything", Trump announced the week before the Trump Tower meeting that he would make a speech with dirt about Hillary the following week, the meeting with the Russian was planned in advance.
Trump dictated a lying statement for his son to make about the meeting afterwards when it came to light, and strangest of all, Trump Junior released emails showing that he was entirely to blame for the meeting for seemingly no reason after that again.
Trump also went nuts when he thought the FBI were monitoring phones at Trump Tower.
All of this makes sense if Trump himself dialled into the meeting to get dirt on Hillary directly from the Russians. That's the "no phone call". That's why Junior jumped in front of the bus - to take the hit for Trump himself.
Kushner was there, and has been caught lying about it (saying he did not know about it in advance). Junior was there and is taking the rap.
Paul Manafort was there, and is facing a serious stretch in jail in his current trial. Is Trump nervous that Manafort will crack?0 -
The fact that SHS can't even bring herself to say that, that she needs to dodge a question asking if she thinks the press is the enemy of the people? I mean come on?
She did pointedly say though that she is there to speak on behalf of the President. She is his mouthpiece so its not for her to state her opinion, nightmare of all jobs but she is fulfilling her brief well.0 -
Have heard about the story, but not read too much into it.
But its the last few lines that got me on your post.
Trump and his supporters are the very epitome of double standards. Fake News - yet 4000+ lies told.
Doesn't believe his security services, but thinks vets are the greatest people in the world?
Etc etc etc.
People are not sick of double standards. People are sick have losing the benefits they they have grown up with, such as the white people being in charge, gay people having to hide away, other religions being afforded equal space to their own.
Great whatabouthery there.
The reality is actions like what the NYT are doing are just giving fuel to Trump.
The people who already have a certain of distrust for one side are going to be further entrenched.
Whites are the majority demographic in the US, they make up the majority of voters
Like it or not the liberal side need a huge charm offensive to win over a majority of whites, what the NYT is doing is a perfect example of how they are failing in that.0 -
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Fair point as regards Ms. Jeong. Doubt it she made similar tweets about a different group, that she would be added to the newspaper of record. Bit Off topic but amazed gamergate is still getting traction.0
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Every story I have read says she was parodying people insulting her. I see no issue. Maybe if they published some of the tweets she was responding to?Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »Have heard about the story, but not read too much into it.
But its the last few lines that got me on your post.
Trump and his supporters are the very epitome of double standards. Fake News - yet 4000+ lies told.
Doesn't believe his security services, but thinks vets are the greatest people in the world?
Etc etc etc.
People are not sick of double standards. People are sick have losing the benefits they they have grown up with, such as the white people being in charge, gay people having to hide away, other religions being afforded equal space to their own.
Great whatabouthery there.
The reality is actions like what the NYT are doing are just giving fuel to Trump.
The people who already have a certain of distrust for one side are going to be further entrenched.
Whites are the majority demographic in the US, they make up the majority of voters
Like it or not the liberal side need a huge charm offensive to win over a majority of whites, what the NYT is doing is a perfect example of how they are failing in that.
Maybe she should not have responded and taken the high road but I can see wanting to defend yourself.
It looks like taking tweets out of context of the conversation in an attempt to be offended (by the people who claim to hate those who are thinned skin to boot).
I sincerely doubt many who did not support Trump have paid attention to this "nothing burger".0 -
Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »Great whatabouthery there.
The reality is actions like what the NYT are doing are just giving fuel to Trump.
The people who already have a certain of distrust for one side are going to be further entrenched.
Whites are the majority demographic in the US, they make up the majority of voters
Like it or not the liberal side need a huge charm offensive to win over a majority of whites, what the NYT is doing is a perfect example of how they are failing in that.
Its not whataboutery at all. I have no details of the case so I cannot comment on it no knowing the facts.
It was, as I pointed out, the last few lines of your post that I was referring to.
You are making the claim that it is down to the likes of NYT etc that people are so fed up with double standards. It's a nice little line, and one that seems to make sense, unless you dig a bit deeper into it.
It is not double standards they have an issue with. Its not the Fake News they don't like, hence why Fox News is so popular. What they don't like is stuff they don't agree with. Trump is not some sort of "telling it like it is" man, he is lying more than the rest but his lies suit peoples agendas.
Sure why nationalists aren't great, but hey, maybe they were provoked and sure their hatred is probably ok as not all people of colour are nice.
All immigrants are bad, rapists and murderers, except for the ones I know and like. The FBI and CIA are corrupt yet we also have the greatest military in the world.0 -
Every story I have read says she was parodying people insulting her. I see no issue. Maybe if they published some of the tweets she was responding to?
