Donald Trump is the President Mark IV (Read Mod Warning in OP)

Chips Lovell

Mod Note

Despite numerous warnings, we've still got a lot of sniping rather than debate. Several people have been sanction.

Also:

Baron de Charlus wrote: »

Mod Note

Hi folks,
The charter states:


Repeatedly calling anyone who doesn't agree with you things like the "totalitarian liberal left" is (aside from making no sense whatsoever) soap boxing.

I'd encourage everyone to be respectful and engage with other contributors rather than hurling insults.

RIGOLO wrote: »

This sort of story taking the headlines this week by virtue of the totalitarian left insatiable appetite for anti-Trump click bait says it all really.

Banned for one day.

Igotadose

In Trump related news, the US budget deficit is the highest in 6 years, and the annual interest on it is more than the Belgian GDP: https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-deficit-highest-six-years_us_5bc545ece4b0a8f17ee4c5d6

Now, personally, I've never cared a whit about the US budget deficit, as the US can always print more money. It's what the money's spent on that matters, and this huge boost to the deficit is a serious inflation driver with no basic improvements - no infrastructure, no climate change support, no improvements to medical care support which I regard as infrastructure of a sort. At least, in a political victory, it does prove again how craven the tGOP are, the party of balanced budgets except when they get to write them.

And, to quote Reagan, the US does not have a revenue problem. It has a spending problem.

2 Scoops

Captain Obvious wrote: »

Her claim was based on family history. The DNA test merely confirms it. She's not applying for membership to a tribe or anything.

All it confirms is that she got caught in a lie and got called out on it. 10 generations ago she MIGHT have an ancestor who was native American. She claimed her Mom was discriminated against by her Dad's family because she was Cherokee Indian and they had to elope, how can that be the case when she herself MIGHT only be 1/1024 native American? Her mother is white as snow. To make up the native American ancestry DNA, the tester used samples from *wait for it*, Mexico, Peru and Columbia to stand in for native American. So what is really shows is that she MIGHT be 1/1024th Mexican, Peruvian or Colombian. Avg person in the US of any race is 0.18 native American, she MIGHT be 0.009% native American - in other words she's 99.999% white.

Strange world we live if a unreliable DNA test which ends up being counter evidence actually confirms anything but two X chromosomes doesn't mean you're a Woman.

https://twitter.com/jfkeeler/status/1051988861784485888

Leroy42

Do ancestors only have a finite time limit? I wasn't aware of that. So at what stage do we stop having ancestors?

The real damage her is that Trump used her claim to be part native american as a negative. Who cares where she came from. It seems taht some people seem to think she used this to gain an unfair advantage.

But isn't that just smart according to Trump? I fail to see the difference between her using the system to get ahead than her defrauding the county in tax to get ahead. Why is one acceptable and the other is terrible.

At least she produced her results. Now maybe Trump should step up and release his tax returns.

2 Scoops

Leroy42 wrote: »

Do ancestors only have a finite time limit? I wasn't aware of that. So at what stage do we stop having ancestors?

So if my great,great,great,great,great,great,great,great,great,great grandmother MIGHT be an indigenous person, it would be fine for me to apply for powerful positions as a minority? Is that what you're saying?

She claimed HER OWN mother was discriminated against because she was a Cherokee Indian.

Leroy42

2 Scoops wrote: »

So if my great,great,great,great,great,great,great,great,great,great grandmother MIGHT be an indigenous person, it would be fine for me to apply for powerful positions as a minority? Is that what you're saying?

She claimed HER OWN mother was discriminated against because she was a Cherokee Indian

I merely asked what you felt was the cut off. What do the rules say?

Her using that to gain from the system is a different matter and one that I already addressed.

2 Scoops

Leroy42 wrote: »

I merely asked what you felt was the cut off. What do the rules say?

Her using that to gain from the system is a different matter and one that I already addressed.

She has no proof of anything so it's a moot point. Warren has as much proof of being Indian as I do of being Martian. SHE claimed to have Cherokee heritage and that her mother was discriminated against because of it. SHE applied as a minority in places like Harvard, not Donald Trump or anyone else.

