Donald Trump is the President Mark IV (Read Mod Warning in OP)

everlast75

Here is "the base" that people talk about.

Scary the way they see absolutely no problem with what they say..


https://twitter.com/real_farmacist/status/1054515727259103233

Danzy

milennial wrote: »

trump's biggest test is coming up
george soros and the democrats, led by patriot feinstein and schumer are organizing the caravan of refugees from honduras

It is a positive for Trump.

What better way to motivate working class whites and Hispanics to turn out for the Republicans.

What else could highlight the stark class divide between the Democrats and so much of the electorate.

batgoat

Danzy wrote: »

It is a positive for Trump.

What better way to motivate working class whites and Hispanics to turn out for the Republicans.

What else could highlight the stark class divide between the Democrats and so much of the electorate.

But he made it up... It's propaganda with no basis in reality.

Leroy42

His whole agenda is based on propaganda with no basis in reality. Why would this be any different?

As pointed out on that twitter thread about the tax cuts, instead of the media reporting "Trump to deliver 10% tax cut" the media should be reporting the actual story.

That Trump is making promises he can't keep and that congress is not in session. So either he is lying or ignorant.

Instead they give him the benefit of the doubt that normally accompanies the position of POTUS, but which should not be extended to such a proven liar. So all this talk from Trump and his supporters about the terrible deal they get from the MSM, this is yet another example of the completely free ride he actually gets.

everlast75

If the "libs" are so awful, why the hell does he need to lie about what they are doing and what they stand for?

The fact that he does lie, all the live long day, shows that there mustn't be any basis in fact for the criticism of the Dems.

I mean, doesn't that defeat his own argument?

relax carry on

everlast75 wrote: »

If the "libs" are so awful, why the hell does he need to lie about what they are doing and what they stand for?

The fact that he does lie, all the live long day, shows that there mustn't be any basis in fact for the criticism of the Dems.

I mean, doesn't that defeat his own argument?

But you are making the mistake of looking for logic and reason in Trumps world.

Danzy

batgoat wrote: »

But he made it up... It's propaganda with no basis in reality.

So the video of people marching, storming borders is made up?

If it is about Isis, that is rubbish.In Europe rot would certainly be true and often seen but there, no.

The mob attacking the checkpoint is all that needed to be shown.

Leroy42

Danzy wrote: »

So the video of people marching, storming borders is made up?

If it is about Isis, that is rubbish.In Europe rot would certainly be true and often seen but there, no.

The mob attacking the checkpoint is all that needed to be shown.

No, that fact that there are people marching toward the border is not in question.

Trump though has blamed it on the Dems, said it has been infiltrated by Middle Easterners. That they are all illegal. But none of that is wholly true.

Are they ISIS sympathisers within the crowd? Probably, it is a clear option for them to take. But if you take that view that shouldn't you block all immigration? And what about the people already in the US?

Like with everything Trump says, it is always based on a possibility, but possibility is not the same as actual and shouldn't be used to drive to drive an agenda.

Christy42

batgoat wrote: »

Danzy wrote: »

It is a positive for Trump.

What better way to motivate working class whites and Hispanics to turn out for the Republicans.

What else could highlight the stark class divide between the Democrats and so much of the electorate.

But he made it up... It's propaganda with no basis in reality.

And? It is still a positive for the Republicans and Trump. They have based themselves on lies and ensuring they are the only people their base believes.

I mean horrific but this is just another pie on the pile for the POTUS. The sad thing is enough Americans don't care anymore if he lies or cheers on violence against reporters.

Igotadose

Christy42 wrote: »

And? It is still a positive for the Republicans and Trump. They have based themselves on lies and ensuring they are the only people their base believes.

I mean horrific but this is just another pie on the pile for the POTUS. The sad thing is enough Americans don't care anymore if he lies or cheers on violence against reporters.

And he doesn't even try not to lie. https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/10/the-crushing-dumbness-of-donald-trump-lying-lies-middle-easterners-caravan-tax-cut.html

"Donald Trump is the president of the United States, which, to Donald, is great because it’s like being the star of a show that everyone has to watch, because they’re terrified of what he might do next. T"

Stallingrad

Fascinated to see how the mid terms play out, will any of the electorate who voted for T have buyers remorse?