Maybe she should not have responded and taken the high road but I can see wanting to defend yourself.
It looks like taking tweets out of context of the conversation in an attempt to be offended (by the people who claim to hate those who are thinned skin to boot).
I sincerely doubt many who did not support Trump have paid attention to this "nothing burger".
But it's just fuel to the Trump fire, people don't care to look deeper.
Ignoring context is par for the course theses days, the picture of the kid cyring at the border guards feet a few weeks back was out of context, but hey it worked.0 -
Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »But it's just fuel to the Trump fire, people don't care to look deeper.
Ignoring context is par for the course theses days, the picture of the kid cyring at the border guards feet a few weeks back was out of context, but hey it worked.
Not sure exactly what picture you are talking about, but I assume you mean the picture that turned out not to be of the event they claimed.
But the picture was a representation of what was going on, they weren't allowed near the camps (even Senators were barred) so it got across the actual situation.
It is completely different situation from taking tweets out on context to try to label a person as racist.
The fact that people use it to fuel their own bias and hatred is their fault not the other person. If it wasn't this it would be something else. They need to justify their continued support for a man like Trump and the policies he supports. They need to justify, to themselves as much as anything, why they are allowed to have this hatred towards the media, why they can ignore all the lies and backtracking and corruption in the Trump WH.
So they create equivalents. Like this nobody from way back is akin to a POTUS claiming that African countries are Sh1tholes, are that he really would prefer Norwegians (is white European) to black Africans.
The they then claim that Trump calling the free press, protected by the 1st amendment, is justified because look, some woman wrote a few tweets a few years ago. But even if she did mean what she said (she didn't as far as I can read up on it) she is not in charge of the paper, she is one of many so its not like she will decide on policy.
Unlike Trump.
But it makes them feel better. Its ok to march with torches and shout racist slogans because thats our right, but not ok for this woman to tweet something similar. But it NYT double standards that is causing it?
SHS is not attacking the press because of some social crusade for truth and justice. She is attacking them because they try to shine a light on the hypocrisy and corruption and failings of the Trump admin.
They pry at the goings on. Why do you think Pruitt had to resign? IT was because the press kept reporting on the mounting stories of spending. It had nothing to do with Trump.
Why did Flynn had to resign? Again, it was because the press reported on the lies and possible issues he had. Trump never had an issue.
I could go on and on, but that would be repeating the same story just with slightly different details.
If everyone on the left pure and noble and wise? OF course not. The left is made up of a disparate group of people. Are Trump supporters all racist, elites? Of course not.0 -
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If they don't look deeper they will always find a reason from something out of context. At that point you may as well not worry as the outcome will be the same.Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »Every story I have read says she was parodying people insulting her. I see no issue. Maybe if they published some of the tweets she was responding to?
Maybe she should not have responded and taken the high road but I can see wanting to defend yourself.
It looks like taking tweets out of context of the conversation in an attempt to be offended (by the people who claim to hate those who are thinned skin to boot).
I sincerely doubt many who did not support Trump have paid attention to this "nothing burger".
But it's just fuel to the Trump fire, people don't care to look deeper.
Ignoring context is par for the course theses days, the picture of the kid cyring at the border guards feet a few weeks back was out of context, but hey it worked.
You can't worry about every little detail being taken out of context or you simply allow them to control your life. Trump's friends will give out about the nyt no matter what they do so they may as well get the editor they want.0 -
If they don't look deeper they will always find a reason from something out of context. At that point you may as well not worry as the outcome will be the same.
You can't worry about every little detail being taken out of context or you simply allow them to control your life. Trump's friends will give out about the nyt no matter what they do so they may as well get the editor they want.
Is this the underlying motive behind the "lying press" "fake news" agenda....to skew the coverage of events in their favour?
Not just to discredit the main stream media but to replace it with something more to their liking?
Would it be paranoid to think that? (it would be a central feature of fascism,wouldn't it?)0 -
The notion liberals/lefties/dems, whatever the terminology today, need to appeal to the Republicans/conservatives/xenophobics, is a fallacy. For one thing it doesn't matter what they do they will never have their support due to core ideology. The other thing, which is more significant, is that there are more Dems than Republicans, they just don't get out and vote as well. This is what has cost them elections, the Republicans are better at getting their vote out.
"People say ‘go with the flow’ but do you know what goes with the flow? Dead fish."