As the Cherokee secretary of state put it;

"It makes a mockery out of DNA tests and its legitmate uses while also dishonouring legitimate tribal governments and their citizens, whose ancestors are well documented and whose heritage is proven. Senator Warren is undermining trible interests with her continued claims of trible heritage."

Leroy42

2 Scoops wrote: »

She has no proof of anything so it's a moot point. Warren has as much proof of being Indian as I do of being Martian. SHE claimed to have Cherokee heritage and that her mother was discriminated against because of it. SHE applied as a minority in places like Harvard, not Donald Trump or anyone else.

As the Cherokee secretary of state put it;

"It makes a mockery out of DNA tests and its legitmate uses while also dishonouring legitimate tribal governments and their citizens, whose ancestors are well documented and whose heritage is proven. Senator Warren is undermining trible interests with her continued claims of trible heritage."

But she does have heritage. That it isn't that much is neither here nor there.

Again, what are the rules in regard to the minority claims that she used? Has she broken them? Because you are implying that she has.

And once more, why is her gaming the system any different that Trump gaming the system for his own personal profit by way of tax avoidance? They both used the system to maximise their advantages. But one you seem to have a serious problem with and demand all sorts of evidence.

For Trump you seem to be accepting his view that gaming the system is being Smart, and not asking for any evidence.

As usual, it is the hypocrisy of the Trump supporters that trips them up.

everlast75

Igotadose wrote: »

In Trump related news, the US budget deficit is the highest in 6 years, and the annual interest on it is more than the Belgian GDP: https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-deficit-highest-six-years_us_5bc545ece4b0a8f17ee4c5d6

Now, personally, I've never cared a whit about the US budget deficit, as the US can always print more money. It's what the money's spent on that matters, and this huge boost to the deficit is a serious inflation driver with no basic improvements - no infrastructure, no climate change support, no improvements to medical care support which I regard as infrastructure of a sort. At least, in a political victory, it does prove again how craven the tGOP are, the party of balanced budgets except when they get to write them.

And, to quote Reagan, the US does not have a revenue problem. It has a spending problem.

That's it.

The deficit and removal of healthcare are what people really care about, and they are the key issues Dems are campaigning on.

The reality is that if you cannot see that Trump is a cancer and his supporters are "all in" at this stage, then you will never see it.

They are either too stubborn or too enamoured with his despicable traits to ever change their mind.

BabyCheeses

We're talking about the same people who wouldn't believe a birth cert. A DNA test s unlikely to fair much better.

everlast75

Once she proved it, he said he never promised to pay the million dollars.

It. Is. On. Tape!

He's now changed his line..

https://twitter.com/girlsreallyrule/status/1051948863249100800


He won't enjoy testing her personally?

He is clearly, mentally and morally ill.

Penn

If he can test her personally? She had a DNA test by one of the leading DNA testers in his field. What's Trump going to do?

Leroy42

Penn wrote: »

If he can test her personally? She had a DNA test by one of the leading DNA testers in his field. What's Trump going to do?

He is not going to do anything. It is simply him moving the goalposts because he felt she would never actually produce it and therefore he couldn't lose.

She called his bluff, showed her hand and in return he has nothing. So he blames the deck, or the dealer, or the house or whatever.

Yet again a trivial matter ends up showing Trump for the coward that he is. The great dealmaker made a deal and is now whelching on the bet. Sad.

He could have laughed it off, paid over the €1m and said that it means nothing cause he has bigger things to worry about like Hurricane relief etc.

But no, the man can't stand being made a fool of so has to resort to petty little digs (I wouldn't enjoy it!). What does he think a DNA test requires?

everlast75

Penn wrote: »

If he can test her personally? She had a DNA test by one of the leading DNA testers in his field. What's Trump going to do?

The implication, and not so subtle either, is that there is some sort of sexual connotation to "testing her personally" for DNA, and that as he finds her unattractive, he won't enjoy it.

That's what he reduces all women to.

And you will note the most bullied woman in the world, standing beside him, smiling like some sort of village idiot.

B0jangles

Penn wrote: »

If he can test her personally? She had a DNA test by one of the leading DNA testers in his field. What's Trump going to do?

