Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread X: [****]

Clegg · 13-11-2018 9:43pm

Feel awful for Tomane. And with Ferg out for the foreseeable we're starting to struggle for depth on the wings. But it now presents Adam Byrne with an opportunity to impress. He's still one of the best finishers in the squad even if his all round game needs working on. Still a potentially huge talent for me. Just 24 years old.

Squidgy Black · 13-11-2018 10:12pm

Clegg wrote: »

Feel awful for Tomane. And with Ferg out for the foreseeable we're starting to struggle for depth on the wings. But it now presents Adam Byrne with an opportunity to impress. He's still one of the best finishers in the squad even if his all round game needs working on. Still a potentially huge talent for me. Just 24 years old.

Are we though? Lowe, Larmour, Byrne, Dave Kearney, ROL can play wing, and then you've the younger guys in the academy like Jimmy and Tommy O'Brien, Hugo Keenan, Jack Kelly. I wouldn't say we're struggling for depth, certainly not as strong with Tomane and Daly out injured but we're not in a crisis that would require cover at all.

Interested Observer · 13-11-2018 10:14pm

Is Barry Daly back any time soon?

Squidgy Black · 13-11-2018 10:15pm

Interested Observer wrote: »

Is Barry Daly back any time soon?

Last update on him was last month, stating it was a long term injury.

Interested Observer · 13-11-2018 10:19pm

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Last update on him was last month, stating it was a long term injury.

Ok thanks, not good news so. Very good squad player.

Richie_Rich89 · 13-11-2018 10:31pm

If an extra body was needed, the best option would be to bring Ian Fitzpatrick back into the squad for a bit. But I really can't see there actually being a shortage. Tom Daly and Conor O'Brien playing at 12 has seen Tomane pushed to the wing, where there really isn't any scarcity of bodies. Before newer players like Sylvester and O'Sullivan (who was capped by Wasps at 17), there's Lowe, Byrne, DK and Keenan. Lots of options.

Sometimes I think there's ignorance or entitlement or lack of perspective from some Leinster fans. Leinster's best IQ non-capped backline would probably be: 9. O'Sullivan, 10. Frawley, 11. Barry Daly, 12. COB/Tom Daly, 13. JOB/Mullin, 14. Keenan, 15. Kelly; 21. Patterson, 22. Harry Byrne, 23. Tommy O'Brien. These are the very best Leinster have below guys who have been capped at Test level. The other provinces pick non-capped players all the time. Is it so terrible to think that Leinster might have to pick one or two non-capped backs for one or two games? I really don't get the hand-wringing and despair from some quarters when an experienced player gets injured.

Clegg · 13-11-2018 11:43pm

It's not ignorance or entitlement I think. Leinster lose a lot of senior players for a month in November and two months during Six Nations time. The academy players get a run out at that time, but it's the experienced NIQ players that get is through those periods with wins. They're the guys our younger lads look to for leadership. For years Nacewa was the shining light for Leinster when internationals were away. Losing Tomane is a blow whether you rate him as a player or not.

Thermoman12 · 13-11-2018 11:56pm

sellit90000 wrote: »

Leinster 2nd row options

Senior
James Ryan(22/St. Michaels/UCD)
Scott Fardy(34)
Devin Toner(32/Castleknock/Lansdowne)
Ross Molony(24/St. Michaels/UCD)
Mick Kearney(27/Clontarf)

Academy-Sub-Academy
Oisin Dowling(21/St. Michaels/Lansdowne)
Jack Dunne(19/St. Michaels/DUFC)
Ryan Baird(19/St. Michaels/DUFC)
Charlie Ryan(19/Blackrock/UCD)

The amount of 2nd rows Michaels are producing is ridiculous

Richie_Rich89 · 14-11-2018 12:14am

Clegg wrote: »

It's not ignorance or entitlement I think. Leinster lose a lot of senior players for a month in November and two months during Six Nations time. The academy players get a run out at that time, but it's the experienced NIQ players that get is through those periods with wins. They're the guys our younger lads look to for leadership. For years Nacewa was the shining light for Leinster when internationals were away. Losing Tomane is a blow whether you rate him as a player or not.

I have to say I don't really see it. Tomane got pushed out to 11, and Daly and COB were playing 12. But he's not really needed at 11 cos Lowe and DK are there.

Ulster have Kernohan and Lowry in their first-choice XV all the time. The equivalent would be Leinster having Kelly and Silvester in their first team for the big games. Instead, Leinster have to pick more developed players like COB and Keenan for a few games a year and yet we have people running around with their hair on fire?

