Donald Trump is the President Mark IV (Read Mod Warning in OP)

robinph

listermint wrote: »

robinph wrote: »

The caravan started because some people decided that it was safer to travel together, then some more people joined them for the same reason, then some more joined, then lots more. There isn't any mystery or investigation needed about it.

I'm sorry but that is utter nonsense. There is no way that 5000 Hondurans up and left for no reason. 95 % of the group yes probably seen this has safety in numbers but the originators of this 'movement' need to be examined. It's all too convenient for a GOP looking for central issues to rally around.

Either by paid instigators or by instigators promised a new life by intermediateries.

This is too much gold to fall into trumps lap at this time in a mid term campaign.

Caravans are not abnormal but the scale of this one needs examination. Convient enemies at the gates

So 4750 of them decided to join together for safety then.

Wegian

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Trump being utterly tone deaf with his tweet this morning. I heard MSNBC saying that all sides who have contributed to the way American political discourse is should own their own actions. Donald trump needs to bloody own his part and what he has done as president of the USA to get them as a country to this point. It was Katy tur who was talking about it btw. Nobody I saw last night on CNN or MSNBC or even ABC were saying that Trump is "wholly" to blame for these incidents and it would ill informed to do that. They were asking for him to at least take responsibility for what he has done. That's hardly a big ask is it ?

Yes but given his approach this is unlikely to happen


From the (intermittent) time I have spent in the US I would see him as being more a symptom of the division than cause. His rise to his position was achieved through capitalizing on a pent-up energy as a result of the adversarial partisan positions which have ratcheted up over several years and magnified through traditional news evolving into more and more sensationalist opinion pieces (think Bill O'Reilly or Don Lemon's bluster)

Water John

Yes Ted Cruz was the original support target. Donald Trump was a mutually arranged substitute. McConnell et al were blocking everything over the previous years. No interest in bipartisan approach. Just stalling Barack Obama was the only result they looked for.

Itssoeasy

Water John wrote: »

Yes Ted Cruz was the original support target. Donald Trump was a mutually arranged substitute. McConnell et al were blocking everything over the previous years. No interest in bipartisan approach. Just stalling Barack Obama was the only result they looked for.

Sure wasn't McConnell on record as saying his goal in 2010 was to make Obama a one term president ?

Rhineshark

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Sure wasn't McConnell on record as saying his goal in 2010 was to make Obama a one term president ?

Yep, in the spirit of bipartisanship.

Here’s John Boehner, the likely speaker if Republicans take the House, offering his plans for Obama’s agenda: “We're going to do everything — and I mean everything we can do — to kill it, stop it, slow it down, whatever we can.”

Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell summed up his plan to National Journal: “The single most important thing we want to achieve is for President Obama to be a one-term president.”

https://www.politico.com/story/2010/10/the-gops-no-compromise-pledge-044311

manual_man

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Sure wasn't McConnell on record as saying his goal in 2010 was to make Obama a one term president ?

What exactly surprises you about that?

Danzy

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Sure wasn't McConnell on record as saying his goal in 2010 was to make Obama a one term president ?

Why would he have wanted it different?

everlast75

manual_man wrote: »

What exactly surprises you about that?

Because if every leader of either party came out and said that from the very start, then there would never be bipartisan deals done.

The guy had just been elected by a majority of Americans (unlike Trump) and had a real mandate (unlike Trump) with years of public service (unlike Trump) and was eminently qualified (unlike Trump). McConnell had an obligation to work with him where possible but instead fought him at every single turn.

The fact that he got Obamacare in the face of such belligerence is a credit to him. Moreso even now with the republicans scrambling around to try and convince folk they actually want to have affordable care for the public, which is a well documented lie of course.

Igotadose

Danzy wrote: »

Why would he have wanted it different?