He'll use a Trump® Brand DNA Test kit on her - GUARANTEED(1) SAFE!(2), ACCURATE!(3) and FAST!(4)







(1)Guarantee not valid
(2)Not entirely safe - do not use in enclosed spaces, outdoors or if currently respiring
(3)LOL
(4)Please wait 6-8 weeks before beginning refund process.

Captain Obvious

2 Scoops wrote: »

All it confirms is that she got caught in a lie and got called out on it. 10 generations ago she MIGHT have an ancestor who was native American. She claimed her Mom was discriminated against by her Dad's family because she was Cherokee Indian and they had to elope, how can that be the case when she herself MIGHT only be 1/1024 native American? Her mother is white as snow. To make up the native American ancestry DNA, the tester used samples from *wait for it*, Mexico, Peru and Columbia to stand in for native American. So what is really shows is that she MIGHT be 1/1024th Mexican, Peruvian or Colombian. Avg person in the US of any race is 0.18 native American, she MIGHT be 0.009% native American - in other words she's 99.999% white.

Strange world we live if a unreliable DNA test which ends up being counter evidence actually confirms anything but two X chromosomes doesn't mean you're a Woman.

https://twitter.com/jfkeeler/status/1051988861784485888

Can you clarify, are you calling Warren a liar or saying the DNA test was dodgy? She claimed her mother was part Cherokee going back generations. Seems to be supported by her own DNA test.

2 Scoops wrote: »

So if my great,great,great,great,great,great,great,great,great,great grandmother MIGHT be an indigenous person, it would be fine for me to apply for powerful positions as a minority? Is that what you're saying?

She claimed HER OWN mother was discriminated against because she was a Cherokee Indian.

What powerful position did she apply for based on being a minority?

Captain Obvious

Massive voter suppression underway in Nevada.

At Least 90,000 Voters Purged From Nevada Voter Rolls, Voting Rights Group Claims

https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile/at-least-90000-voters-purged-from-nevada-voter-rolls-voting-rights-group-claims/

And voter intimidation in Georgia

Roughly 40 black seniors were told to get off a bus organized to take them to cast their votes.

https://thinkprogress.org/georgia-black-voters-matter-bus-blocked-from-taking-seniors-to-vote-a3c3e6580c5b/

This stuff is truly amazing. It's so blatant. They don't care about being caught because they control the judiciaries. They don't even deny stuff. There's actually discussions going on about how people should react if Republican Governors decide to simply ignore election results and appoint Republicans regardless of the election results. Imagine your democracy being so broke you can't even be sure an election will be listened to.

everlast75

Captain Obvious wrote: »

Massive voter suppression underway in Nevada.



https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile/at-least-90000-voters-purged-from-nevada-voter-rolls-voting-rights-group-claims/

And voter intimidation in Georgia



https://thinkprogress.org/georgia-black-voters-matter-bus-blocked-from-taking-seniors-to-vote-a3c3e6580c5b/

This stuff is truly amazing. It's so blatant. They don't care about being caught because they control the judiciaries. They don't even deny stuff. There's actually discussions going on about how people should react if Republican Governors decide to simply ignore election results and appoint Republicans regardless of the election results. Imagine your democracy being so broke you can't even be sure an election will be listened to.

Not to mention Georgia refusing help from intelligence agencies to protect from outside tampering, or the rampant gerrymandering...

batgoat

Captain Obvious wrote: »

Can you clarify, are you calling Warren a liar or saying the DNA test was dodgy? She claimed her mother was part Cherokee going back generations. Seems to be supported by her own DNA test.





What powerful position did she apply for based on being a minority?

An investigation I linked to a few weeks back indicates it never factored into hiring her. Posters seem to be making the claim with nothing to back up.

RobertKK

1/1024th Native American doesn't make a person Native American. Just like my DNA test showing 0.3% Scandinavian doesn't make me a Viking.

Then I see Stormy Daniels totally lost her case against Trump and has to pay his legal fees too, so the people who jumped on her bandwagon and donated to a gofundme fund raiser did it in the end so she could pay Trump money.

Timberrrrrrrr

RobertKK wrote: »

1/1024th Native American doesn't make a person Native American. Just like my DNA test showing 0.3% Scandinavian doesn't make me a Viking.