Former Former · 14-11-2018 12:33am

Tomane didn't move to the wing because COB was playing 12, he moved because we had quite literally no one else to play on the wing.

Leinster are not shy about giving young guys a chance when they deserve it. The reality is a lot of them don't. Simply getting into the academy doesn't mean you're good enough to be a pro.

Ulster do play a lot of youngsters but then again a) they don't have any choice and b) Ulster aren't very good, so I'm not sure what that proves.

If all these guys are up to it, they'll get plenty of chances. If they don't, then that's your answer.

Richie_Rich89 · 14-11-2018 12:57am

Former Former wrote: »

Tomane didn't move to the wing because COB was playing 12, he moved because we had quite literally no one else to play on the wing.

Leinster are not shy about giving young guys a chance when they deserve it. The reality is a lot of them don't. Simply getting into the academy doesn't mean you're good enough to be a pro.

Ulster do play a lot of youngsters but then again a) they don't have any choice and b) Ulster aren't very good, so I'm not sure what that proves.

If all these guys are up to it, they'll get plenty of chances. If they don't, then that's your answer.

They could have put DK at 11, or picked Kearney instead of Fardy so selecting Lowe was possible, but I suppose there's a bit of robbing Peter to pay Paul in those reshuffles. Keenan on the wing could have been an option.

Anyway, my overarching feeling is that COB or Daly at 12, and Keenan on the wing or Frawley/Kelly at fullback isn't going to hurt Leinster unduly for a handful of games

A. 11. DK, 12. COB/Daly, 15. Frawley/Kelly

or

B. 11. Keenan, 12. COB/Daly, 15. DK

...looks good to me, and that's before you consider McGrath's return allowing Lowe to be picked

sellit90000 · 14-11-2018 9:24am

Wing Options

Fergus McFadden(32) - injured, long term
Dave Kearney(29) - status unknown
Joe Tomane(28) - injured, long term
Barry Daly(26) - injured, long term
James Lowe(26) - healthy
Adam Byrne(24) - healthy
Rory O'Loughlin(24) - injured, severity unknown
Hugo Keenan(22) - healthy
Jordan Larmour(21) - healthy
Jack Kelly(21) - healthy
Tommy O'Brien(20) - injured, return soon
Michael Silvester(20) - healthy
Aaron O'Sullivan(18) - healthy

Interested Observer · 14-11-2018 9:30am

sellit90000 wrote: »

Wing Options

Fergus McFadden(32) - injured, long term
Dave Kearney(29) - status unknown
Joe Tomane(28) - injured, long term
Barry Daly(26) - injured, long term
James Lowe(26) - healthy
Adam Byrne(24) - healthy
Rory O'Loughlin(24) - injured, severity unknown
Hugo Keenan(22) - healthy
Jordan Larmour(21) - healthy
Jack Kelly(21) - healthy
Tommy O'Brien(20) - injured, return soon
Michael Silvester(20) - healthy
Aaron O'Sullivan(18) - healthy

Only Larmour and Lowe out of the fit players are really good enough for Europe. Really need them both to stay fit.

molloyjh · 14-11-2018 9:30am

Losing Tomane for that long is a blow. Especially during the international windows. Means we need to play Lowe really. And with Luke in Ireland camp we’ll need JGP vs Ospreys. So Fardy misses out. That leaves us with only Molony and Kearney in the second row plus A N Other in the bench. Far from an ideal scenario.

Former Former · 14-11-2018 9:55am

Why is Dave Kearney "status unknown"? Did something else happen him?

14-11-2018 9:58am

Former Former wrote: »

Why is Dave Kearney "status unknown"? Did something else happen him?

Yeah it was in the news last week. Quite sad actually but it was the right time. They told him he was Rob's brother.

sellit90000 · 14-11-2018 9:58am

Former Former wrote: »

Why is Dave Kearney "status unknown"? Did something else happen him?

He went off injured in SA no?

AdamD · 14-11-2018 12:11pm

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

I have to say I don't really see it. Tomane got pushed out to 11, and Daly and COB were playing 12. But he's not really needed at 11 cos Lowe and DK are there.

Ulster have Kernohan and Lowry in their first-choice XV all the time. The equivalent would be Leinster having Kelly and Silvester in their first team for the big games. Instead, Leinster have to pick more developed players like COB and Keenan for a few games a year and yet we have people running around with their hair on fire?

