Donald Trump is the President Mark IV (Read Mod Warning in OP)

serfboard

duploelabs wrote: »

As it's oft said, Trump may say he's not a racist. But his racist supporters believes he is

There was a similar thing said about Fox News: "Not racist, but No. 1 with racists!"

Christy42

Rhineshark wrote: »

pixelburp wrote: »

I'm not worried about the base, I'm worried about the political precedent and constitutional crisis that could ensue if - and obviously as I mentioned it's a big if - Trump decides to play the same tune and start contesting the validity of the election. Of equal worry would be the reaction of Ryan, McConnell and the various commentators like Hannity; effectively being asked to either kowtow to the paranoid ravings of their nominal leader and further undermine democracy, or go against the President and accept the results. Or indeed, do both and again try to leverage the likes of Kobach with some pony commission.

*If* the Dems win the House (and I am not confident due to the level of voter suppression and gerrymandering), Trump would be a fool to have it investigated. The red flags will be Republican ones, especially in states like Georgia, Texas, Kansas. And if the Dems actually have a voice by then, they could make it very difficult for the GOP to produce enough evidence of voter fraud while covering all of the GOP shenanigans.


If the Dems don't win the House, I suspect it might have been their last chance. If this crap works in the midterms, they will go all out even more blatantly in 2020. And the Dems will be impotent.

Trump will absolutely question the validity of the election if the Democrats win the house. He has already started to question with his dog whistle of illegal voting.

He won't have it investigated. He will just go on about and giving out about his hands are tied.

everlast75

serfboard wrote: »

There was a similar thing said about Fox News: "Not racist, but No. 1 with racists!"

https://twitter.com/farhip/status/1059512583814856706?s=19

Fox has decided not to air "that" ad again.

That's...... FOX!!!!!

So - Duke endorses it, Fox has a problem with it.

Where are the posters who say Trump is not racist!?!??

Captain Obvious

everlast75 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/farhip/status/1059512583814856706?s=19

Fox has decided not to air "that" ad again.

That's...... FOX!!!!!

So - Duke endorses it, Fox has a problem with it.

Where are the posters who say Trump is not racist!?!??

Doesn't it also contain a blatant lie?

Igotadose

In other news, the Pentagon's saying the troop deployment will cost $220mn, wasted as there really isn't much for the troops to do. It's o.k., there's no budget issues and the troops will keep busy. Hopefully they'll keep the militiathugs under control.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/11/troop-deployment-border-cost-estimate-no-threat.html

(I liked the recent Trevor Noah skit, which included that there were more troops, 5000, than migrants, estimated at 4000, and they should have an enormous game of "Red Rover", whoever makes it through gets citizenship).

Igotadose

Captain Obvious wrote: »

Doesn't it also contain a blatant lie?

Isn't it from Trump? Why bother asking? :P

Itssoeasy

Captain Obvious wrote: »

Doesn't it also contain a blatant lie?

Hardly a surprise really if it did. A bigger surprise would be if the ad was completely factual or at least not outright blatant lies.

Rhineshark

Captain Obvious wrote: »

Doesn't it also contain a blatant lie?

Does it contain any actual truths?

I think the lie you are referring to though is that guy Trump claims was released by Dems to go be criminal. He was released by Joe bloody Arpaio under Bush.

I think there was a second release as well though but I can't remember the guy's name to look it up.

Eric Cartman

kilns wrote: »

If the Dems do not gain control of the house things will get alot worse, Trump and Reps will go into overdrive passing legislation that would take years to reverse, even things like increasing a president's term in office etc it could happen..

What legislation have they passed that is 'bad' or has made things this 'bad' so far ?

dr.fuzzenstein

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Hardly a surprise really if it did. A bigger surprise would be if the ad was completely factual or at least not outright blatant lies.

Ha, that would be a real thigh-slapper.
His campaign more akin to trash talking before a wrestling match, absolutely nothing of substance is to be expected.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/05/media/nbc-trump-immigration-ad/index.html

When asked about the offensive nature of the ad, Trump said, "Well, a lot of things are offensive. Your questions are offensive a lot of the times."

