Donald Trump is the President Mark IV (Read Mod Warning in OP)

breatheme

I read in a facebook comment thread people defending him after painting the US flag wrong with the most BIZARRE excuses. "He was busy talking to the children." "He was drawing the thin blue line for the police" (Never mind that it goes right below the square with the stars).

He also can't sing the national anthem. Such patriotism.

everlast75

Itssoeasy wrote: »

I see the Washington post is reporting that trump stopped the White House from putting out a statement praising John McCain( and there are things he should be thanked for btw) but it just shows how petty Trump. I mean he is president and doesn't act like it.

Sounds quite plausible, considering the fact that the staffer who made the remark about McCain's opinion on ACA not being relevant because he was dying anyway, was told not to apologise.

Leroy42

Danzy wrote: »

It isn't confined to his base though, his base and their ways, are mirrored in their opponents as well.
"The Resistance" etc are the new Tea Party for this decade.

That is not true. Many Bernie supporters did not vote for HC. GOP voters very much get behind their man, and as Trump is so effectively pointing out, will do regardless.

This constant refrain, sure they're all the same, is always used by those trying to find excuses.

mcmoustache

Leroy42 wrote: »

This constant refrain, sure they're all the same, is always used by those trying to find excuses.

I see it a lot. While there are nutters on the American left, they are far more marginalised and contained while the nutters on the American right have taken over the asylum.

Hande hoche!

mcmoustache wrote: »

I see it a lot. While there are nutters on the American left, they are far more marginalised and contained while the nutters on the American right have taken over the asylum.

That's a good point. If the Democrats under perform in the midterms could see that changing fairly rapidly in time for the next cycle.

pixelburp

There were a lot of narratives from the Left-of-Centre about voting 3rd party rather than for Clinton - and while I don't think the numbers for Jill Stein & co. made the difference, I read a lot of hang-wringing from Bernie supporters, or around that sphere, who couldn't countenance holding their nose and voting strategically. A lot of arguments boiling down to "...they're both as bad as each other".

Ideologically, it feels like Perfect has become the enemy of Good within the political Left, an increasingly frustrated hardcore determined that no matter how bad Trump has been for left-leaning politics, they'd rather vote for extremists or outliers than be tactical and start by getting rid of the extremists in the GOP. I'd have a lot of time for the policies of someone like Ocasio Cortez, but it's debatable whether a bevy of candidates like her would find success in the Flyover States.

Mind you, I do get it: in a barely democratic system of two pretty centrist-to-right wing parties, it's a lot to stomach in having to vote Clinton in a "lesser of two evils" situation rather than a candidate that actually reflects your values and beliefs. Imagine if a proper, successfully funded third party actually formed in America (and I don't mean Libertarianism, which I read once hilariously described as astrology for men)

UsedToWait

breatheme wrote: »

I read in a facebook comment thread people defending him after painting the US flag wrong with the most BIZARRE excuses. "He was busy talking to the children." "He was drawing the thin blue line for the police" (Never mind that it goes right below the square with the stars).

He also can't sing the national anthem. Such patriotism.

His effort does remind me of another flag close to his heart though

mcmoustache

pixelburp wrote: »

There were a lot of narratives from the Left-of-Centre about voting 3rd party rather than for Clinton - and while I don't think the numbers for Jill Stein & co. made the difference, I read a lot of hang-wringing from Bernie supporters, or around that sphere, who couldn't countenance holding their nose and voting strategically. A lot of arguments boiling down to "...they're both as bad as each other".

Regarding what you said about Jill Stein and the votes that she received, you're correct that they didn't make the difference. In Michigan and in Wisconsin, she received more votes than Trump's margin of victory but that would still not have been enough to get the EC votes. In Pennsylvania, Trump's margin was slightly higher than Stein's share but I would doubt that those Stein voters would vote for Hillary in sufficient numbers to swing the election her way; Stein voters, if Stein is any reflection are anti-vax loons who think that they're allergic to wifi.


Regarding Bernie, you're also correct there. On reddit, a lot of those who were pushing for Bernie were also pushing the "Both are the same" line after the primary. Crazier still was that a lot of them were pushing for Trump after the primary but a lot of that is suspected to have been part of the Russian interference campaign.

Water John

Clinton should have reached to Sanders more and what can be termed the blue collar vote, that Biden captured for O'Bama. Bill warned her repeatedly about it.

Gbear

pixelburp wrote: »

Mind you, I do get it: in a barely democratic system of two pretty centrist-to-right wing parties, it's a lot to stomach in having to vote Clinton in a "lesser of two evils" situation rather than a candidate that actually reflects your values and beliefs. Imagine if a proper, successfully funded third party actually formed in America (and I don't mean Libertarianism, which I read once hilariously described as astrology for men)

In the current system the Democrats wouldn't want left wing competition to split their votes.

A libertarian party would be perfect, because it would split the Republicans, and allow the Dems to start pushing against military spending and neo-colonialism without getting branded traitors, bin the drug war without being called weak on crime, and probably safeguard abortion legislation, with the theocrats isolated within the Republican party, which itself would pretty much become a Christian Taliban party.

everlast75

Rumours intensifying that Donald may pardon Manafort.

