Donald Trump is the President Mark IV (Read Mod Warning in OP)

Leroy42

Manic Moran wrote: »

Notice how you refer to one as “an act of a hostile power” and the other as “a crime”.

There are rules which cover the first one. We in the US do a lot of telling of our troops to shoot people in other countries, after all.

However, I am not saying that we should gleefully invite Russia to influence the US system. I am saying that the Russian influence is inevitable unless steps are taken which nobody seems willing to talk about, such as making the use of hacked information, or unattributable sources, etc, illegal, which comes with its own kettle of fish. Given the Russians will do what they do regardless, we have to focus on what we can control: What do -we- do as a result of such influence. Do we change our behavior? Do we change our policies to suit Russia in exchange? If yes, problem. If not, no problem.

Thats all fine and dandy, but you are ignoring the elephant in the room. Its not about stopping what could happen, its about dealing with what did happen.

And when you say that steps need to be taken, fine, what has Trump done to initiate those steps? That is his job, one could argue that it should almost be his priority.

But he is too busy tweeting about walls and calling sports people stupid.

listermint

Leroy42 wrote: »

Thats all fine and dandy, but you are ignoring the elephant in the room. Its not about stopping what could happen, its about dealing with what did happen.

And when you say that steps need to be taken, fine, what has Trump done to initiate those steps? That is his job, one could argue that it should almost be his priority.

But he is too busy tweeting about walls and calling sports people stupid.

Manics gone from being luke warm trump to full hot trump.

Weird turn of events considering his people's antics with the VA.


It's like a victim defending an abuser because they are so good to them...

Cheerful Spring

Trump denied collusion and then admits it has happened on his twitter account. So you got to wonder why else could he be lying about? I don't know if you can trust anything he says anymore. What really going on with North Korean negotiations are they on the same page or is Trump lying about it? NK seems to be dismantling sites, but maybe they are not it hard to tell what they have agreed on and when?

Christy42

Manic Moran wrote: »

Notice how you refer to one as “an act of a hostile power” and the other as “a crime”.

There are rules which cover the first one. We in the US do a lot of telling of our troops to shoot people in other countries, after all.

However, I am not saying that we should gleefully invite Russia to influence the US system. I am saying that the Russian influence is inevitable unless steps are taken which nobody seems willing to talk about, such as making the use of hacked information, or unattributable sources, etc, illegal, which comes with its own kettle of fish. Given the Russians will do what they do regardless, we have to focus on what we can control: What do -we- do as a result of such influence. Do we change our behavior? Do we change our policies to suit Russia in exchange? If yes, problem. If not, no problem.

It is an interesting problem going forward and a tough one to defend. Places around the world need to tighten up how candidates get dirt on an opponent due to Russia's increasingly aggressive online presence. This is something that needs to be co ordinated across intelligence services as well as they would have the best view of what the exact nature of the threats.

I disagree that the above has much to do with the current scenario where there is little doubt that Trump jnr and co. knew they were dealing with the Russians. Keep in mind that Trump has done his utmost to defend the Russian's to the hilt in all of this and has generally avoided his insulting style when dealing with Putin (only Putin and Stormy seem to get away with this that I can tell). He has also done his best to discredit the investigation which has helped to show there is a serious issue that needs to be considered here.

I had presumed that not reporting being offered hacked information (or information you have reason to have come from a hack) was already a violation. I can't see how that would open a kettle of fish. How is that not already a thing? I guess there is the issue of what to do with the information afterwards

Cheerful Spring

everlast75 wrote: »

I'm looking forward to hearing from the Trump supporters on here, who were extremely anxious ito insist that Trump was not racist, that he "didn't mean" legal immigrants when he made certain remarks.


Anyway, i was expecting the NBC tapes of the apprentice in the Summer Zervos matter to be quite the gut punch to the presidency. I wasn't expecting it to come from a different angle


https://twitter.com/FrankConniff/status/1027306017195999237?s=19

It was obvious Trump was a sexist and racist before the election. He has one black member in his cabinet no Hispanic it clear as day he prefers being around white people doing his work. And Sexism is nothing new he cheated on his wife multiple times with porn stars. He doesn't cheat with women who are sophisticated he had sex with a woman who has sex on video.


People are saying Frank Conniff was just being sarcastic and sources are saying the tapes contain everyday chatter. Trump is definitely a closet racist he tries to hide it but his words and actions tell a different story.

listermint

Wonder what fox news would have to say about this type of legal migration


https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/09/nyregion/melania-trumps-parents-become-us-citizens.html

Manic Moran

I had presumed that not reporting being offered hacked information (or information you have reason to have come from a hack) was already a violation. I can't see how that would open a kettle of fish. How is that not already a thing? I guess there is the issue of what to do with the information afterwards

No, it's not a violation. The use of illegally obtained information is a celebrated practice in the press, going back at least to the Pentagon Papers. The act of hacking/stealing/leaking is illegal. The publication of this information by lawful means is not unlawful, even if the recipient knows it is the result of unlawful activity, it comes under freedom of speech. See US Supreme Court Case Bartnicki v. Vopper (2001).