Trump should have been a pro wrestler.
It actually fits perfectly. If you think of him in those terms, he starts making sense, not in a political sense mind you.
He analysed what Americans like. Football, monster trucks, NASCAR and pro wrestling.
He simply modelled his act after those and let fly.
But the divisiveness and offensiveness is all his.
I bet there is beer and hot dogs at his rallies. No really, I guarantee it. Right beside the merchandise stands which I bet my right nut are there.

everlast75

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1059470847751131138?s=19


Voter intimidation now.


Ffs - stink of desperation

Eric Cartman

everlast75 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1059470847751131138?s=19


Voter intimidation now.


Ffs - stink of desperation

ahh come off it, an increase in vigilance by the police is not voter intimidation.

batgoat

Eric Cartman wrote: »

ahh come off it, an increase in vigilance by the police is not voter intimidation.

Except the thing is voter fraud is not viewed as an issue at all as there's never been evidence of significant voter fraud. He's basically feeding his fans with the conspiracies that they adore. The Southern Strategy and attempting to prevent people from voting is a far greater problem. :rolleyes:

prawnsambo

batgoat wrote: »

Except the thing is voter fraud is not viewed as an issue at all as there's never been evidence of significant voter fraud. He's basically feeding his fans with the conspiracies that they adore. The Southern Strategy and attempting to prevent people from voting is a far greater problem. :rolleyes:

On the other hand, there's been reports of changes of over 20 polling places in Devin Nunes' district. Among them was the one his opponent was supposed to vote in.

pixelburp

Eric Cartman wrote: »

ahh come off it, an increase in vigilance by the police is not voter intimidation.

There's not a single shred of evidence of any major voter fraud in the United States - IIRC bar the small numbers & edge cases to be expected in any functioning bureaucracy. Remember this is the same Trump that claimed 'millions' of illegals voted for Hillary, then found nothing to back this up.

Now gerrymandering, that's voter fraud in action, albeit caused by those running the constituencies rather than those attempting to vote within them.

everlast75

Eric Cartman wrote: »

ahh come off it, an increase in vigilance by the police is not voter intimidation.

Says the guy who doesn't see a problem with tax evasion...

Eric Cartman

everlast75 wrote: »

Says the guy who doesn't see a problem with tax evasion...

attack the post, not the poster.

everlast75

Eric Cartman wrote: »

attack the post, not the poster.

That is your opinion.

Your comment should be considered in the context of that view.

You don't seem to have a problem with those in power breaking laws (in this case voter intimidation) or flouting tax liabilities (your support of Trump).

However, you do have a problem empathising with lower classes or minorities, whether it be regarding social welfare payments or their democratic right to vote.

Seems relevant to me.

Celticfire

everlast75 wrote: »

That is your opinion.

Your comment should be considered in the context of that view.

You don't seem to have a problem with those in power breaking laws (in this case voter intimidation) or flouting tax liabilities (your support of Trump).

However, you do have a problem empathising with lower classes or minorities, whether it be regarding social welfare payments or their democratic right to vote.

Seems relevant to me.

You really do seem to be loosing the run of yourself. Voter intimidation my a***.

Eric Cartman

everlast75 wrote: »

That is your opinion.

Your comment should be considered in the context of that view.

You don't seem to have a problem with those in power breaking laws (in this case voter intimidation) or flouting tax liabilities (your support of Trump).

However, you do have a problem empathising with lower classes or minorities, whether it be regarding social welfare payments or their democratic right to vote.

Seems relevant to me.

"those in power" tax evading, in terms of individual tax evasion I can guarantee with an absolute certainty that minorities (especially certain more mobile ones) do far more of it than any TD or businessman on this isle would dare attempt.

pixelburp

You can debate whether it's intimidation or not, but the spectre of illegal voting claimed by Trump & co. is very definitely, provably fictitious; you'd want to be spectacularly naive not to read between the lines of obvious dirty tricks and foul play, in attempting to at least discredit the validity of a potential Democrat friendly result.