I sincerely hope he does. I don't expect the GOP to do anything about it, but I can see it helping the Dems' cause in November "bigly"

Water John

Is Manfort's next case at State or Federal level? Getting confused. I presume Manafort cannot be pardoned until he is found guilty. That's referring to the next court case.
If he is pardoned, he cannot plead the fifth and will be forced to testify to Congress.

2 Scoops

Unsurprisingly, Cohen's lawyer has walked back the claims he made. If Cohen was Trump's "fixer" and is willing to reveal anything to keep himself out of jail, this just sows further doubt in my mind that there was some grand conspiracy. It's strike 6 or 7 now and with everyone of these so called bombshells, the stories have turned out to be untrue.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/attorney-for-michael-cohen-backs-away-from-confidence-that-cohen-has-information-about-trumps-knowledge-on-russian-efforts/2018/08/26/09d7f26e-a876-11e8-97ce-cc9042272f07_story.html

He was asked the following by Anderson Cooper on CNN.

“So Michael Cohen does not have information that President Trump knew about the Trump Tower meeting with the Russians beforehand or even after?” CNN’s Anderson Cooper asked Davis.

“No, he does not,” Davis said.

Hande hoche!

With regards Michael Cohen, his funding page is over $160,000 at this rate. He must have an impressive immunity deal if his lawyer is already rowing back on what he might know.

everlast75

2 Scoops wrote: »

Unsurprisingly, Cohen's lawyer has walked back the claims he made. If Cohen was Trump's "fixer" and is willing to reveal anything to keep himself out of jail, this just sows further doubt in my mind that there was some grand conspiracy. It's strike 6 or 7 now and with everyone of these so called bombshells, the stories have turned out to be untrue.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/attorney-for-michael-cohen-backs-away-from-confidence-that-cohen-has-information-about-trumps-knowledge-on-russian-efforts/2018/08/26/09d7f26e-a876-11e8-97ce-cc9042272f07_story.html

He was asked the following by Anderson Cooper on CNN.

“So Michael Cohen does not have information that President Trump knew about the Trump Tower meeting with the Russians beforehand or even after?” CNN’s Anderson Cooper asked Davis.

“No, he does not,” Davis said.

Kudos on the "MSM" on calling out stories against Trump eh? Apparently that's not what the likes of CNN do, according to him anyway

Hande hoche! wrote: »

With regards Michael Cohen, his funding page is over $160,000 at this rate. He must have an impressive immunity deal if his lawyer is already rowing back on what he might know.

There should be absolutely zero money given to Cohen. He can either cooperate or go to jail. He was fully involved and perfectly willing to commit the crimes, so he should face the music.

Rhineshark

Water John wrote: »

Clinton should have reached to Sanders more and what can be termed the blue collar vote, that Biden captured for O'Bama. Bill warned her repeatedly about it.

What does "O'bama" mean? Is it that people are confused about his name or think he's Irish-Kenyan or what? No-one who uses it is ever willing to explain it!

mcmoustache

Water John wrote: »

Is Manfort's next case at State or Federal level? Getting confused. I presume Manafort cannot be pardoned until he is found guilty. That's referring to the next court case.
If he is pardoned, he cannot plead the fifth and will be forced to testify to Congress.

It's federal and will take place in DC on the 17th of next month. The 10 counts that resulted in a mistrial can also be retried, should prosecutors have the appetite but they may not need to.

Regarding pardons, the powers are very broad and I'm not even sure that the receiver of a pardon needs to be found guilty - it may be possible after the crime but before a conviction.

If he receives a pardon, he loses fifth amendment protections against the crimes for which he was pardoned but he still has those protections from other possibly unknown crimes. For example, if he were asked about kicking a baby and stealing her ice-cream, he could still plead the fifth. That is unless the baby-kicking was added to the indictments for the DC trial and he had been found guilty and pardoned on that count.

mcmoustache

2 Scoops wrote: »

Unsurprisingly, Cohen's lawyer has walked back the claims he made. If Cohen was Trump's "fixer" and is willing to reveal anything to keep himself out of jail, this just sows further doubt in my mind that there was some grand conspiracy. It's strike 6 or 7 now and with everyone of these so called bombshells, the stories have turned out to be untrue.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/attorney-for-michael-cohen-backs-away-from-confidence-that-cohen-has-information-about-trumps-knowledge-on-russian-efforts/2018/08/26/09d7f26e-a876-11e8-97ce-cc9042272f07_story.html

He was asked the following by Anderson Cooper on CNN.

“So Michael Cohen does not have information that President Trump knew about the Trump Tower meeting with the Russians beforehand or even after?” CNN’s Anderson Cooper asked Davis.

“No, he does not,” Davis said.

Well done to the media for confirming this. This is the difference between the Trump and non-Trump news organisations. This was actually corrected by Friday is I'm not mistaken.

none of this changes the status of Trump as an unindicted co-conspirator, however. It just means that Cohen's spokesperson needs to be more careful.

Igotadose

mcmoustache wrote: »

Regarding pardons, the powers are very broad and I'm not even sure that the receiver of a pardon needs to be found guilty - it may be possible after the crime but before a conviction.

If he receives a pardon, he loses fifth amendment protections against the crimes for which he was pardoned but he still has those protections from other possibly unknown crimes. For example, if he were asked about kicking a baby and stealing her ice-cream, he could still plead the fifth. That is unless the baby-kicking was added to the indictments for the DC trial and he had been found guilty and pardoned on that count.

Recall that Ford pardoned Nixon, who hadn't been convicted of anything, nor impeached. Quid pro quo was the feeling back then.

Presidential pardons have been shown to be abuseable, by Trump. Time to fix that (which would require an amendment, sadly.)

Quin_Dub

Igotadose wrote: »

Recall that Ford pardoned Nixon, who hadn't been convicted of anything, nor impeached. Quid pro quo was the feeling back then.

Presidential pardons have been shown to be abuseable, by Trump. Time to fix that (which would require an amendment, sadly.)

Trump "pardoned" Arpaio before he got to court didn't he?

mcmoustache

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Trump "pardoned" Arpaio before he got to court didn't he?

I think so. He was found to be in contempt of court by a judge's order to stop racially profiling Latinos and was due to be sentenced.

At the October 4, 2017 hearing, Bolton held the position that "she had no choice but to validate Arpaio's Aug. 25 pardon by President Donald Trump and throw out the finding of guilt in his criminal contempt case because he had not yet been sentenced and was not afforded an opportunity to appeal the verdict."[30]

Hande hoche!

Seems like the US have a new trade deal with Mexico. Surprised that they worked out one with Mexico before one with Canada. Will be interested to see the terms.

James Brown

Hande hoche! wrote: »

Seems like the US have a new trade deal with Mexico. Surprised that they worked out one with Mexico before one with Canada. Will be interested to see the terms.

It's bluster from Trump to try bully Canada into submission. The Mexicans were contacting Canada just a few months back asking for promises Canada wouldn't enter into a deal without them, yet here we have Mexico doing it.
Trump needs some spin. This will be sold as Justin getting spanked. I'd expect a CAN/US deal in the near future now Trump can claim a PR victory of sorts.

26000 Elephants

2 Scoops wrote: »

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/attorney-for-michael-cohen-backs-away-from-confidence-that-cohen-has-information-about-trumps-knowledge-on-russian-efforts/2018/08/26/09d7f26e-a876-11e8-97ce-cc9042272f07_story.html

.

Glad to see you are finally on-board with the fake news main stream media!

But I dont see how this impacts in any way on the fact that Cohen will be giving evidence against Trump. I'd wait until he is deposed before getting excited about what is said/not said.

mcmoustache

Hande hoche! wrote: »

Seems like the US have a new trade deal with Mexico. Surprised that they worked out one with Mexico before one with Canada. Will be interested to see the terms.

As always with anything that comes out of Trump's mouth, it probably isn't as it seems. As far as I'm aware, his administration is working on a 3-country NAFTA.

This is probably just Trump prematurely announcing victory and ranting about Canada to make himself feel better.

Phonehead

Hande hoche! wrote: »

Seems like the US have a new trade deal with Mexico. Surprised that they worked out one with Mexico before one with Canada. Will be interested to see the terms.

Not really, NAFTA is not a trade agreement where the same trade conditions are applicable to all 3 Nations. Each country has their own set of individual agreements, the US has issues with Mexican car imports where cheap labour is used - this agreement in principle that they just announced includes Mexico guaranteeing a certain % of car imports comes from labour earning $X an hour.

26000 Elephants

mcmoustache wrote: »

As always with anything that comes out of Trump's mouth, it probably isn't as it seems. As far as I'm aware, his administration is working on a 3-country NAFTA.

This is probably just Trump prematurely announcing victory and ranting about Canada to make himself feel better.

Its probably up there with the "nuclear deal with North Korea" or "Shipping CNG to Europe". I'm sure the Canadians arent losing any sleep over it.

spacecoyote

More poor taste from the oval office.

https://twitter.com/jonkarl/status/1034029965531131904

You can think what you like about some of McCain's politics, but this is still out of order

pixelburp

Say what you will about his politics - and indeed the politics of John McCain - but Trumps pettiness as a man is there for all to see in these actions. His petty, self-absorbed nature is so incurable, so without the contrarian voice of a partner or friend that he can't show the smallest modicum of dignity and respect at this most human of events. Even that's too much to ask, and indulges in a brattish F*** You to McCain and his family - even his tweet contains a picture of Trump and tone-deaf exclamation point.

mcmoustache

spacecoyote wrote: »

More poor taste from the oval office.

https://twitter.com/jonkarl/status/1034029965531131904

You can think what you like about some of McCain's politics, but this is still out of order

It's only a tradition to keep it at half-mast until the funeral for sitting senators. The requirement is 2 days, I think.

That being said, it's a dick move and it'll be interesting to hear how the decision was made, given how much this WH leaks.