Donald Trump is the President Mark IV (Read Mod Warning in OP)

Water John

Getting dirt on your opponent from US sources within that country would be acceptable behaviour. What is seen as totally abnormal is to look for or get intel on an opponent from a foreign Govn't or agent.
Politicians, on all sides would say, the correct thing to do on being offered such intel, is to immediately contact the FBI and take your orders as how to proceed from them.
Don't allow anyone to gloss over, the fundamental diff between the two. The second is seen as putting the interests of the US, at risk.

mcmoustache

Gbear wrote: »

Why is Shepard Smith permitted to continue working at Fox by the powers that be?

To provide an air of legitimacy.

Gbear wrote: »

It's important that they pretend to balanced and sloganeer about it, but surely actually doing it is of no use to them?

They can point at him(also Wallace and Roberts) and say "We do some news sometimes when we're not making old people angry about mexicans"

Gbear wrote: »

Does he have dirt ona higher up, or are there more actual journalists who aren't shameless prositutes for propaganda behind the scenes than one might think?

3 years ago, I would have called you crazy for suggesting it. Now, all I can say for sure is that I don't know nor does it look like there's anything like that going on. I genuinely think he's there because it makes Fox look like they do news.

mcmoustache

batgoat wrote: »

Oh dear lord, have you seen what has happened in the past 2 years? The man has destroyed the US international reputation. He has caged children, he has attacked the media on a constant basis and contributed nothing of worth. He's just created chaos. That's not a favour, that's creating long term damage to many people's lives.

It looks different if you are Russian, which is fair enough. There's nothing wrong with that as long as we know where people coming from.


I may as well point out that Cheerful is not a troll or some guy taking the piss. He's genuine and gives his own honest opinions. I disagree with a lot of what he says but he argues in good faith.

Gbear

mcmoustache wrote: »

To provide an air of legitimacy.

They can point at him(also Wallace and Roberts) and say "We do some news sometimes when we're not making old people angry about mexicans"


3 years ago, I would have called you crazy for suggesting it. Now, all I can say for sure is that I don't know nor does it look like there's anything like that going on. I genuinely think he's there because it makes Fox look like they do news.

I suppose the question is whether it works.

Fox are obviously divisive, but whether it's an open sluice dumping muck straight down the gobs of the waiting massess who mindlessly agree with everything that is on it, while everyone else sees it for what it is, or whether there's a more gradual spectrum of acceptance among those who do give the station credibility off the back of the veneer of dissent, I have no idea.

Leroy42

Saved the US from HC? And is it worth it to sell your country?

What was actually exposed? What do you think would be different under HC?

And aren't you basically accepting that the systems in place in the US are inadequate to protect you from the wrong people?

So how do you know Trump is ok?

MadYaker

You're wasting your time asking that fella questions and I'm fairly sure he isn't American. I'm surprised that Trump tweet is making waves. Didn't everyone know that already? Have we all forgotten the leaked twitter communication with Wikileaks?

Leroy42

MadYaker wrote: »

You're wasting your time asking that fella questions and I'm fairly sure he isn't American. I'm surprised that Trump tweet is making waves. Didn't everyone know that already? Have we all forgotten the leaked twitter communication with Wikileaks?

The tweet removes any doubt about the meeting, the purpose of the meeting, that Manafort ans Jared knew, that Trump drafted a response which was a lie, tgat Don Jr lied to congress.

Most knew that was probably the case, but this is not only an admittance of it but removes any lines of deniability.

I doubt very much Trump appreciated what he was actually admitting to.

StringerBell

Leroy42 wrote: »

The tweet removes any doubt about the meeting, the purpose of the meeting, that Manafort ans Jared knew, that Trump drafted a response which was a lie, tgat Don Jr lied to congress.

Most knew that was probably the case, but this is not only an admittance of it but removes any lines of deniability.

I doubt very much Trump appreciated what he was actually admitting to.

But you see it doesn't matter, surely they will "clarify" what the President "meant" to say over the next few days and that will be that, business as usual. Carry on, nothing to see here.

MadYaker

Yeah but his twitter account is considered as official statements im pretty sure.

derb12

StringerBell wrote: »

Leroy42 wrote: »

The tweet removes any doubt about the meeting, the purpose of the meeting, that Manafort ans Jared knew, that Trump drafted a response which was a lie, tgat Don Jr lied to congress.