You can argue that despite his campaign rhetoric he was an unknown quantity. Remember when people hoped that he would start to act "Presidential' once in office? Now the US know what he is and what they have, this election is arguably a better barometer of who the US is, and what the US want to be more so than ever before.

I am hopeful that real American values will reveal themselves (some will argue they have already) but I have not given up on them yet.

everlast75

Stallingrad wrote: »

Fascinated to see how the mid terms play out, will any of the electorate who voted for T have buyers remorse?

You can argue that despite his campaign rhetoric he was an unknown quantity. Remember when people hoped that he would start to act "Presidential' once in office? Now the US know what he is and what they have, this election is arguably a better barometer of who the US is, and what the US want to be more so than ever before.

I am hopeful that real American values will reveal themselves (some will argue they have already) but I have not given up on them yet.

I don't think anyone that voted for Hillary, regrets voting for Hillary.

I cannot say the same for Trump..

Leroy42

Stallingrad wrote: »

I am hopeful that real American values will reveal themselves (some will argue they have already) but I have not given up on them yet.

You have already answered your own question. Whether a majority or not is in question, but there is no doubt that a very sizeable portion of the US are mroe than happy with the values of Trump and the America that he is shaping.

demfad

Stallingrad wrote: »

Fascinated to see how the mid terms play out, will any of the electorate who voted for T have buyers remorse?

You can argue that despite his campaign rhetoric he was an unknown quantity. Remember when people hoped that he would start to act "Presidential' once in office? Now the US know what he is and what they have, this election is arguably a better barometer of who the US is, and what the US want to be more so than ever before.

I am hopeful that real American values will reveal themselves (some will argue they have already) but I have not given up on them yet.

Trump is talking about voter fraud and previously talked about Chinese meddling in the election. He implied that IDs should be checked (vigilante checks at voting booths). There has been some talk of Trump weighing not recognising a close result.
What tactics would a person like Trump with power use to undermine an election?
We will find out I fear.

everlast75

So, after all the talk about Mnuchin not going, a second (after Pompeo) nice photo op with MBS, all while khashoggi's body has still yet to be delivered up and Saudi Arabia continues to try and get its story straight

https://twitter.com/CNNPolitics/status/1054715329564364800

Leroy42

We already know what tactics they will use, Trump had already got them underway prior to the election and even used some of them (massive voter fraud) even though he won to try to get the overall majority as well as the EC.

There will be vague calls about voter fraud, George Soros will be mentioned, the DNC will obviously played a major role and a few other things.

Nothing will actually ever happen, but it will allow the likes of Fox News and the WH to complain about it everytime something is not in their favor as if it was real.

Captain Obvious

George Soros, the bogeyman of the right, targeted with an explosive device. Could have killed anyone. Discovered by an employee. This is the danger in rhetoric from the GOP.


https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45949737

A suspect package found in a post box at the home of billionaire businessman George Soros contained an explosive device, New York police have confirmed.

This is a post I saw on reddit that i think demonstrates very well how cult like Republicans have become.