It can't be emphasised enough: Trump publicly refused to admit if he'd accept the results of the 2016 - and even after winning, attempted to manufacture controversy over apparent millions of non-existent illegal votes via Kris Kobach (a man with his own checkered past). Lordy the gerrymandering at play should be enough to convince - throw in intentionally strict voter IDs, the arbitrary closing of various polling stations in some constituencies , and how can you not reason it an attempt to muddy the waters?

batgoat

Eric Cartman wrote: »

"those in power" tax evading, in terms of individual tax evasion I can guarantee with an absolute certainty that minorities (especially certain more mobile ones) do far more of it than any TD or businessman on this isle would dare attempt.

Tax evasion by wealthy tends to amount to a fairly large sum actually. It's about 5% of the gdp of the UK in terms of the lost tax. About 3% for the US. Some deliberate crimes are okay apparently..

https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2013/sep/27/tax-evasion-how-much-does-it-cost-a-country

everlast75

Celticfire wrote: »

You really do seem to be loosing the run of yourself. Voter intimidation my a***.

Voter intimidation is real.

Voter fraud very much less so.

Do the research and then you'll find out who is talking out of their ass.

everlast75

And the idea that Trump wants a fair and impartial election is positively one of the most ridiculous ideas I have heard in this 2 year cluster**** that is his presidency. Its actually laugh out loud funny

Celticfire

everlast75 wrote: »

Voter intimidation is real.

Voter fraud very much less so.

Do the research and then you'll find out who is talking out of their ass.

You're trying to make out that a tweet that basically states that Illegal activity won't be tolerated is somehow intimidation and illegal in itself . But if there's no voter fraud then why would anyone be intimidated?

Four women in ‘voter fraud ring’ arrested. They targeted seniors on city’s north side.

Members of an organized voter fraud ring have been arrested and indicted on charges they targeted and, in one case stole, the votes of elderly voters on Fort Worth’s north side.

Four people were arrested — Leticia Sanchez, Leticia Sanchez Tepichin, Maria Solis and Laura Parra — after being indicted on 30 felony counts of voter fraud, according to a statement from the Texas Attorney General’s Office.

These people allegedly were paid to target older voters on the north side “in a scheme to generate a large number of mail ballots and then harvest those ballots for specific candidates in 2016,” the statement read.

An example of voter fraud carried out only recently.

VonZan

everlast75 wrote: »

Voter intimidation is real.

Voter fraud very much less so.

Do the research and then you'll find out who is talking out of their ass.

So voter fraud doesn't exist? Both exist and are hard to quantify. For example in the US some consider having to display a form of voter ID as voter intimidation or suppression whereas this is common in almost all first world countries.

Between gerrymandering, voter fraud and suppression it's hard to really call the US a democracy. One of the tickets for the presidential election was rigged.

Fraud is a tradition in some parts of the country, Georgia being the most obvious example. From people selling votes to hiding ballot papers the US is still in a bit of mess in terms of serving it's people.

Manic Moran

Leroy42 wrote: »

It really is a very important election. One can argue that people were looking for change with Trump, and boy did they get it. And many people really believed that many of his more outlandish statements were merely political gaming. But after nearly 2 years on the job, it is clear to everyone just who and what Trump is.

So whilst in a normal election, people can and do brush aside the more unlikable things about a candidate or party on the basis that the overall is better, it is very clear the direction that Trump and the GOP are taking the US.

So anyone who votes for a GOP candidate can no longer use the excuse that they weren't deplorable or giving tacit acceptance of racism and bullying. It is fine to argue that Trump brings other things to the table (SCOTUS etc) but one cannot vote for a GOP candidate in this election without being fully aware that it is essentially a vote in support of Trump and how he is doing the job.

It is clear that Trump has no intention of trying to be POTUS for the US, he is only interested in the portion of the US that supports him. A man that has openly tried to tear down the courts, the FBI, the CIA. The political system, their allies. A man that has stood idly by when school shootings continue, when the largest domestic gun attack in US history was carried out, when he blamed the media for the recent mail bombings, when he claimed it was the Jewish peoples own fault for getting killed for not having armed security.

This is the man that people are giving their support to. Make no mistake, if the Dems do not take control of at least the house, it is giving Trump a green light to not only continue to be increase his approach.