Most knew that was probably the case, but this is not only an admittance of it but removes any lines of deniability.

I doubt very much Trump appreciated what he was actually admitting to.

But you see it doesn't matter, surely they will "clarify" what the President "meant" to say over the next few days and that will be that, business as usual. Carry on, nothing to see here.

They will probably wheel John Dowd out of retirement to take responsibility just as he did for the “lying to the fbi” tweet when trump forgot that he wasn’t supposed to have known what Flynn was guilty of when he fired him. Oopsy!!

They will BS their way through it just like a few days ago when he was just giving Sessions his opinion that he should fire Mueller and not an order via twitter.

2 Scoops

WinnyThePoo wrote: »

.

Otherwise.. You say this happens on both sides, yet completely fail to show some left wing conspiracy.

Disclaimer to mod, he's asked for some examples so I'm posting them.

https://www.vox.com/world/2017/5/19/15561842/trump-russia-louise-mensch

Why liberal conspiracy theories are flourishing in the age of Trump.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/04/08/msnbc-hosts-conspiracy-theory-what-if-putin-planned-the-syrian-chemical-attack-to-help-trump/?utm_term=.b5621c39809d

MSNBC host’s conspiracy theory: What if Putin planned the Syrian chemical attack to help Trump?

And to the point I was originally making about those "rogue" twitter accounts that millions followed being no different than than the Qanon account hysteria. Facebook deemed the largest one "fake news". It had over a million followers.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/04/26/rogue-trump-staffer-site-that-duped-nearly-1m-deemed-fake-by-facebook-amid-fox-news-questions.html

A Facebook spokeswoman confirmed that Facebook deleted the account after Fox News inquiries that flagged it up in the system. "In a review of wider page itself it was determined that the admin was a fake,” she said.

BBC called it out too..

https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-39592010

"Since the US election presidential race, fact checking websites report what seems like an increase in anti-Trump, 'liberal fake news'.

The rise of left-wing, anti-Trump fake news

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/31/upshot/liberals-immigration-children-border-misinformation.html

"Over the weekend, you may have seen a horrifying story: Almost 1,500 migrant children were missing, and feared to be in the hands of human traffickers. The Trump administration lost track of the children, the story went, after separating them from their parents at the border.
The news spread across liberal social media — with the hashtag #Wherearethechildren trending on Twitter — as people demanded immediate action.
But it wasn’t true"


This took me literally 2 minutes to google and put together. You get the idea....

FrostyJack

2 Scoops wrote: »

Disclaimer to mod, he's asked for some examples so I'm posting them.

https://www.vox.com/world/2017/5/19/15561842/trump-russia-louise-mensch

Why liberal conspiracy theories are flourishing in the age of Trump.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/04/08/msnbc-hosts-conspiracy-theory-what-if-putin-planned-the-syrian-chemical-attack-to-help-trump/?utm_term=.b5621c39809d

MSNBC host’s conspiracy theory: What if Putin planned the Syrian chemical attack to help Trump?

And to the point I was originally making about those "rogue" twitter accounts that millions followed being no different than than the Qanon account hysteria. Facebook deemed the largest one "fake news". It had over a million followers.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/04/26/rogue-trump-staffer-site-that-duped-nearly-1m-deemed-fake-by-facebook-amid-fox-news-questions.html

A Facebook spokeswoman confirmed that Facebook deleted the account after Fox News inquiries that flagged it up in the system. "In a review of wider page itself it was determined that the admin was a fake,” she said.

BBC called it out too..

https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-39592010

"Since the US election presidential race, fact checking websites report what seems like an increase in anti-Trump, 'liberal fake news'.

The rise of left-wing, anti-Trump fake news

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/31/upshot/liberals-immigration-children-border-misinformation.html

"Over the weekend, you may have seen a horrifying story: Almost 1,500 migrant children were missing, and feared to be in the hands of human traffickers. The Trump administration lost track of the children, the story went, after separating them from their parents at the border.
The news spread across liberal social media — with the hashtag #Wherearethechildren trending on Twitter — as people demanded immediate action.
But it wasn’t true"


This took me literally 2 minutes to google and put together. You get the idea....

