Donald Trump is the President Mark IV (Read Mod Warning in OP)

Christy42

Obviously he won't but he needs to held accountable. He just accused one of the US' biggest trading partners of interfering in a US election. When Obama did it he had the various intelligence services and intelligence services from other countries agreeing with him. Since then it has been backed up as bot farms are traced back to Russia.

On China we have the word of one man famed as a serial liar. I feel like it should come down to him providing some evidence or him backing down before he is allowed move on from this. The system does not work otherwise (I get that won't happen).

Rhineshark

everlast75 wrote: »

An interesting revisit to this story.

A contributor and Defence attorney on Ari Melber's show believes that Cohen plead guilty to one charge, but has made a deal "under seal".

He says the reason why Davis walked back his statement is not because its untrue, its because Mueller doesn't like anyone talking about what they know and what they are going to say. That's the way Mueller or any prudent prosecutor would operate.

The theory goes that Mueller has told Davis not to get out ahead of his skis and wind it back, or else there will be no deal.

So, it isn't mainstream media at fault here. Its an overzealous Defence attorney, in a move to drive up his Client's defence fund by making people more sympathetic to him and moreover cheer on his role in taking on Trump.

Seth Abramson called out Davis' comment at the time as a dangerous mistake to make as an attorney for Cohen's case and reckoned that Cohen and Davis would go quiet and/or play the previous down. It was a bad miscalculation.

mcmoustache

Christy42 wrote: »

Obviously he won't but he needs to held accountable. He just accused one of the US' biggest trading partners of interfering in a US election. When Obama did it he had the various intelligence services and intelligence services from other countries agreeing with him. Since then it has been backed up as bot farms are traced back to Russia.

On China we have the word of one man famed as a serial liar. I feel like it should come down to him providing some evidence or him backing down before he is allowed move on from this. The system does not work otherwise (I get that won't happen).

For the record, this theory sprung from the mind of Louis Gohmert and was distributed via Tucker Carlson's Daily Caller and as a bonus implicates Peter Strzok.

Here are the tweets:

China hacked Hillary Clinton’s private Email Server. Are they sure it wasn’t Russia (just kidding!)? What are the odds that the FBI and DOJ are right on top of this? Actually, a very big story. Much classified information!

and

Hillary Clinton’s Emails, many of which are Classified Information, got hacked by China. Next move better be by the FBI & DOJ or, after all of their other missteps (Comey, McCabe, Strzok, Page, Ohr, FISA, Dirty Dossier etc.), their credibility will be forever gone!

I like the Reuters Headline: "Trump, without evidence, blames China for hacking Clinton emails"

ancapailldorcha

Don't dispute mod warnings on thread, please.

Leroy42

It is incredibly irresponsible for Trump to tweet out that about China.

Two possibilities;
1) he has been given the intel by the FBI etc,
2) he made it up or took it from some unverified source.

if 1) then he has given the Chinese the heads up on what the US has uncovered. This immediately puts their assets at risk as the Chinese will want to track down how it was discovered and/or give them time to reorganise the operation to avoid future detection.
if 2) it is promoting fake news, the one thing he seems to be very much against.

Has he brought this up with his great friend President Xi? What sanctions is he now going to implement to order to deter China from attempting this in the future? What steps are the US taking to stop the Chinese from doing it again?

Have they figured out what he Chinese did with the e-mails? Have the Chinese been able to use any intel to get benefits in the trade talks? Did the e-mails contain any top secret info, are particular people at risk, nuclear secrets, trade secrets, military intel?

If people actually took POTUS seriously and at his word, a tweet like this could be the spark that ignites a war. It is a really serious charge to lay against the Chinese. Luckily, for the world, most nations ignore what the POTUS says and treat him like a child on prosac. Unlike the 40%+ of the US. Which based on Trumps tweet should be calling for immediate action against the Chinese.

Zubeneschamali

Leroy42 wrote: »

If people actually took POTUS seriously and at his word

I don't think even his most ardent supporters believe his tweets. They just like them because they annoy his opponents.

mcmoustache

Leroy42 wrote: »

It is incredibly irresponsible for Trump to tweet out that about China.

Two possibilities;
1) he has been given the intel by the FBI etc,
2) he made it up or took it from some unverified source.

I think you're overthinking this. It's option 2. Trump gets his info from FOX and printouts of dodgy websites. The Daily Caller, Tucker Carlson's website, published this "news" based on an interview with Louis Gohmert.

I'm not even sure Trump listens to his intelligence briefings.

Leroy42

I think it was 2Scoops agreeing with Trump the other day that Google are actively working to make him look bad.

So to help correct this narrative, the current POTUS has today tweeted out that China hacked into a US political party and stole information. I know everybody will simply laugh it off, there goes Trump being Trump, but this really is incredibly serious.

Can you imagine if China did the same? Or if Israel claimed Palestine did the same?

Wars have been started over much less than this. Of course nothing will happen A) because Trump has no intention of doing anything to China, and China will ignore this. Otherwise, at the very least the Chinese should be requesting the US ambassador to explain it and remove him if not Trump doesn't retract.

borderlinemeath

Manic Moran wrote: »

What would possess anyone to bring Pearl Harbor up in conversation anyway?

Interesting result in Arizona. Both D and R selected the moderate candidates available to them in their primaries for the Senate seat. Compare with the result in the primaries for Governor in Florida, where both parties selected far less moderate candidates.

What's more interesting is that apparently Mike Pence tweeted that Martha McSally was home and dry before the results were in.

"Big night for @MarthaMcSally in Arizona! Martha served our nation with distinction in the @usairforce & she will be a great addition to the US Senate helping enact the @realDonaldTrump agenda. Get out and support Martha in November!"

He deleted it fairly quickly but not before it was screengrabbed and questioned.

I'm curious how VP mike_pence called the race before any votes were reported? Wasn't Arizona hacked by Russia? After he posted this, he immediately deleted it. Unfortunately Twitter never forgets #MikePence.

Leroy42

mcmoustache wrote: »

I think you're overthinking this. It's option 2. Trump gets his info from FOX and printouts of dodgy websites. The Daily Caller, Tucker Carlson's website, published this "news" based on an interview with Louis Gohmert.

I'm not even sure Trump listens to his intelligence briefings.

It is not often that I am accused of overthinking!

I was attempting to be fair and take all possibilities into account.

Leroy42

borderlinemeath wrote: »

What's more interesting is that apparently Mike Pence tweeted that Martha McSally was home and dry before the results were in.




He deleted it fairly quickly but not before it was screengrabbed and questioned.

What was the expected outcome of the primary? Was it considered a done deal before it even started?

In many of these 'races' they are nothing but a glorified procession and thus Pence (or his staff more likely) had probably prepared this and hit send in error.

Still, at a time that the entire election system is being questioned, it is a pretty major screw up and Pence should really be asked to clarify what actually happened.

borderlinemeath

Leroy42 wrote: »

What was the expected outcome of the primary? Was it considered a done deal before it even started?

In many of these 'races' they are nothing but a glorified procession and thus Pence (or his staff more likely) had probably prepared this and hit send in error.

Still, at a time that the entire election system is being questioned, it is a pretty major screw up and Pence should really be asked to clarify what actually happened.

It was expected, but as you alluded to, it's merely adding fuel to the fire. But what else would you expect from this administration? Cack handed seems to be their modus operandi.

Christy42

Was this the extent of Chinese interference?

Why help Trump?

Where any GOP members or Trump himself colluding with China?

Should a second investigation be opened into interference in the election with this new bombshell?

Does this make Trump's election win less legitimate given China was helping him?

These are the obvious questions after that tweet.

Stallingrad

Why help Trump?

I can see why most foreign leaders like the fact that Trump is President. He takes media heat off them and he emboldens the embracing of any crackpot agenda. The also don't need to fear the US Big stick as the US has lost any credibility on the world stage and no one believes a word he says. Did we ever think that the US would be the mockery it has become?

spacecoyote

Christy42 wrote: »

Was this the extent of Chinese interference?

Why help Trump?

Where any GOP members or Trump himself colluding with China?

Should a second investigation be opened into interference in the election with this new bombshell?

Does this make Trump's election win less legitimate given China was helping him?

These are the obvious questions after that tweet.

That would be hilarious, if they appointed a second Special Counsel to investigate Chinese links to the Trump campaign, and had two separate investigations running simultaneously. And who could Trump blame for it, he made the accusation himself

serfboard

spacecoyote wrote: »

And who could Trump blame for it, he made the accusation himself

Oh don't worry, Trump always finds someone else to blame.