• In just five years, white evangelicals have become much more likely to say a person who commits an “immoral” act can behave ethically in a public role. In 2011, just 30 percent of these evangelicals said this, but that number has more than doubled to 72 percent in a recent [2016, ed.] survey, a 42 point swing. (In 2011 44% of all Americans felt this way, by 2016 that number was up to 61%, a movement of 17 points.)
• 75% of Republicans and 53% of Democrats said that Wikileaks release of classified diplomatic communications harms the public interest in 2010, 12% of Republicans and 48% of Democrats say that Wikileaks release of John Podesta's emails harms the public interest in 2016. (Not exactly the same question, but comprable, also a 63 point swing for Republicans and a 5 point change for Democrats.)
• 22% of Republicans and 37% of Democrats supported President Obama issuing missile strikes against Syria in 2013, 86% of Republicans and 38% of Democrats supported President Trump striking Syria in 2017, a 64 point swing for Republicans, a 1 point change for Democrats.
• 12% of Republicans and 15% of Democrats had a favorable view of Vladimir Putin in 2015, 32% of Republicans and 10% of Democrats have a favorable view of him in 2017, a 20 point swing for Republicans, a 5 point change for Democrats.
• 17% of Republicans and 18% of Democrats said Russia was an ally of the US in July 2016, 31% of Republicans and 16% of Democrats saw them as an ally six months later in December 2016, a 14 point swing for Republicans and a 2 point change for Democrats.
• 39% of Republicans and 64% of Democrats thought their income tax rate was fair in 2016, 56% of Republicans and 69% of Democrats thought that their income tax rate was fair in 2017, a 17 point swing for Republicans and a 4 point change for Democrats. (The income tax rate did not change between 2016 and 2017, ed.)
• When Republican voters in Wisconsin were asked in October 2016 whether the economy had gotten better or worse “over the past year,” they said “worse’’ — by a margin of 28 points. But when they were asked the very same question [in March 2017], they said “better” — by a margin of 54 points. That’s a net swing of 82 percentage points between late October 2016 and mid-March 2017.
• "Forty-two percent of Trump voters think he should be allowed to have a private email server to just 39 percent who think he shouldn't be allowed to,"

The big swings in opinion are really something.

Jolly Red Giant

Captain Obvious wrote: »

George Soros, the bogeyman of the right, targeted with an explosive device. Could have killed anyone. Discovered by an employee. This is the danger in rhetoric from the GOP.


https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45949737



This is a post I saw on reddit that i think demonstrates very well how cult like Republicans have become.





The big swings in opinion are really something.

Was watching a series of interviews at the Trumper rallies in recent days - people were asked how has Trump's presidency impacted in them - the answer was almost exclusively that he had cut taxes. They were then asked how much more they have in their pay packet - the answer varied from 'substantially more' to 'significantly more' to '$150 a month' to '$2,000 a year' to 'thousands of dollars'.

Here is that daft thing - the tax cuts don't kick in until April of 2019 - the Trumpers were delusional enough to believe that they were already seeing thousands extra in their pay packets

Celticfire

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

Here is that daft thing - the tax cuts don't kick in until April of 2019 - the Trumpers were delusional enough to believe that they were already seeing thousands extra in their pay packets

Well it seems that the Trumpers are right and you are wrong.

Some of the Republican tax bill’s impact will begin at the start of 2018, though other elements won’t take effect until 2019

With changes to the tax rates, the GOP tax bill brings tax cuts to almost all of the seven tax brackets beginning in 2018.

http://fortune.com/2017/12/20/gop-tax-bill-cuts-start/

goat2

Is there something in Sharia law,
that if the murdered mans family forgive his murder, everything will be over and stopped,
Is this why they have met his family

circadian

Captain Obvious wrote: »

George Soros, the bogeyman of the right, targeted with an explosive device. Could have killed anyone. Discovered by an employee. This is the danger in rhetoric from the GOP.


https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45949737



This is a post I saw on reddit that i think demonstrates very well how cult like Republicans have become.





The big swings in opinion are really something.

It displays a complete lack of critical thinking.

aloyisious

I'm guessing Don's latest position on the Saudi handling of Mr Khashoggi is based on direct reporting from his CIA director via secure links to his Nat Sec advisor, with him filtering and preventing embarrassing tweetings coming out from the W/H. The notion that X amount of S/A Pers can fly both ways without high level involvement and just stroll/drive in and out of the S/A legation building in Turkey without so much as a blink is pretty stupid so it also shows a degree of a "flying by the seat of your pants" snatch operation. The idea that Mr Khashoggi would be allowed stroll back out after a chat with the visiting team to tell the world about it is equally silly.

I reckon the silence from the UN quarter of the Admin team is a sign that the ambassador has started her retirement pull-out work full-time and she's been excused from having to give the Admin's understanding of the diplomatic feedback from the S/A and Turks row. Looks like Sec State is handling it directly from the region with the Nat Sec Advisor.