He can want whatever he wants. As (at the time) Senate minority leader, he had obligation to work with the President and the WH on delivering legislation to benefit the citizens of the US. Drawing this metaphoric line in the sand was legal, but set the tone for the GOP and hence the American public that lasts till today and is currently manifesting as a lunatic attempting to bomb Trump's opposition.

If these pols claim to want to lead, well, lead then. And lead everyone not just who pays them (I know, wishful thinking).

Quin_Dub

Igotadose wrote: »

He can want whatever he wants. As (at the time) Senate minority leader, he had obligation to work with the President and the WH on delivering legislation to benefit the citizens of the US. Drawing this metaphoric line in the sand was legal, but set the tone for the GOP and hence the American public that lasts till today and is currently manifesting as a lunatic attempting to bomb Trump's opposition.

If these pols claim to want to lead, well, lead then. And lead everyone not just who pays them (I know, wishful thinking).

Totally agree.

They chose to simply block everything by default and not on merit and that really was the turning point in the partizan nature of US politics.

Had McConnell/Boehner said something like - "It's our responsibility to ensure that the needs and goals of our voters are met and we will oppose any legislation that we think is contrary to those needs and goals" that would have been 100% fine and absolutely what you expect and want from an opposition party to be honest.

But, that's not what they did - They decided to block and frustrate any and every piece of legislation , not on merit , but purely to stymie Obama and make his life difficult - not caring one bit about whether they were hurting or helping their voters at any stage.

A massive amount of the blame for the situation that US politics finds itself in today can be lain at the feet of Mitch McConnell , he more than any other person has fundamentally damaged the institutions of US government through his partizan activities and utter disregard for anything like morals..

Dohnjoe

That spike in Trump approval ratings is worrying and depressing. A significant number of US voters quite simply back him, ignorance, hypocrisy, lies, bigotry, populism and all

I am out of the loop recently but getting the increasing feeling that the midterms will not be what the Dems expect

Leroy42

It becomes more and more clear that Trump really does represent what a huge amount of Americans see themselves as.

They weren't duped, or stupid, or bought into the hype. What Trump says is what they believe.

That is clear as the GOP has very much backed Trump and it appears that they will possibly gain in the Senate and might even hold the House. Anything short of a total collapse in their vote tells you all you need to know.

They welcome the attacks on the press. They are fed up with women taking a greater role, LGBTQ scares them. They want the old America back. The one that white people could do and say what they want. That men could do and say want they want. That manners didn't matter once it was against someone you didn't like or agree with.

The current America is scared. They are currently. for example, sending 800 troops to the border to 'deal' with a caravan of people currently 1000 miles away and made up of mostly families. Pipe bombs in the post, increase in nuclear proliferation, no deal with Iran? No, their big fear is non white people.

They also see their traditional business advantage being eroded and have taken the view that rather than fight it they are going to crush it. Again, they are scared of competition.

But this is the new America (maybe it was always like this in reality). Inward looking, stuck in past, and scared.

pixelburp

I dunno, taken over the length of his Presidency via:

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings

it doesn't look particularly ... spiky? There has definitely been a resting unpopularity, but constantly wavering within about 5% movement. How that'll translate to the midterms is the bigger question, yet the few races I've looked at (mostly congressional), they've been more about the local personalities than the bigger one in the White House (with exceptions such as the gubernatorial in Florida between Gillum [Dem] vs. DeSantis [Rep], but that has mostly been because DeSantis openly & brazenly embraced the Trump playbook & base).