ECO_Mental

I worn out from Trump at this stage…..I think he has broken me.

Lets step back here for a minute and just remember last week his personal lawyer pleaded guilty to 8 federal charges that included campaign finance laws. His Lawyer stated in court that they were under the direction of Trump in order to influence the election. This makes him an unindicted conspirator to a federal crime!!! This was one week ago……but its like now nothing happened, its all about google and how they are unfair to him reporting the bad stuff he is doing!

Also last week his Campaign Chief was found guilty of 8 federal charges (and VERY LUCKY not be convicted of another 10) his Chief Financial Officer of the Trump Org took an immunity deal and his best buddy in the media also took an immunity deal for giving up information on Trump.

This ladies and gentlemen is one weeks scandals in the Trump Circus (actually about 2 or 3 days’ worth) What has me broken is the GOP and his buddies in Fox, why can’t they see there is a problem here? I mean how much smoke needs to come out of the gun?

I listen to fox news on TuneIn every now and then and it always fascinates me that a bunch of intelligent people can sit around a table and not see there is a major problem here with this person. The mental gymnastics and excuses used to explain away smack in your face facts and evidence has me bamboozled. Do they actually believe what they are saying?

It also has me very worried for when the **** really hits the fan and Muellers report comes out. These guys are in deep with their propaganda and are fully committed to their beliefs, they won’t turn on Trump (or GOP) easily.

There is trouble ahead.

Water John

Fox has a specific market demographic. It will say and continue to say whatever that market wants to hear.
I'm not going all Chomisky in saying that.

Quin_Dub

ECO_Mental wrote: »

I worn out from Trump at this stage…..I think he has broken me.

Lets step back here for a minute and just remember last week his personal lawyer pleaded guilty to 8 federal charges that included campaign finance laws. His Lawyer stated in court that they were under the direction of Trump in order to influence the election. This makes him an unindicted conspirator to a federal crime!!! This was one week ago……but its like now nothing happened, its all about google and how they are unfair to him reporting the bad stuff he is doing!

Also last week his Campaign Chief was found guilty of 8 federal charges (and VERY LUCKY not be convicted of another 10) his Chief Financial Officer of the Trump Org took an immunity deal and his best buddy in the media also took an immunity deal for giving up information on Trump.

This ladies and gentlemen is one weeks scandals in the Trump Circus (actually about 2 or 3 days’ worth) What has me broken is the GOP and his buddies in Fox, why can’t they see there is a problem here? I mean how much smoke needs to come out of the gun?

I listen to fox news on TuneIn every now and then and it always fascinates me that a bunch of intelligent people can sit around a table and not see there is a major problem here with this person. The mental gymnastics and excuses used to explain away smack in your face facts and evidence has me bamboozled. Do they actually believe what they are saying?

It also has me very worried for when the **** really hits the fan and Muellers report comes out. These guys are in deep with their propaganda and are fully committed to their beliefs, they won’t turn on Trump (or GOP) easily.

There is trouble ahead.

And that has been the plan all along... Every time Trump et al scream "fake news" it's not really about that specific story , it's always been about tearing down public confidence in the media and factual reporting so that when Mueller finally publishes his report they will have so utterly weakened their supporters faith in the entire process so that they can ride it out.

The truth or otherwise of a specific story is meaningless in the plan , they just want to drown the world in bull**** so that enough people are no longer able to tell fact from fiction so they can retain power.

Leroy42

ECO_Mental wrote: »

I listen to fox news on TuneIn every now and then and it always fascinates me that a bunch of intelligent people can sit around a table and not see there is a major problem here with this person. The mental gymnastics and excuses used to explain away smack in your face facts and evidence has me bamboozled. Do they actually believe what they are saying?

Well, it is a small point, but I think very important.

Those in Fox News never actually stand up for the stuff that comes out. They never really defend what he does. What they do is deflect. It is not so much that they do see how bad he is, they simply fear the other as being worse.

Like in the UK with Corbyn, doesn't really matter what Trump does, he can't be worse than having a democrat in the office.

Now, one could say that Pence would take over, and in the short term that is true. But in all likelihood the GOP would pay a heavy price should Trump be impeached or resign, and many of the GOP really believe that Trump is a vote-getter (not surprising given they would against HC and retained both houses).