He has also done his best to discredit the investigation which has helped to show there is a serious issue that needs to be considered here.

Agreed, and I fully support the continued investigation. My beef is with the conclusions people are making as to what the end goal of the investigation should be. It's a larger question than just Trump (and if he did something illegal, then impeach his ass). I don't think anyone is considering the larger ramifications. Today, it's Trump openly accepting Russian help. Tomorrow...? We should be considering not only 'what happened', but 'what can happen'. The last election is over. We may be focusing on "what happened in 2016?", but I'll guarantee you the Russians are thinking "what can we do in 2020?"

Christy42

Manic Moran wrote: »

I had presumed that not reporting being offered hacked information (or information you have reason to have come from a hack) was already a violation. I can't see how that would open a kettle of fish. How is that not already a thing? I guess there is the issue of what to do with the information afterwards

No, it's not a violation. The use of illegally obtained information is a celebrated practice in the press, going back at least to the Pentagon Papers. The act of hacking/stealing/leaking is illegal. The publication of this information by lawful means is not unlawful, even if the recipient knows it is the result of unlawful activity, it comes under freedom of speech. See US Supreme Court Case Bartnicki v. Vopper (2001).

He has also done his best to discredit the investigation which has helped to show there is a serious issue that needs to be considered here.

Agreed, and I fully support the continued investigation. My beef is with the conclusions people are making as to what the end goal of the investigation should be. It's a larger question than just Trump (and if he did something illegal, then impeach his ass). I don't think anyone is considering the larger ramifications. Today, it's Trump openly accepting Russian help. Tomorrow...? We should be considering not only 'what happened', but 'what can happen'. The last election is over. We may be focusing on "what happened in 2016?", but I'll guarantee you the Russians are thinking "what can we do in 2020?"

As long as the information is reported as being from a hacked source and all information passed over to the FBI I don't have a massive issue with them printing it. Not sure it would do much good to stop it given it would appear in RT anyway.

The main issue would be to ensure there is pressure on all campaigns to call out any such attackers. If they get punished each time they will stop. This would have to be public as opposed to legal pressure.

Given their main weapons appear to be hacking and bots most of the work will have to be done by intelligence agencies. You can't stop RT from publishing and you can't shut down a troll farm located in Moscow.

Legally I think you can just take steps to ensure campaigns have to report dodgy behaviour when they see it. Same with the press.

Certainly this has already been an effect of the investigations as Europeans were better prepared in their elections after seeing what happened in the states. I think that part of the investigation is done. Trump may have denied the Russian collusion for a while but the rest of the world got on with it. They know what Russia was trying to do. The only question seems to be if there was buy in from Trump himself.

everlast75

Manic Moran wrote: »

The last election is over. We may be focusing on "what happened in 2016?", but I'll guarantee you the Russians are thinking "what can we do in 2020?"

In terms of "jumping to conclusions", to be fair, has he helped himself at all. Reluctant to impose sanctions, failure to criticise, secret meetings. C'mon, you'd want to be one of the world's worst sceptics.

And as for the remainder of your post, you'd want to be thinking about 2018, and ask yourself, what has Trump and the republican party done to protect the electorate in the midterms?

For Forks Sake

listermint wrote: »

Wonder what fox news would have to say about this type of legal migration


https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/09/nyregion/melania-trumps-parents-become-us-citizens.html

For every situation, there's one of his past tweets :rolleyes:

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/925860866767163393

StringerBell

It's such a surreal time, his stance on chain migration and the in laws using chain migration to become citizens is just another example of the hypocrisy that runs through almost everything he does.

pixelburp

So I see with Trump having incessantly rabbited on about a "Space Force", the DoD is finally going to compile a report into establishing such a Force, release it to Congress for approval. As far as I can see there are no details, no hints about what "Space Force" is going to involve, because let's not forget it's a Donald Trump idea and he's not a details kind of person. No doubt this report will cost much time and money.

I think it was Manic Moran who pointed out that technically there's already a similar branch in the military forces, so this announcement just stinks of a sop to the President so he might shut up about a Space Force. Stuff like this really does convince me he's a man-child, no fooling, no 'derangement' - I genuinely believe he has mentally regressed when you watch his speeches about "Space Force!". If I recall, 'space' was agreed through international agreement to remain outside the jurisdiction or claim of one nation, so it's more likely to be "Low Orbit Force", or Reagan's Star Wars all over again.

Nox

All the commotion about President Donald J Trump's Space Force is just noise.  In the 1940's there was the same blather when it came to the formation of the United States Air Force.  The US Army got all upset because the 'Air Corps' was required to support ground troops and blah, blah, blah.  1947 rolls around and bingo ... the USAF is born.  And magically it functioned well in supporting US/UN forces in Korea.

Now 70+ years later we get the same old stuff, but it's just a different day.  But there is a new twist this time ... President Donald J Trump.  The entire MSM press and the TAD (Trump Anxiety Disorder) crowd have yet another issue to get apoplectic about.  The DOD can work out the details ... it is after all a staff duty ... and the POTUS can approve or alter.  Let us not forget that there is a retired 4 star serving as Chief of Staff who I think really has a pretty good idea about the function of and organizational requirements of the US military.

The argument about 'star wars' and peaceful space is idiotic.  Some folks need to use their preferred internet search engine and take a look at what is already circling overhead ... and ... which countries/regimes those item/s are from.  Another small point for those who can only partially remember history ... the 'peaceful use of space' concept was alive and well when there were only two players in space.

President Donald J Trump is way ahead and a real leader in providing for the future.

Captain Obvious

Manic Moran wrote: »

Notice how you refer to one as “an act of a hostile power” and the other as “a crime”.

Yes I purposely did so to highlight to you the fundamental difference in the two of them. One is an attack on the nation, the other is not.

everlast75

Space Force is back again as a distraction from the current issue of the Manafort trial.

It only ever shows up when Trump and Friends want the focus of whatever particular shytestorm is brewing in the presidency.

Prosecution is wrapping up today. Defence should be done by Tuesday. Verdict by Wednesday morning

Interestingly, it was revealed that Gates is still co-operating with the Government. I would say he has plenty of juicy info on Manafort while he was on the Trump team and into the transition, as Gates was there after Manafort left!

relax carry on

Nox wrote: »

President Donald J Trump is way ahead and a real leader in providing for the future.

Thank you for the genuine laugh the above line gave me this morning.

The only people Trump is providing a future for is Trump, his financial backers, Russian supporters and accidentally those people in the US who support his racist, misogynistic, simplistic view of the world. Historians and political commentators will be writing volumes about Trump and his rise for decades.

mcmoustache

Nox wrote: »

All the commotion about President Donald J Trump's Space Force is just noise.  In the 1940's there was the same blather when it came to the formation of the United States Air Force.  The US Army got all upset because the 'Air Corps' was required to support ground troops and blah, blah, blah.  1947 rolls around and bingo ... the USAF is born.  And magically it functioned well in supporting US/UN forces in Korea.

Now 70+ years later we get the same old stuff, but it's just a different day.  But there is a new twist this time ... President Donald J Trump.  The entire MSM press and the TAD (Trump Anxiety Disorder) crowd have yet another issue to get apoplectic about.  The DOD can work out the details ... it is after all a staff duty ... and the POTUS can approve or alter.  Let us not forget that there is a retired 4 star serving as Chief of Staff who I think really has a pretty good idea about the function of and organizational requirements of the US military.

The argument about 'star wars' and peaceful space is idiotic.  Some folks need to use their preferred internet search engine and take a look at what is already circling overhead ... and ... which countries/regimes those item/s are from.  Another small point for those who can only partially remember history ... the 'peaceful use of space' concept was alive and well when there were only two players in space.

President Donald J Trump is way ahead and a real leader in providing for the future.

I'm impressed with anyone who can be up and posting here 5:00AM Eastern time.

The content of the post leaves a fair bit to be desired, however. You appear to be taking your talking points from some odd sources if you think that "Trump Anxiety Disorder" is an expression that will have you taken seriously.

The idea that people are apoplectic in any significant numbers bears little resemblance to reality. I've seen mostly mockery as is rather common when your daddy-god-emperor comes up with some poorly thought out bone-headed idea.

The idea of a space force itself isn't a bad one. It's actually quite a sensible thing to do long term. It's just that if you've been paying attention, you may have noticed that Trump fúcks up pretty much everything. He doesn't plan anything out or consult with experts unless he's enriching himself on the golf courses or finding innovative ways to persecute brown people with Miller. While Trump is in charge, this will work out about as well as the border wall or Clinton's incarceration.

StringerBell

Way off in the Puerto Rico hurricane death toll, no surprise. The president of the United States is silent on it which is also no surprise. Such a pathetic coward

MadYaker

Nox wrote: »

All the commotion about President Donald J Trump's Space Force is just noise.  In the 1940's there was the same blather when it came to the formation of the United States Air Force.  The US Army got all upset because the 'Air Corps' was required to support ground troops and blah, blah, blah.  1947 rolls around and bingo ... the USAF is born.  And magically it functioned well in supporting US/UN forces in Korea.