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StringerBell wrote: »The notion liberals/lefties/dems, whatever the terminology today, need to appeal to the Republicans/conservatives/xenophobics, is a fallacy. For one thing it doesn't matter what they do they will never have their support due to core ideology. The other thing, which is more significant, is that there are more Dems than Republicans, they just don't get out and vote as well. This is what has cost them elections, the Republicans are better at getting their vote out.
This is the absolute key thing..
If you look at the opinion poll results around the things that the GOP get aerated about they do not have significant public support..
Abortion Rights - less than 20% support an outright ban
Gay Rights - Again , Solid supporting majority - 60% support Gay Marriage
Gun Control - Ditto , fairly consistently showing 2:1 in favour of increased controls
However , as you say , the republicans are better at getting their supporters to actually vote.
One positive thing that the current administration might actually do is get more people to actually come out and vote.0 -
Hande hoche! wrote: »Fair point as regards Ms. Jeong. Doubt it she made similar tweets about a different group, that she would be added to the newspaper of record. Bit Off topic but amazed gamergate is still getting traction.
I had a quick look at that.
It is amazing just how vicious, vile, fcuked up and, quite frankly, deranged a lot of people are.
It's like all the psychopaths and trolls in the world were united by the internet and they have all banded together to bring us this undercurrent of hate and toxicity.
I wonder what % of humanity are bacically nothing but hate-filled assholes and psychos that seem absolutely fine but online they are monsters?
In this context Trump makes sense. If you are a hate-filled troll, Trump is a God and the worse he gets, the more he will be revered by (I have to stress SOME) of his followers.
Has humanity alwas been this fcuked up, or are we sliding into the abyss?0 -
Interesting Guardian article on Denialism and Post-Denialism
I've just read through the current "long read" article in the Grauniad. I'm still trying to make sense of it, but it's an interesting viewpoint from which to look at Trump and Brexit.
One point being made (which I'm mangling badly here) is that there is a transition occurring, where before people would hide their true feelings about something like climate change and deny the evidence, to admitting that maybe it is real but they just don't care about the consequences.
Perhaps Trump fans really do think differently, and have a different morality, to everyone else. It's not ignorance (necessarily) that makes them different, but a very different value system which has been supressed by societal norms for a long time. Trump has given them permission to be their true selves, and if that means promoting the extermination of gays and libs, or genocide, or racism, they're not as afraid to admit that any more.
Food for thought anyway!0 -
StringerBell wrote: »The notion liberals/lefties/dems, whatever the terminology today, need to appeal to the Republicans/conservatives/xenophobics, is a fallacy. For one thing it doesn't matter what they do they will never have their support due to core ideology. The other thing, which is more significant, is that there are more Dems than Republicans, they just don't get out and vote as well. This is what has cost them elections, the Republicans are better at getting their vote out.
Spot on.
In 2008, 60 million people voted an ailing John McCain and his running mate Sarah Palin to be President despite the fact that the previous eight years of Republican government had resulted in 800,000 job losses a month and the Dow going from 14,000 to eventually 6,000 range (and alot of folks retirement funds with it).
So the argument that if only Dems and the main-stream media had been nicer to white people then they wouldn't have voted for Trump seems well wide of the mark. Regardless who the Republicans put up for election they will get minimum 60 million votes. Trump was the most charismatic candidate the party put forward since Reagan and after a concerted 8 year effort by the Republican underground and right wing media to paint Obama and Clinton as monsters Trump ended up with 63 million votes.
26% of the electorate voted McCain. 25% voted for Trump.0 -
So... Treasury Sec. Steven Mnuchin is considering removing sanctions on Russian aluminum company Rusal on the basis that it's hurting the "hardworking people of Rusal." In addition to the terrible optics of this (they seem less concerned about the hardworking farmers their trade war is crucifying), Rusal has some interesting ties to Trump. The company is owned by oligarch Oleg Deripaska: he's a close ally of Putin's, and he has a long history with Paul Manafort (who effectively stole 19 million dollars from him). The Manafort connection is very interesting - it looks like Manafort, desperate and running out of cash, was hoping to leverage his position as campaign manager to "get whole" by arranging a meeting with then-candidate Trump and Deripaska (who by all accounts is not someone you want to steal from).
Also, Deripaska's US lobbyist, Adam Waldman made 9 visits to Julian Assange at the Ecuadorian embassy in London last year. That's pretty odd in itself. On a flimsier note, Deripaska's former mistress Anastasia Vashukevich, currently detained for prostitution in Thailand, has claimed that she can provide information that would tie Trump and Manafort to the oligarch.