I will agree with you only partially. Yes, the Ds will take the House. Yes, there is something of a referendum on Trump going on.

However, Trump is not on the ballot. It’s John Doe, Republican, against John Smith, Democrat, with their own policies. If you hate Trump and dislike how John Doe has been cosying up to him, then your dislike for Trump may well help you not vote for him. (Maybe vote L or something if you can’t stand the D, but not vote for the R). That will help the D candidate, as will people who are mobilized just because of the reaction to Trump. That proportion, however, is not as big as those who are still going to weigh the pros and cons of John Smith before choosing to cast a vote for him. It is a mistake, I think, to view this election purely as a Trump referendum, if Rs keep or lose the house,

At least after tomorrow we will stop being bombarded with advertisements, SMS messages, recorded calls, and survey calls...

As another example of the perfidity of those in charge of elections, California’s Prop 6 is a case in point.

It started a couple years ago when the D supermajority in CA raised the tax of petrol yet again. They knew there would be a fight based on past experience (we like our cars, it’s why Governor Davis was recalled) and basically had to bribe the last D to vote in favour of it. This led to two immediate results.

Firstly, that D politician was immediately recalled in a special election called by the voters. Secondly, an initiative was immediately started to put into the ballot a proposition to repeal the gas tax. This became Prop 6.

However, the government in Sacramento gets to say what the exact wording is, not the voters. So, Prop 6 on the ballot does not say “repeal the gas tax”, which would almost certainly pass handily,it instead is a proposition to repeal road repair and transportation funding. Much less likely to pass, especially given the horrendous state of California’s roads. (Which are horrible despite our having the highest gas taxes in the nation, so we’re not sure the benefit of even more).

Rjd2

Manic Moran wrote: »

However, Trump is not on the ballot. It’s John Doe, Republican, against John Smith, Democrat, with their own policies. It is a mistake, I think, to view this election purely as a Trump referendum, if Rs keep or lose the house,

.

While technically correct, Trump due to his rhetoric regarding the caravan and immigration and his "misjudged" reactions to all the recent terrorism events when it would have made so much sense to take a step back and act civil has pretty much made tomorrow a vote on him.

He could have spoke now and then about the caravan, but the constant over the top stuff has been cat nip for the left, ideally his message should have been non stop on the economy, those voters who are worried about immigration were in the bag long time ago ffs, the soft Trumpers and "RINOS" will not have enjoyed the last few weeks.

Trump will lose the house and for his sake he is going to have to understand that if around in 2020, he won't be blessed to run against such an unlikable person as Clinton, he needs to understand how much of the country he is alienating with his dog whistles. FFS when Fox decide your advertisement is to racist, that should be a wake up call.

Remember a key reason Kav got confirmed was George Bush ( Who Trump loathes) going to bat for him, he was constantly on the phone to the likes of Susan Collins when she was wavering while Trump was mocking her. :rolleyes:

vetinari

Trump and the Republican party are pretty much as one at this point.
A vote for a Republican candidate is a vote for Trump.
He has even said this repeatedly himself.

Like Leroy42 mentioned, there's no gap anymore.
You vote Republican, you're saying you're okay with his racism and xenophobia.
And to be fair to him, most of his supporters are.

Clinton's biggest mistake was backing away from the deplorables comment.
You don't win elections by persuading voters, you do by getting your base vote out.
Backing away from the obvious statement that voting for a racist is well deplorable made her look weak.

Dog Man Star

vetinari wrote: »

Trump and the Republican party are pretty much as one at this point.
A vote for a Republican candidate is a vote for Trump.
He has even said this repeatedly himself.

Like Leroy42 mentioned, there's no gap anymore.
You vote Republican, you're saying you're okay with his racism and xenophobia.
And to be fair to him, most of his supporters are.

Clinton's biggest mistake was not backing away from the deplorables comment.
You don't win elections by persuading voters, you do by getting your base vote out.
Backing away from the obvious statement that voting for a racist is well deplorable made her look weak.

She did get 2,868,686 votes more than Trump, lest we forget.