Maybe I am completely wrong, I know Tucker defends him quite a lot, but in the main it seems more a deflection rather than straight up defence. (judge jeanine maybe as well)

everlast75

Racist dog whistle, or complete ignorance? You decide.

Me, I'm going with the former.

https://twitter.com/stevemorris__/status/1034800249985003521

StringerBell

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

RTÉ reporting this morning that Trump has blamed China for hacking Hillary Clinton's emails. Could he parrot his Russian handler any more obviously?

Yes, I see it on Reuters, too, says it was just a Tweet.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1034654816046329856

It's so funny seeing him call out anybody's credibility

So now we are back to it wasn't Russia. I don't believe my intelligence community.

I don't see why they bother asking questions of him or his minions at all. Or at least simply not just hold their feet to their fire now. Pick this one for example, why does the president continue to change his story, is that the sign of a mental deficiency? Is it a lie? Is he so easily swayed he has no firm position on anything and cannot be relied upon to stand up for the country?

Over and over again.

StringerBell

everlast75 wrote: »

Racist dog whistle, or complete ignorance? You decide.

Me, I'm going with the former.

https://twitter.com/stevemorris__/status/1034800249985003521

They don't even hide it anymore sure.

kilns

Trump has just announced on Twitter that McGahn is leaving his position and thanked him for his great service and pleasure to work with him etc, 
How long till he starts bashing him over Twitter once his testimony comes out

MadYaker

Any US based radio programs or podcasts that you guys listen to that are good for getting an unbiased view on US political news?

irishash

MadYaker wrote: »

Any US based radio programs or podcasts that you guys listen to that are good for getting an unbiased view on US political news?

I think everybody has a bias in politics - you cant be like/hate all political leaning equally.

but since you asked - https://www.npr.org/podcasts/510310/npr-politics-podcast?t=1535557440130

everlast75

MadYaker wrote: »

Any US based radio programs or podcasts that you guys listen to that are good for getting an unbiased view on US political news?

Its very very tough to get what some may call unbiased. This administration, by any objective means, is a complete and utter farce. Therefore, merely covering it could be construed as "biased" or "fake news".

Maddow is excellent investigative journalism. I find her a little annoying but her work is solid. She doesn't go for the obvious stories.

Anderson 360 is competent, as is Ari Melber.

I also listen to Trumpcast and Preet's "Stay tuned".

mcmoustache

kilns wrote: »

Trump has just announced on Twitter that McGahn is leaving his position and thanked him for his great service and pleasure to work with him etc, 
How long till he starts bashing him over Twitter once his testimony comes out

Naturally, this was done via Tweet. McGahn apparently hadn't discussed leaving with Trump. Here's more info from a WaPo journo.

https://twitter.com/PostRoz/status/1034824524607488000

Itssoeasy

everlast75 wrote: »

Racist dog whistle, or complete ignorance? You decide.

Me, I'm going with the former.

https://twitter.com/stevemorris__/status/1034800249985003521

I'm going with the former aswell. He surely could have come up with a better phrase then what he did.

2 Scoops

And that has been the plan all along... Every time Trump et al scream "fake news" it's not really about that specific story , it's always been about tearing down public confidence in the media and factual reporting

The biggest problem for CNN's latest "bombshell" is not that their anonymous source ( Davis ) lied, it's that those who wrote the story said they reached out to Davis to comment on the story but he refused knowing he was the anonymous source. That is hugely misleading and in my eyes a straight up a lie. On top of that the Washington post and others retracted their stories but CNN still refuse to do so. Davis was on Anderson Coopers show and repeated the false claim only to completely U turn a week later.

By my count it's the 5th major Russian bombshell CNN has gotten wrong in a relatively short period of time, Scaramucci and Russian bank, Don JR had early access to Wikileaks emails, Comey would refute Trump's claim of not being under investigation at hearing and that Russians had hacked election systems in 21 states. The stories have to be actually factual first before complaining about wrongful fake news claims. They are making it incredibly easy for Trump.

https://theintercept.com/2018/08/28/cnn-credibly-accused-of-lying-to-its-audience-about-a-key-claim-in-its-blockbuster-cohen-story-refuses-to-comment/