So anyway, it looks like sanctions against Deripaska's could be lifted. At very least, it adds fuel to the charges of Trump's subservience to Putin.0 -
One point being made (which I'm mangling badly here) is that there is a transition occurring, where before people would hide their true feelings about something like climate change and deny the evidence, to admitting that maybe it is real but they just don't care about the consequences.
Perhaps Trump fans really do think differently, and have a different morality, to everyone else. It's not ignorance (necessarily) that makes them different, but a very different value system which has been supressed by societal norms for a long time. Trump has given them permission to be their true selves, and if that means promoting the extermination of gays and libs, or genocide, or racism, they're not as afraid to admit that any more.
Isn't it the point of view of the right anyway? You're an individual who is fully responsible for yourself. There is no collective worth supporting; in fact a collective can only threaten your individual benefits. Therefore as long as you're fine, it's fine. You won't be the one suffering the consequences after all; and your children will need to take care of themselves, just as you did. The fact that you might be backed by a collective too (inheriting property or funds, being white/educated etc.) will be denied as it's completely taken for granted. Anyone else can go to hell and their children too.
Trump has certainly turned up the dial as to what level of "let them die" attitude is now acceptable to reveal.0 -
This is the absolute key thing..
If you look at the opinion poll results around the things that the GOP get aerated about they do not have significant public support..
Abortion Rights - less than 20% support an outright ban
Gay Rights - Again , Solid supporting majority - 60% support Gay Marriage
Gun Control - Ditto , fairly consistently showing 2:1 in favour of increased controls
However , as you say , the republicans are better at getting their supporters to actually vote.
One positive thing that the current administration might actually do is get more people to actually come out and vote.
The core republican vote is not in fact important. Most republicans ignore it in office. But they still vote.
Although he lost the popular vote trump won with people who had voted for Obama. Shouting racism isn’t going to get them back.0 -
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jooksavage wrote: »So... Treasury Sec. Steven Mnuchin is considering removing sanctions on Russian aluminum company Rusal on the basis that it's hurting the "hardworking people of Rusal." In addition to the terrible optics of this (they seem less concerned about the hardworking farmers their trade war is crucifying), Rusal has some interesting ties to Trump. The company is owned by oligarch Oleg Deripaska: he's a close ally of Putin's, and he has a long history with Paul Manafort (who effectively stole 19 million dollars from him). The Manafort connection is very interesting - it looks like Manafort, desperate and running out of cash, was hoping to leverage his position as campaign manager to "get whole" by arranging a meeting with then-candidate Trump and Deripaska (who by all accounts is not someone you want to steal from).
Also, Deripaska's US lobbyist, Adam Waldman made 9 visits to Julian Assange at the Ecuadorian embassy in London last year. That's pretty odd in itself. On a flimsier note, Deripaska's former mistress Anastasia Vashukevich, currently detained for prostitution in Thailand, has claimed that she can provide information that would tie Trump and Manafort to the oligarch.
So anyway, it looks like sanctions against Deripaska's could be lifted. At very least, it adds fuel to the charges of Trump's subservience to Putin.
Ain't that funny?Trump wrote:Charles Koch of Koch Brothers, who claims to be giving away millions of dollars to politicians even though I know very few who have seen this (?), now makes the ridiculous statement that what President Trump is doing is unfair to “foreign workers.” He is correct, AMERICA FIRST!
12:38 PM - Aug 2, 2018
Will Trump supporters spot this obvious contradiction?0 -
Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »The core republican vote is not in fact important. Most republicans ignore it in office. But they still vote.
Although he lost the popular vote trump won with people who had voted for Obama. Shouting racism isn’t going to get them back.
What is the evidence that he won with people who had voted for Obama?
The Democrat vote was divided by Sanders and some of his supporters stayed home. Gill Stein also took Clinton voters. I think the Trump took Clinton voters is some what of a myth.
Also, if people are being racist it should be called. If more people had stood up to Hitler, Mussolinim and supporters history might have been different. It pays to learn the lessons history teaches.0 -
dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »Will Trump supporters spot this obvious contradiction?
In fairness, I don't think it's as much of a contradiction as it is poorly phrased. Trump is saying the Koch's statement about his policies being unfair to foreign workers is ridiculous because of course Trump's policies should be focused on improving things for American workers, even if that means being unfair to foreign workers.0 -
Cheerful Spring wrote: »There big difference between taken fuel from nuclear reactors and building a new missile. There no doubt that NK hasn't stopped processing yet.
But this statement is enlighting from Pompeo.