How many of those conspiracy theory items have been pushed on here? I would guess none, whereas Trump's supporters have to believe their conspiracy theories in order to do the mental gymnastics or else they would have to come to terms with the disaster he is, by his own making, not Obama, Clinton, Soros etc. I like the way you cut the last part of the sentence "But it wasn’t true, or at least not the way that many thought", as if to make it sound like it was coming from Infowars. I am pretty sure there is fake news and crackpot theories coming from the left, but it the tiny minority that promote them.

2 Scoops

FrostyJack wrote: »

How many of those conspiracy theory items have been pushed on here?

Millions followed some of those fake rogue accounts and took their word as gospel, that was my original point comparing the same phenomenon as "Qanon". As for the NYT article I linked, I took the first 5 or 6 results from google - I didn't cherry pick it either, if you read further on in the article you'll see they say damning things which I left out.

"The fact that so many Americans readily believed this myth offers a lesson in how partisan polarization colors people’s views on a gut emotional level without many even realizing it."

There have been posters here who've said Putin killed people off to hide the Trump conspiracy, a regular occurrence actually at least during last year when I bothered reading this partisan thread. Confirmation bias is at the root of everything. I was responding to a post asking for specific liberal conspiracy theories and I replied. It's no different on either side, and I was glad to see Vox of all places call it out.

FrostyJack

2 Scoops wrote: »

There have been posters here who've said Putin killed people off to hide the Trump conspiracy, a regular occurrence actually at least during last year when I bothered reading this partisan thread. Confirmation bias is at the root of everything. I was responding to a post asking for specific liberal conspiracy theories and I replied. It's no different on either side, and I was glad to see Vox of all places call it out.

The thing is there is a difference, I follow a good bit of the America media throughout the week, including social media like Facebook, and I never come across any of the things you describe as mainstream on the Left, things like "this will bring Trump down" are just clickbait or wishful thinking, go on any Right wing pro-Trump site and it is "Uranium One", "Pizzagate" "Deepstate" nonsense pedaled 24/7, so it is very different on both sides. I am sure there are plenty gullible people on the left who will swallow anything, especially if it is something they want to hear.

LuckyLloyd

batgoat wrote: »

Further foot in mouth moments for Trump. He just basically landed Don Jnr in it for collusion.
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1026084333315153924?s=19

How could he survive this?

Igotadose

One of the copy-and-paste types that posts pro-Trump things here, a few weeks ago posted a link to a law professor's paper on how Mueller wasn't a legitimate special prosecutor, overreaching his mandate, etc etc. This apparently resulted in a court challenge based on the supreme court opinion in a related case during the Clinton impeachment days. Well, a judge has ruled on the merits of the recent court challenge, and basically shot it down, saying Mueller is not overreaching. https://edition.cnn.com/2018/08/04/politics/judge-beryl-howell-mueller-appointment-trump-subpoena/index.html

So, keep up the good work. Oh, the article mentions 32 charged people, not that long ago it was 19. Lots of witches being caught in that witch hunt

Hurrache

On the whole Russian collusion thing, this is what they're up against, a photo taking from the Ohio rally

dudara

^^ that whole thing just astounds me. Republicans and Democrats are both Americans. Both want what is best for their country and both sides “love” their country. In any kind of rational world, your fellow American would be more important that external influences, even if you didn’t agree with them politically. At the end of the day you’re both American, right?

Granted, this hated seems to exist far more on one side than the other, but even so, this partisanship is destroying the US.

Panrich

Hurrache wrote: »

On the whole Russian collusion thing, this is what they're up against, a photo taking from the Ohio rally

That is amazing. The way that people can be brainwashed like this is staggering.

Igotadose

In somewhat good news, a few more pro-Trump GOP candidates are losing their primaries. https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/03/another-republican-house-incumbent-loses-a-primary-for-a-higher-office.html?recirc=taboolainternal

Unfortunately, Marsha Blackburn now has a chance to be in the Senate. That'll be awful should it happened, one of the worst congressional swampdwellers in memory.

But, at least Mark Sanford's gone again.

jooksavage

Hurrache wrote: »

On the whole Russian collusion thing, this is what they're up against, a photo taking from the Ohio rally

In the "good old days" that some of these folks pine for, wearing stuff like that would have landed them in prison and seen them branded traitors to their nation.