I'd like to get an idea of what one other major player in the region [Israel] is making of the Khasoggi-killing affair as I reckon they'd hope for stability in internal S/A affairs as in their/the best interests of the region, though assuming that Don's son-in-law is the right one to serve as an information conduit might be wrong. I suppose the CIA director in region situ would be the best conduit on the several regional issues in play at the moment.

Jolly Red Giant

Celticfire wrote: »

Well it seems that the Trumpers are right and you are wrong.


http://fortune.com/2017/12/20/gop-tax-bill-cuts-start/

No CF - they and you are wrong - the tax changes take effect in 2018 - but people will not see any benefit from them until they file their federal tax returns in April 2019.

To date - nobody has seen an increase in their pay packet as a result of these tax changes.

Furthermore - not everyone will benefit -
- The personal exemption of $4,150 was eliminated. This will hit, in particular, larger families who could claim this exemption for each person in the family.
- It eliminates many itemised deductions that low paid workers could claim
- It eliminates tax relief for the payment of alimony - a change that will result in a drop in disposable income for a large number of families across all income brackets.
- It changes how local taxes are dealt with in the federal tax returns - a change that will result in significantly increased taxes for workers in states like California and New York (it basically screws people who live in higher income states where Republicans don't get elected).
- It also cut subsidies for health insurance that will result in significant increases in health insurance premiums.

On top of all this - the business tax cuts are permanent - the income tax changes are temporary (and designed to boost support for Trump in 2020 - after which they start reverting to the old system).

The top 20% of earners will see an increase in their income that is more than seven times larger than the bottom 20% of earners.

Trump claimed that the tax changes will lead to increased jobs and wages - but corporations have already stated that they will use the extra money for cash reserves and to increase shareholder dividends and share buybacks, rather than for investment (US corporations are currently sitting on cash reserves of more than $2.3trillion - double the reserves of 2001).

To demonstrate that these cuts have had zero impact on the vast majority of the population - yesterday Trump came out and claimed that next week the GOP would introduce a new tax bill to Congress to implement tax cuts for the 'middle-class' - Trump is engaging in fake news to bolster the GOP vote - Congress is in recess until after the mid-terms, he can't introduce a bill to Congress next week.

everlast75

I am directing this at no one in particular (and I mean that), but has anyone else noticed...

While this thread is very on point and backed up by facts and figure and in the main, the debate, when it does happen, is quite informed - for the most part anyway, but every now and again, a Trump supporter will drop in with a counterpoint not based in fact, and then bugger off when their point is debunked.

Just articulating a bugbear is all..

everlast75

Trump says - https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/889796918615920640

Trump supporters - yeah - Obamacare is evil

Trump says - https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1055077740792160256

Trump supporters - Em... Obamacare is not evil

Me - eh, doesn't that make Trump a ****ing liar?

Trump Supporters - "he's not a liar"

Scaramucci - eh....

https://twitter.com/CNNPolitics/status/1055076926656790528

Pelvis

Captain Obvious wrote: »

George Soros, the bogeyman of the right, targeted with an explosive device. Could have killed anyone. Discovered by an employee. This is the danger in rhetoric from the GOP.


https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45949737

Seems an explosive device has also been sent to the Clinton's home in NY.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/oct/24/clinton-bomb-reports-delivery-home-new-york-hillary-bill-latest

everlast75

Pelvis wrote: »

Seems an explosive device has also been sent to the Clinton's home in NY.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/oct/24/clinton-bomb-reports-delivery-home-new-york-hillary-bill-latest

yeah well, you know - Mitch McConnell couldn't eat in a restaurant, and Jeff Flake was cornered in a lift for 60 seconds, so....

Pelvis

BBC reporting a device was sent to Obama as well.

pixelburp

If this is true, then politics in America is turning a dark, dangerous corner that'll get out of hand very quickly if handled by the wrong people. The worst legislation can be passed in the spirit of 'public safety', or indeed elections have been suspended over weaker excuses.

weisses

Pelvis wrote: »

BBC reporting a device was sent to Obama as well.

Yeah ...The mob on the left is something to worry about apparently :rolleyes: