Donald Trump is the President Mark IV (Read Mod Warning in OP)

Akrasia

Christy42 wrote: »

What do you think of his continued failure to appoint a special prosecutor to investigate China's effect on the 2016 election.

I mean what else did they do and he should get proof before going after them.


Seriously, some said that others would get hammered for what he says and they are right. But similarly I would take an accusation of stealing seriously from most people but not a toddler. Countries, including China, have learned to ignore his crazy ramblings and had figured he would not remember this accusation the next day. Just like that speech really. No one in the white house was going to follow up as they know it is a lie.

In other news Trump supporters in London are flying a blimp of Khan in protest of the Trump balloon. Supposedly in the name of free speech. I think they thought Khan would block it and they could accuse him of hypocrisy. Instead Khan laughed it off (can you imagine Trump doing that).

Yeah, its such an own goal. Trump fans go crazy cause people are laughing at them for getting angry at a balloon, so they get their own balloon and wait for others to be outraged, instead everyone just laughs at them again.

They don't realise that not everyone sees the world through the eyes of an angry victim complex authoritarian

BonnieSituation

2 Scoops wrote: »

Packed rally

I misread it and thought it was 7min long. Ha.

Anyway, I just randomly picked a spot and got to a devotee ca. 5h27 in and she was aghast that the "mainstream media weren't covering this. It's more important than a funeral. I get that funerals are important but this affects all of us."

Man alive!

That's enough lobotomous viewing for this morning.

PopePalpatine

BonnieSituation wrote: »

I misread it and thought it was 7min long. Ha.

The "Gish gallop" is alive and well.

spacecoyote

And he's also now back to threatening a US withdrawal from the WTO.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/30/trump-threatens-to-withdraw-from-world-trade-organization.html

With the number of different things he's lashed out at in the last 48 hours, there must be something big on the cards shortly?

seamus

He should do it.

Then he'll really see just how much support he has when the conservatives panic about their bank accounts.

It's hot air of course. The world is now wise to his nonsense and will pay no heed to it. This is a 5-year-old throwing a tantrum because he's not being allowed to bully his way to what he wants.

VinLieger

spacecoyote wrote: »

And he's also now back to threatening a US withdrawal from the WTO.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/30/trump-threatens-to-withdraw-from-world-trade-organization.html

With the number of different things he's lashed out at in the last 48 hours, there must be something big on the cards shortly?

Some rumours that Mueller will be filing some big stuff just before EOD today

Quin_Dub

VinLieger wrote: »

Some rumours that Mueller will be filing some big stuff just before EOD today

With Monday a Public Holiday in the US , today would be a perfect day to perp-walk a few high-profile people as they'd end up in jail for the long-week-end with no courts open to hear bail applications until Tuesday.

Hurrache

VinLieger wrote: »

Some rumours that Mueller will be filing some big stuff just before EOD today

Saw that mentioned, also saw suggestions that a big story may break in one of the media outlets he's attacking. Could be related, could be guesswork.

Quin_Dub

spacecoyote wrote: »

And he's also now back to threatening a US withdrawal from the WTO.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/30/trump-threatens-to-withdraw-from-world-trade-organization.html

With the number of different things he's lashed out at in the last 48 hours, there must be something big on the cards shortly?

Hurrache wrote: »

Saw that mentioned, also saw suggestions that a big story may break in one of the media outlets he's attacking. Could be related, could be guesswork.

So far he's been pretty predicable...Every time he's had one of these twitter meltdowns/rants it's been linked to a significant piece of bad news for him.

There is also the argument I've seen made that this is him trying to draw attention away from the McCain funeral etc. as he can't stand the current narrative and the unflattering media comparisons being made between him and McCain..

everlast75

Quin_Dub wrote: »

With Monday a Public Holiday in the US , today would be a perfect day to perp-walk a few high-profile people as they'd end up in jail for the long-week-end with no courts open to hear bail applications until Tuesday.

Donny Jr would be nice....

Leroy42

Quin_Dub wrote: »

So far he's been pretty predicable...Every time he's had one of these twitter meltdowns/rants it's been linked to a significant piece of bad news for him.