Christy42

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

batgoat wrote: »

Further foot in mouth moments for Trump. He just basically landed Don Jnr in it for collusion.
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1026084333315153924?s=19

How could he survive this?

I don't get it. Didn't Don Jnr admit all this himself last year. I mean I get how it is big I just don't get how it is new. Even 2 scoops is commenting on how it is the first evidence of collusion but I thought we had that last year with this same story?

Given everyone but me is on the same page with this I figure I am wrong but not sure why.

aloyisious

Christy42 wrote: »

I don't get it. Didn't Don Jnr admit all this himself last year. I mean I get how it is big I just don't get how it is new. Even 2 scoops is commenting on how it is the first evidence of collusion but I thought we had that last year with this same story?

Given everyone but me is on the same page with this I figure I am wrong but not sure why.

Possibly in that Don told the media on Air Force 1 that he wrote the script for what Don Jnr released to the media about the meeting with the Russians and now is, apparently making fake-news again about what he said on AF1. It, for the moment, is leaving Jnr hanging in the wind.

Leroy42

Christy42 wrote: »

I don't get it. Didn't Don Jnr admit all this himself last year. I mean I get how it is big I just don't get how it is new. Even 2 scoops is commenting on how it is the first evidence of collusion but I thought we had that last year with this same story?

Given everyone but me is on the same page with this I figure I am wrong but not sure why.

There is a good article on the reason for why it is such a change (can't find it now). It deals with the Nixon tapes. When reviewed now, through the prism of how SHS would deal with it, they could have argued that the tapes actually meant the opposite of what they actually meant (read would should be wouldn't).

Trump and SHS eet all have proved to be incredibly good at this. Taking everything he says to mean whatever they want it to mean.

So even though anybody following the Trump Tower thing was pretty certain what happened, Trump could continue to deny it. Any documents that show that it was known about the intel were lying, false, fake news, misunderstood, out of context, written by a coffee boy.

Look at the recent treatment of Cohen. He has gone from being Trump closest aid in terms of business dealings to being a pathological liar and never to be trusted with anything.

But this tweet removes all of that. Trump himself has admitted that his son met with Russians, along with Jared and Manafort, to try to get illegally obtained intel on HC. The argument is now down to whether that is in fact illegal or not.

But the rest of the argument is now over. There can be no more discussion about adoption programs. And the question must now be asked, what price were the Russians asking for in return for the intel

The question now need to be asked what the price sought was, and what price they would have paid? Because clearly they were prepared to pay something (whether money or something else). What price is too high for POTUS to pay to win? Doesn't that now mean that Putin now knows he can be bought?

Some really serious, deeply concerning questions. As one headline I saw this morning said, if this stuff had come out in tapes or official WH papers, rather than Tweets, Trump would already be indicted.

Captain Obvious

Christy42 wrote: »

I don't get it. Didn't Don Jnr admit all this himself last year. I mean I get how it is big I just don't get how it is new. Even 2 scoops is commenting on how it is the first evidence of collusion but I thought we had that last year with this same story?

Given everyone but me is on the same page with this I figure I am wrong but not sure why.

His whole thing up until now has been to shout "no collusion" whenever he could. He has now admitted there was collusion and it involved his son. This is a big change in approach. It was expected though. His people have been pushing hard on the "collusion is not a crime" narrative the last few weeks.

robinph

Previously we had Don Jr wearing a witches costume and Don Snr complaining about there being a witch hunt going on and that they should leave him alone. Now Don Snr has also put on a witches costume and jumped on the back of the broom.

How much longer will he be allowed to get away with complaining about the witch hunt as more and more of his team appear in pointy hats and throw extra frogs and newts into the cauldron?

B0jangles

I wonder if Trump senior is actively throwing junior to the wolves because their identical names might make it harder for prosecutors to establish who exactly is being talked to/about in any email trails or taped discussions of illegal actions?

WinnyThePoo

2 Scoops wrote: »

Disclaimer to mod, he's asked for some examples so I'm posting them.



This took me literally 2 minutes to google and put together. You get the idea....

The only conspiracy theories that where posted on this thread, came from your keyboard. That's the point.

Inquitus

WinnyThePoo wrote: »

The only conspiracy theories that where posted on this thread, came from your keyboard. That's the point.

Indeed, he's why the ignore button is there.