Now 70+ years later we get the same old stuff, but it's just a different day.  But there is a new twist this time ... President Donald J Trump.  The entire MSM press and the TAD (Trump Anxiety Disorder) crowd have yet another issue to get apoplectic about.  The DOD can work out the details ... it is after all a staff duty ... and the POTUS can approve or alter.  Let us not forget that there is a retired 4 star serving as Chief of Staff who I think really has a pretty good idea about the function of and organizational requirements of the US military.

The argument about 'star wars' and peaceful space is idiotic.  Some folks need to use their preferred internet search engine and take a look at what is already circling overhead ... and ... which countries/regimes those item/s are from.  Another small point for those who can only partially remember history ... the 'peaceful use of space' concept was alive and well when there were only two players in space.

President Donald J Trump is way ahead and a real leader in providing for the future.

Such a bizarre post, it reads like some sort of press release from a pro trump super pac or something

mcmoustache

MadYaker wrote: »

Such a bizarre post, it reads like some sort of press release from a pre trump super pac or something

I always picture Angry North Korean News Lady when I see these fawning posts. It's all the more amazing when you consider that it was 5 AM in new work when the post was made.

Hande hoche!

everlast75 wrote: »

Space Force is back again as a distraction from the current issue of the Manafort trial.

It only ever shows up when Trump and Friends want the focus of whatever particular shytestorm is brewing in the presidency.

Prosecution is wrapping up today. Defence should be done by Tuesday. Verdict by Wednesday morning

Interestingly, it was revealed that Gates is still co-operating with the Government. I would say he has plenty of juicy info on Manafort while he was on the Trump team and into the transition, as Gates was there after Manafort left!

Should be fascinating, fairly concise timeline too. If by some unlikely outcome Manafort escapes lightly then he has another trial next month.



Also there should be an update with regards Flynne towards the end of August. Imagine they will kick the can down the road again, with that.

Penn

everlast75 wrote: »

Prosecution is wrapping up today. Defence should be done by Tuesday. Verdict by Wednesday morning

Interestingly, it was revealed that Gates is still co-operating with the Government. I would say he has plenty of juicy info on Manafort while he was on the Trump team and into the transition, as Gates was there after Manafort left!

Yeah, the prosecution's request to have part of a discussion about Gates and the Trump campaign to be held privately because "transcript of the conversation would "reveal details of the ongoing investigation."" was granted, so Gates is almost definitely still helping them with the investigation into Trump, not just Manafort.

robindch

Nox wrote: »

All the commotion about President Donald J Trump's Space Force is just noise.

The Base doesn't seem to care. On the contrary, The Base is energized, motivated and fully up to date on what this Space Force is all about!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYQX-BPUqN4

dr.fuzzenstein

robindch wrote: »

The Base doesn't seem to care. On the contrary, The Base is energized, motivated and fully up to date on what this Space Force is all about!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYQX-BPUqN4

This has actually hurt my brain.

BonnieSituation

It's like a cult. "Trump will tell us the truth"

Imagine being a NASA scientist or engineer and putting up with this administration?

Nox

Imagine anyone in NASA being impressed with NASA's job being climate change.  I am sure that President Donald J Trump was a breath of fresh air for those who were actually concerned about the mission of the NA Space Administration.  Good job Mr. POTUS.

B0jangles

Now try to imagine a set of circumstances in which someone who doesn't know anything about NASA except that the name contains the word *space* also somehow manages to get hired to work there.












I've though of one: Trump is the president and they are related to him (or gave him a lot of money);that'll do it.

mcmoustache

Nox wrote: »

Imagine anyone in NASA being impressed with NASA's job being climate change.  I am sure that President Donald J Trump was a breath of fresh air for those who were actually concerned about the mission of the NA Space Administration.  Good job Mr. POTUS.

So I take it you've no intention of discussing anything and instead choose to drop dishonest grenades of galloping gish proportions of pro-trump propaganda?

amandstu

robindch wrote: »

The Base doesn't seem to care. On the contrary, The Base is energized, motivated and fully up to date on what this Space Force is all about!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYQX-BPUqN4

It's like the Day of the Triffids. Do the spores come from out of his mouth or somewhere fundamentally diffrerent?

pixelburp

Nox wrote: »

Imagine anyone in NASA being impressed with NASA's job being climate change.  I am sure that President Donald J Trump was a breath of fresh air for those who were actually concerned about the mission of the NA Space Administration.  Good job Mr. POTUS.

If you're insisting on talking in generalisations, I'd wager NASA scientists, pilots and engineers are more acutely aware of the fragility of our planet than most, and certainly more so than politicians (or real-estate developers).

Politicising what should be a default approach of "hey, let's not turn our only home into an unliveable, poisoned dump" is a dangerous and irresponsible gamble to play. It's a sad reflection on US politics that basic environmentalism - which yes, includes weather and climate satellites that NASA administrate - has become a partisan issue.