There is also the argument I've seen made that this is him trying to draw attention away from the McCain funeral etc. as he can't stand the current narrative and the unflattering media comparisons being made between him and McCain..

And also the fact that it throws in stark relief that the man is totally unsuited to the office he holds.

He is POTUS, not just of the people he happens to like. A leader has to show empathy towards those that they might not like, or agree with.

The fact that POTUS was effectively barred from going, when it was a collection of a who's who in the political world shows just how ineffective he is.

People are focusing on the difference between the men, when in fact it is Trump's total inability to rise above that and see the office for what it represents rather than simply what he wants.

amandstu

Is it at all likely we will see the break up of the USA if the GOP continues to support this President?

The strength of T's base seems to me reminiscent of the parts of Russia that strongly support Putin.

If this present regime continues is it likely that geographical ares of the States will start to feel that they are no longer being represented and will make moves to assert their independence?

Ironically I think it may be the right wing that have been pushing for Californian independence.

Stallingrad

Even if 45 left in the morning how long will it take to undo the damage he has done to so many US institutions? The divisions he has worked so hard to expose may never heal, it will take a special breed of politician to lead America from this mess and so far I don't see any.

ancapailldorcha

Stallingrad wrote: »

Even if 45 left in the morning how long will it take to undo the damage he has done to so many US institutions? The divisions he has worked so hard to expose may never heal, it will take a special breed of politician to lead America from this mess and so far I don't see any.

When a country is this divided, is it even possible? If it is, it'll take years or even generations. So far neither party has shown any sign of even recognizing this need in any sort of significant or pragmatic way.

amandstu

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

When a country is this divided, is it even possible? If it is, it'll take years or even generations. So far neither party has shown any sign of even recognizing this need in any sort of significant or pragmatic way.

What has caused their country to become so divided ? Is it the realization that their dominant place in the world order is under threat allied to the rise of globalization?

ancapailldorcha

amandstu wrote: »

What has caused their country to become so divided ? Is it the realization that their dominant place in the world order is under threat allied to the rise of globalization?

I'd put it down to the devastation of the working class due to a collapse in manufacturing, stagnant wages and little more than McJobs to sustain them in some areas whereas they grew up in families with one breadwinner who owned their own house.

This isn't Trump's fault but nor is he the solution. He simply exploited this for his own gain.

amandstu

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I'd put it down to the devastation of the working class due to a collapse in manufacturing, stagnant wages and little more than McJobs to sustain them in some areas whereas they grew up in families with one breadwinner who owned their own house.

This isn't Trump's fault but nor is he the solution. He simply exploited this for his own gain.

Is this Scargill v Thatcher all over again?

Leroy42

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I'd put it down to the devastation of the working class due to a collapse in manufacturing, stagnant wages and little more than McJobs to sustain them in some areas whereas they grew up in families with one breadwinner who owned their own house.

This isn't Trump's fault but nor is he the solution. He simply exploited this for his own gain.

But this is exactly the model that the USA has always been based on. Capitalism, self-made man, no safety net, the market decides. It is the logical outcome of the very policies that they claim is what makes America what it is. I always laugh when I hear Americans complaining about globalisation, they fecking started it and are now simply being beaten at it by other countries.

What we are really seeing now is that many in the USA are asking for a particular form of socialism, focused on them rather then some 'welfare scroungers'. They want tariffs to protect them from outside competition, they want to stop immigration to protect them from lower paid workers etc etc.

They simply haven't realised it yet and are struggling to admit that the country that they claim to love, and claim is the best thing ever, is fundamentally flawed and are thus looking for a quick fix and someone to blame.

BonnieSituation

Leroy42 wrote: »

But this is exactly the model that the USA has always been based on. Capitalism, self-made man, no safety net, the market decides. It is the logical outcome of the very policies that they claim is what makes America what it is. I always laugh when I hear Americans complaining about globalisation, they fecking started it and are now simply being beaten at it by other countries.

What we are really seeing now is that many in the USA are asking for a particular form of socialism, focused on them rather then some 'welfare scroungers'. They want tariffs to protect them from outside competition, they want to stop immigration to protect them from lower paid workers etc etc.

They simply haven't realised it yet and are struggling to admit that the country that they claim to love, and claim is the best thing ever, is fundamentally flawed and are thus looking for a quick fix and someone to blame.

Excellent post

amandstu

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Excellent post

Not to mention that the industrialized economies have benefited from the low prices of goods when the manufacturing was outsourced to poor countries.

That includes the groups complaining about job losses now.

It has also raised millions of people out of poverty around the world (while benefiting those established economies at the same time)

It is the governments duty to attend to those who suffered from the effects but that would be against their religion (moral hazard etc)

looksee

amandstu wrote: »

What has caused their country to become so divided ? Is it the realization that their dominant place in the world order is under threat allied to the rise of globalization?

I'd say that it is gone, having Trump in charge has just made obvious something that was quietly creeping up on them.

spacecoyote

https://twitter.com/NorthmanTrader/status/1035169250779045888

Interesting statistic which also ties in with the pay raises being up for the chop.

So, the tax cut has massively reduced the amount of money that the Fed is taking in, at a time when pre tax income is significantly up.

If this message is getting to the rust-belt, etc... I don't see how the support levels can stay up. Lose a fortune in income from big business & make up for it by hitting middle America

pixelburp

The danger though seems to be that while economically the USA is losing its edge, it is still a power militarily; so my worry would be over Trump (or any set of hawks) could further destabilise the globe with a costly, needless war. Thankfully there hasn't been any real sense of threat on that front, but who knows...

irishash

pixelburp wrote: »

The danger though seems to be that while economically the USA is losing its edge, it is still a power militarily; so my worry would be over Trump (or any set of hawks) could further destabilise the globe with a costly, needless war. Thankfully there hasn't been any real sense of threat on that front, but who knows...

Why do you think he keeps talking about the threat from Iran?

Further to the point made by Leroy - A lot of America is only now waking up to the fact that they are no longer the worlds production hub. China, India, Europe have all overtaken the US in production speed and quality. The world is now a global supermarket as opposed to 40 years ago when the vast majority of goods came from the US or US owned companies.

The US rested on their laurels and failed to see that they needed to stay competitive in a globalised world. While other parts of the world focused on efficiency and quality control, America waged wars and tried to convince everybody they were still the worlds leader in all aspects that matter.

Now most americans look back at their childhoods and the affordable houses, the cars, the extra income, the work bonuses, the multiple holidays per year, the 35 hour working week and wonder where did this go? They want it back. But instead of challenging their leaders to come up with new policies and ideas, they turned very quickly to populism and all that entails.

A lot of America did not vote for this and I pity them, but America is getting what it deserves for years of mis-managing their economy and it's people.

They deserve Trump and all the damage he will do.

ancapailldorcha

irishash wrote: »

They deserve Trump and all the damage he will do.

Does the whole world deserve Trump though? What about his pulling out of the Paris accords or the deal with Iran or NAFTA and how many jobs that might cost simply to appear somehow useful in front of his supporters.

ancapailldorcha

Leroy42 wrote: »

But this is exactly the model that the USA has always been based on. Capitalism, self-made man, no safety net, the market decides. It is the logical outcome of the very policies that they claim is what makes America what it is. I always laugh when I hear Americans complaining about globalisation, they fecking started it and are now simply being beaten at it by other countries.

What we are really seeing now is that many in the USA are asking for a particular form of socialism, focused on them rather then some 'welfare scroungers'. They want tariffs to protect them from outside competition, they want to stop immigration to protect them from lower paid workers etc etc.

They simply haven't realised it yet and are struggling to admit that the country that they claim to love, and claim is the best thing ever, is fundamentally flawed and are thus looking for a quick fix and someone to blame.

Well said. However, for the longest time this neoliberal consensus yielded many benefits for them. Then of course the financial sector rose and formed closed ties with the elites and began hoarding wealth for themselves when it should have been invested in anticipation of the next industrial revolution which we're now going through - AI and automation. Instead, the crash happened, the US went to war with Iraq and people were happy to disregard their elites, not without reason.