Hurrache

Dunno how many old skool hip hops fans we have here (or anyone that saw the U2 Popmart Zoo TV tour when they used it as a lead in), but for the first time in a while I heard "Television" by the Disposable Heroes of Hiphoprisy lately and the lyrics could have been written this year such is the relevance, it was original released around 1992

T.V. is
The stomping ground for political candidates
Where bears in the woods
Are chased by Grecian Formula'd
Bald eagles
T.V. is mechanized politic's
Remote control over the masses
Co-sponsored by environmentally safe gases
Watch for the PBS special
It's the perpetuation of the two party system
Where image takes precedence over wisdom
Where sound bite politics are served to
The fastfood culture
Where straight teeth in your mouth
Are more important than the words
That come out of it
Race baiting is the way to get selected
Willie Horton or
Will he not get elected on
Television, the drug of the Nation
Breeding ignorance and feeding radiation

everlast75

Hurrache wrote: »

Dunno how many old skool hip hops fans we have here (or anyone that saw the U2 Popmart tour when they used it as a lead in), but for the first time in a while I heard "Television" by the Disposable Heroes of Hiphoprisy lately and the lyrics could have been written this year such is the relevance, it was original released around 1992

Top tune and spot on

Igotadose

Hurrache wrote: »

Dunno how many old skool hip hops fans we have here (or anyone that saw the U2 Popmart Zoo TV tour when they used it as a lead in), but for the first time in a while I heard "Television" by the Disposable Heroes of Hiphoprisy lately and the lyrics could have been written this year such is the relevance, it was original released around 1992

What's kind of interesting to me, is that the song mentions Willie Horton, who was used by Bush Senior to club Dukakis during the campaign.

That ad was created by Larry McCarthy, who eventually brought Citizen's United to the SCOTUS. Funny how these things are all grouped together.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2012/02/13/attack-dog

Hurrache

That's quite interesting, I never realised that.

Meanwhile, seems that there's an issue with some polling booth software, in Cruz's favour.
https://twitter.com/TXCivilRights/status/1055510080387452929
https://twitter.com/leahmcelrath/status/1055631800083640320

everlast75

Ah Newt Gingrich. What can be said about him that hasn't been said already.

"Gingrich had several extramarital affairs during his first marriage.

In the spring of 1980, Gingrich filed for divorce from Jackie after beginning an affair with Marianne Ginther.

In 1984, Jackie Battley Gingrich told The Washington Post that the divorce was a "complete surprise" to her. According to Jackie, in September 1980, Gingrich and their children visited her while she was in the hospital, recovering from surgery for cancer, and Gingrich wanted to discuss the terms of their divorce."

According to L. H. Carter, Gingrich's campaign treasurer, Gingrich said of his first wife: "She's not young enough or pretty enough to be the wife of the President. And besides, she has cancer."

In 1981, six months after his divorce from his first wife was final, Gingrich wed Marianne Ginther.

In 1993, while still married to Marianne, Gingrich began an affair with House of Representatives staffer Callista Bisek, more than two decades his junior. Gingrich was having this affair even as he led the impeachment of Bill Clinton for perjury related to Clinton's own extramarital affair.

Gingrich filed for divorce from Marianne in 1999, a few months after she had been diagnosed with multiple sclerosis. The marriage produced no children."

Anyway - you will see he is a real low life and hypocrite.

However, he does have moments of inadvertent truth-telling..

When asked about the Democrats maybe taking the power back to investigate Trump and his tax returns, this is what he said..

"Then they'll be trapped into appealing to the Supreme Court, and we'll see whether or not the Kavanaugh fight was worth it."

So there you have it folks, the motive behind sticking that partisan, lying, angry judge on the Supreme Court... just in case you were in any doubt whatsoever.

seamus

16-page ballot, bloody hell.

Ignoring the craziness and falliability of electronic voting, long and complicated ballot papers have no purpose except to make it really difficult for targetted groups to vote.

Leroy42

seamus wrote: »

16-page ballot, bloody hell.

Ignoring the craziness and falliability of electronic voting, long and complicated ballot papers have no purpose except to make it really difficult for targetted groups to vote.

long and complicated ballot papers have purpose to make it really difficult for targetted groups to vote.

Fixed that for you

Leroy42

Hurrache wrote: »

That's quite interesting, I never realised that.

Meanwhile, seems that there's an issue with some polling booth software, in Cruz's favour.
https://twitter.com/TXCivilRights/status/1055510080387452929
https://twitter.com/leahmcelrath/status/1055631800083640320

If that is true, then the whole ballet should be stopped and marked null and void.