Then I see Stormy Daniels totally lost her case against Trump and has to pay his legal fees too, so the people who jumped on her bandwagon and donated to a gofundme fund raiser did it in the end so she could pay Trump money.

She never claimed to be Native American, she said she had Native American ancestry. The same way most US presidents claim irish heritage i suppose.

Professor Moriarty

RobertKK wrote: »

1/1024th Native American doesn't make a person Native American. Just like my DNA test showing 0.3% Scandinavian doesn't make me a Viking.

Then I see Stormy Daniels totally lost her case against Trump and has to pay his legal fees too, so the people who jumped on her bandwagon and donated to a gofundme fund raiser did it in the end so she could pay Trump money.

No, they did it to undermine Trump. Anything that undermines Trump is fine by me.

Captain Obvious

RobertKK wrote: »

1/1024th Native American doesn't make a person Native American. Just like my DNA test showing 0.3% Scandinavian doesn't make me a Viking.

Then I see Stormy Daniels totally lost her case against Trump and has to pay his legal fees too, so the people who jumped on her bandwagon and donated to a gofundme fund raiser did it in the end so she could pay Trump money.

She doesn't have to pay Trump, she has to pay one of his lawyers.

TomOnBoard

everlast75 wrote: »

Not to mention Georgia refusing help from intelligence agencies to protect from outside tampering, or the rampant gerrymandering...

These blatant attempts at voter suppression in Georgia are like you'd see in one of the shtihole countries beloved of the President... Perhaps the United Nations need to send in some of the voting observers they have to use to monitor elections in other "democracies"?

Captain Obvious

TomOnBoard wrote: »

These blatant attempts at voter suppression in Georgia are like you'd see in one of the shtihole countries beloved of the President... Perhaps the United Nations need to send in some of the voting observers they have to use to monitor elections in other "democracies"?

At least those countries put on an act. The GOP don't care who knows.

pixelburp

It's hard not to infer that the era of Jim Crow is still in effect, albeit repackaged, alongside the cognitive hoops often surmised as "how can the US be racist anymore having had a Black president?"

We're going to the polls ourselves on the 26th and I'm thankful that the process is relatively painless, inclusive and fair. Even if it's a ceremonial position we should all do our upmost to vote, if only in gratitude that we can.

RobertKK

Captain Obvious wrote: »

She doesn't have to pay Trump, she has to pay one of his lawyers.

Whom Trump would have had to pay, but instead it is Stormy Daniels and her supporters who funded her that have to pay Trump's lawyer, thus saving Trump money.

RobertKK

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

She never claimed to be Native American, she said she had Native American ancestry. The same way most US presidents claim irish heritage i suppose.

Harvard did, and she is a product of Harvard. I don't know if she has ever said what Harvard did is wrong.
Harvard did tick a box that said she is Native American, Elizabeth Warren admits she told them that.

“At some point after I was hired by them, I . . . provided that information to the University of Pennsylvania and Harvard,’’ she said in a statement issued by her campaign. “My Native American heritage is part of who I am, I’m proud of it and I have been open about it.’’

the Globe asked her campaign about documents it obtained Wednesday from Harvard’s library showing that the university’s law school began reporting a Native American female professor in federal statistics for the 1992-93 school year, the first year Warren worked at Harvard, as a visiting professor.

http://archive.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2012/05/31/elizabeth_warren_acknowledges_telling_harvard_penn_of_native_american_status/

Timberrrrrrrr

RobertKK wrote: »

Harvard did, and she is a product of Harvard. I don't know if she has ever said what Harvard did is wrong.
Harvard did tick a box that said she is Native American, Elizabeth Warren admits she told them that.







http://archive.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2012/05/31/elizabeth_warren_acknowledges_telling_harvard_penn_of_native_american_status/

She said

“My Native American heritage is part of who I am, I’m proud of it and I have been open about it.’’

She is not responsibke for what Harvard saud only her own words and from your own link it proves she said "Native American heritage!

RobertKK

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

She said



She is not responsibke for what Harvard saud only her own words and from your own link it proves she said "Native American heritage!

1/1024th she is having a laugh. Her heritage...and the people lapping it up are the people she is laughing at.