Trump isn't a solution to anything except possibly the feeling of being ignored experienced by some people and other people's desire to troll their political opponents. It's going to get worse before it gets better and tragically, the Democrats still haven't learned that "Not Trump" isn't going to get their vote out in 2020.

irishash

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Does the whole world deserve Trump though? What about his pulling out of the Paris accords or the deal with Iran or NAFTA and how many jobs that might cost simply to appear somehow useful in front of his supporters.

No, of course not. While international accords are been destroyed thanks to his idiotic behaviour, we have seen the rest of the democratic world show him that we can no longer be bullied by virtue of economic blackmail. Trump pulls out of the Iran deal, Europe and the other signatories stand firm. Trump pulls out of the Paris accord, no other countries followed him.

Thanks to the progress made that lessened the need for any kind of American support, the rest of the democratic world is showing America that they are not the tail that wags the dog anymore. It is no longer "as America goes, so does the world"

pixelburp

irishash wrote: »

No, of course not. While international accords are been destroyed thanks to his idiotic behaviour, we have seen the rest of the democratic world show him that we can no longer be bullied by virtue of economic blackmail. Trump pulls out of the Iran deal, Europe and the other signatories stand firm. Trump pulls out of the Paris accord, no other countries followed him.

Thanks to the progress made that lessened the need for any kind of American support, the rest of the democratic world is showing America that they are not the tail that wags the dog anymore. It is no longer "as America goes, so does the world"

Politically that's fine re. the Paris Accord and America cuts a lonely figure on that front, but as we've seen before and since, The Trump Admin is busy gutting a lot of its environmental regulations, while the replacement head of the EPA remains a massive Fossil Fuel shill and general anti-climateChange figurehead. These actions will hurt the rest of us if America continues to see environmentalism as a Partisan issue.

mcmoustache

Another Manafort associate, Sam Patten has been arrested.

I hadn't heard of the guy. Like the Cohen stuff, Mueller has off-loaded this one and it will be handled by the US Attorney's office in DC.

It's probably nothing major.

Patten worked for multiple political parties and office-holders in Ukraine, according to his website. He previously worked on the microtargetting operations of Cambridge Analytica during the 2014 election cycle, the Daily Beast reported in April.

His work for Cambridge Analytica was later adopted by "at least one major U.S. presidential candidate," the Daily Beast said. Patten told the publication that his work for Cambridge Analytica was separate from the work of his consulting firm.

According to the Daily Beast, he also ran a political consulting company with Konstantin Kilimnik. This is a guy that I have heard of as he's one of the links between Trump Campaign Manager Manafort and Russian Intelligence.

Begemot Ventures International was incorporated in February 2015, occupying an office on Constitution Avenue. Like other firms in the nation’s capital it offered services catering to the politically inclined. But unlike those other shops, Begemot had executives tied not just to an alleged Russian influence campaign, but also a controversial data firm that would later help elect President Donald Trump.

The space that the firm continues to occupy also houses the offices of Sam Patten, a Republican lobbyist and foreign policy consultant who had previously worked to hone the firm Cambridge Analytica’s microtargeting operation during the 2014 midterm election cycle. They don’t just share a location either. Patten is listed as one of two Begemot executives in D.C. incorporation records.

The other is Konstantin Kilimnik, who is currently front-and-center in the federal investigation into Russian government meddling in the 2016 presidential election. A recent court filing by Mueller alleged that “Person A”—believed to be Kilimnik—“has ties to Russian intelligence service and had such ties in 2016.”

Leroy42

pixelburp wrote: »

Politically that's fine re. the Paris Accord and America cuts a lonely figure on that front, but as we've seen before and since, The Trump Admin is busy gutting a lot of its environmental regulations, while the replacement head of the EPA remains a massive Fossil Fuel shill and general anti-climateChange figurehead. These actions will hurt the rest of us if America refuses to see environmentalism as a Partisan issue.

Didn't he come out shortly after taking office and state that he know accepts climate change and mans responsibility for it? I was pretty sure he had said that when he reviewed the information he had no option but to agree.

Maybe I was dreaming all that?