I don't understand how Americans are so uncaring about the democratic process.

spacecoyote

Leroy42 wrote: »

If that is true, then the whole ballet should be stopped and marked null and void.

I don't understand how Americans are so uncaring about the democratic process.

I just find the whole concept of suppression, etc... in the US completely bizarre. They try to hold themselves up as some beacon of democracy, then you see this crap, gerrymandering, etc...

Maybe I'm naive, but there are only a couple of places where you hear about these kind of practices:

Countries with Dictatorships
Corrupt Emerging Market Countries
America

I've never heard talk in any other actual democratic developed nation. Its one person, one vote. Yes, voter apathy may be a problem resulting in bad turn-out, but I can't think of cases where active blocks are put in place to stop people voting in any developed nation that holds public elections.

everlast75

suspect package sent to Cory Booker now too...



Without being dramatic, if these packages had of exploded, we would be looking at the synchronised assassination of two former US presidents, a former attorney general, a former secretary of state and a number of US senators, amongst others. Thank **** they were intercepted.

everlast75

And a 12th, sent to James Clapper...

Leroy42

everlast75 wrote: »

suspect package sent to Cory Booker now too...



Without being dramatic, if these packages had of exploded, we would be looking at the synchronised assassination of two former US presidents, a former attorney general, a former secretary of state and a number of US senators, amongst others. Thank **** they were intercepted.

And what has Trump done about it? Blamed CNN and basically said it was their own fault.

everlast75

Leroy42 wrote: »

And what has Trump done about it? Blamed CNN and basically said it was their own fault.

At 3:14am.. like any sane president would do.

Either there is a big story about to break, or the criticism over his rhetoric is starting to affect him*



*Unlikely as that is

seamus

everlast75 wrote: »

Without being dramatic, if these packages had of exploded, we would be looking at the synchronised assassination of two former US presidents, a former attorney general, a former secretary of state and a number of US senators, amongst others. Thank **** they were intercepted.

Conspiracy theorists might be nuts, but they often do a relatively decent amount of analysis which we can steal. The devices themselves are crude, almost cartoon-like in appearance. Allegedly with no obvious way of carrying out a targeted detonation. Addresses were also littered with typos, or sent c/o organisations that have nothing to do with the target.

This would suggest that even if they had reached their targets, the chances of them actually being effective are close to nil.

So it's either intended as a warning, or - more likely - it's the work of a single nutbar who is strictly "reality optional", and built what he thought might work as an IED but without knowing anything about the physics necessary.

Nermal

seamus wrote: »

16-page ballot, bloody hell.

Ignoring the craziness and falliability of electronic voting, long and complicated ballot papers have no purpose except to make it really difficult for targetted groups to vote.

Tripe. The ballot is long because there are many people to vote for. In the US they vote for people we prefer to appoint.

Besides, I thought the party line was that all the Trumpian voters are all morons. Are they both morons and the only voters sophisticated to navigate a 16 page ballot paper?

Leroy42

Nermal wrote: »

Tripe. The ballot is long because there are many people to vote for. In the US they vote for people we prefer to appoint.

Besides, I thought the party line was that all the Trumpian voters are all morons. Are they both morons and the only voters sophisticated to navigate a 16 page ballot paper?

So that excuses the system changing your choice to that of another person? Why, everytime something goes wrong, does a Trump supporter totally avoid the issue and try to start an argument about them and how they are treated?

Nobody claimed they were morons, and it is becoming increasingly clear that Trump supporters are supporting him because of who he is and what he says not despite of it.

That, of course, means that whilst they are not morans they are racist, misogynistic, ignorant, abusive, and against nearly everything that the US has previously stood for.

Water John

Spacecoyote, you're giving away your age, you don't remember the gerrymandering, which was synonomous the elections in NI.
All electronic voting systems should have a simple printout also.