Pompeo told the Senate panel that at the Singapore summit, tearing down the missile engine test site was something that "wasn't in the written agreement itself, but Chairman Kim committed in his conversation with President Trump to do." To which Pompeo added, "They're beginning to dismantle that, it has to do with their missile program, it's a good thing — steps forward."
Why this is important step is they test liquid-fuel rocket engines here that power ICBMs. It's a research facility for testing nuclear weapons. In my book, this is a good sign NK is fulfilling promises to Trump
So we agree that Pompeo testified last week that North Korea continues to manufacture nuclear fissile material. And we agree that, two days ago, US security officials stated that they detected renewed activity at ICBM facilities.
Today, Pompeo has said that North Korea are not fulfilling their pledge to denuclearise. Perhaps The Donald should fire him.
Kim is playing Trump as the idiot he is.0 -
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Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »The core republican vote is not in fact important. Most republicans ignore it in office. But they still vote.
Although he lost the popular vote trump won with people who had voted for Obama. Shouting racism isn’t going to get them back.
You are absolutely correct for Presidential elections decided by the Electoral college.
The vast majority of Americans live in Cities , and a majority of people living in cities tend to vote Democrat.. but a Democrat winning a New York or California by an even bigger margin is worthless in a Presidential election..they only need to care about maybe 500k voters across 3/4 states to win.. The rest are meaningless in a POTUS election.
But this November , it's all about numbers , those extra voters at district level will matter to win State Houses , Congress and the Senate..0 -
What is the evidence that he won with people who had voted for Obama?
The Democrat vote was divided by Sanders and some of his supporters stayed home. Gill Stein also took Clinton voters. I think the Trump took Clinton voters is some what of a myth.
Also, if people are being racist it should be called. If more people had stood up to Hitler, Mussolinim and supporters history might have been different. It pays to learn the lessons history teaches.
Because he won in states where Obama had previously won.
As for allegations of racism against people who may or may not be racist, but might instead be worried about their specific issues (with regards trade and/or immigration). Not a good tactic.
That isn’t to say America isn’t a supremacist nation. It is, but worldwide American supremacy is more worrying than white supremacy within the US.
A lot of anti trump types are silent on the atrocities committed by trump (support of Saudi Arabia in Yemen, illegal missile attacks on Syria) because they have bipartisan support. The reliabily anti trump MSNBC hasn’t mentioned Yemen in 18 months.0 -
Very little evidence to suggest that people who voted Obama turned around and voted Trump especially in the key swing states.
4.5 million voted for Clinton in Florida, more than the 4.2 million that voted for Obama in 2012.
In Wisconsin 1,409,282 voted for Trump, pretty much identical to the 1,407,966 who voted for Romney four years earlier.
Obama got 2.99 million votes in Pennsylvania in 2012, Clinton got 2.93 million.0 -
Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »As for allegations of racism against people who may or may not be racist, but might instead be worried about their specific issues (with regards trade and/or immigration). Not a good tactic.
Trump is a straight up racist. He made this obvious during his campaign he made this obvious after his campaign. If a POTUS who has fascistic, racist tendencies doesn't bother you then you must have racist tendencies yourself for this not to bother you enough where you actually vote for that man.
Again history shows us that the best way to combat racism is to fight it, not appease it.0 -
In fairness, I don't think it's as much of a contradiction as it is poorly phrased. Trump is saying the Koch's statement about his policies being unfair to foreign workers is ridiculous because of course Trump's policies should be focused on improving things for American workers, even if that means being unfair to foreign workers.
No I get that, Trump doesn't care about being unfair to foreign workers, because he puts America first. His statement is very consice in that regard.
What I don't get in this context is the very touching concern of Treasury Sec. Steven Mnuchin for the poor, put upon workers of Rusal and their unfair treatment.
That is definitely not on message.
This could never, of course, have anything to do with the fact that Oleg Deripaska is a dear friend of Vladimir Putin. And that he has been mentioned in connection with Russian meddling in the US elections.
Donald has been quiet on this one, but one suspects that he will nonchalantly and quietly ignore sanctions being lifted.
https://edition.cnn.com/2018/07/27/politics/mnuchin-russia-sanctions-rusal/index.html0 -
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Trump is a straight up racist. He made this obvious during his campaign he made this obvious after his campaign. If a POTUS who has fascistic, racist tendencies doesn't bother you then you must have racist tendencies yourself for this not to bother you enough where you actually vote for that man.
Again history shows us that the best way to combat racism is to fight it, not appease it.
Pay no heed.
Sure the line out of the right was that Obama caused the racial tensions in the US.0
This discussion has been closed.
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