How's that going for Ulster?

molloyjh · 14-11-2018 12:50pm

Hard to know what kind of team we'll see for the Ospreys game given that it's 6 days after the NZ game and the day before the USA game. We won't have any of the starters from this weekend available, and likely won't have guys like Ruddock, Conan or Byrne available either due to the USA game. With Tomane now out for the next while we'll also feel the pinch with the foreign player rule. We'll need Lowe on and JGP must start if we don't have either of Sexton or Byrne available. So that means no Fardy. If ROL isn't available either we could be in real trouble here (he was apparently seen in a moon boot earlier this week). Anyone know what the story is with Dave Kearney? Came off vs the Kings but haven't seen an update.

Byrne Tracy Bent
Molony Kearney
Murphy Deegan Doris

JGP Reid
Daly COB
Lowe Kearney Byrne

Dooley, Byrne, Abdaladze, ???, Penny, HOS, Frawley, JOB

Players likely to be missing:
Healy, McGrath, Cronin, Furlong, Porter, Toner, Ryan, Fardy, Ruddock, Leavy, VDF, SOB, Conan, Connors, McGrath, Sexton, Byrne, Henshaw, Ringrose, ROL, Larmour, Rob, Tomane, McFadden, Daly.

That's 25 players! Talk about properly bonkers!

stephen_n · 14-11-2018 12:55pm

Got to assume since we let Nagle go, they’re either going to trust McCarthy and play Fardy. Or else they feel one of the academy locks is up to speed to bench. Who got the most game time for the A’s this season?

molloyjh · 14-11-2018 12:59pm

stephen_n wrote: »

Got to assume since we let Nagle go, they’re either going to trust McCarthy and play Fardy. Or else they feel one of the academy locks is up to speed to bench. Who got the most game time for the A’s this season?

Haven't really been following the As that closely, but I think Nagle and Kearney both played a fair bit for them. With both Sexton and Byrne gone I can't see us starting McCarthy or HOS with Reid. But maybe against a weakened Ospreys we might.

sellit90000 · 14-11-2018 1:01pm

Dunne or Dowling on bench.

Richie_Rich89 · 14-11-2018 1:02pm

AdamD wrote: »

How's that going for Ulster?

Pretty well, considering? They're second in their Pro14 conference (third overall), and are still in the mix in Europe.

My point anyhow was that it's not as if Leinster have to resort to picking as many youngsters as Ulster. We're not going to see Leinster consistently picking last year's U20s and guys who are still eligible for the U20s this year.

We're talking about picking two rather than one from COB/Daly, Keenan, Kelly/Frawley for a handful of games. I was saying that's a long way from what Ulster are having to do.

Keenan's the obvious one to look to if there's a hole that needs to be filled. He's been exposed to big crowds and high pressure situations with the 7s, so he's much more likely to be able to hit the ground running that an academy player who hasn't had these experiences. We've seen Baloucoune and Sgane Daly look comfortable at this level straight off the bat already this season

And anyway, these supposed injury crises nearly always turn out to be not as bad as first feared. Someone usually gets back up and running just in time

arsebiscuits1 · 14-11-2018 1:15pm

I know the coaches are backing Reid and he's clearly showed them he's ready to take the reigns at 10.

But I would love to see Frawley get some serious time there. Home in the RDS to a depleted Ospreys side might be just that chance to give him a start.

I haven't seen much to say he will be a top class outhalf. But he's showing about as much as Byrne did when he first came on the scene.

Former Former · 14-11-2018 1:22pm

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

I know the coaches are backing Reid and he's clearly showed them he's ready to take the reigns at 10.

But I would love to see Frawley get some serious time there. Home in the RDS to a depleted Ospreys side might be just that chance to give him a start.

I haven't seen much to say he will be a top class outhalf. But he's showing about as much as Byrne did when he first came on the scene.

We're likely to be even more depleted than the Ospreys... 26 senior players missing (assuming ROL is gone too), we will need all the experience we can get on the field so they'll probably have to go with Reid.

jacothelad · 14-11-2018 1:33pm

AdamD wrote: »

How's that going for Ulster?

It has been very encouraging. Have you not seen those two guys play? Lowry looks a really great prospect. Kernohan and Balacoune look excellent too and the interesting Aaron Sexton is too young to play as yet.

Ulster simply have no choice however. Consider how any other team would fare if they had lost players of this quality from one season to the next with no replacements............Paul Marshall, Jackson, Olding, Bowe, Trimble, Payne, Piutau, Ludik, Luke Marshall and now also Deysel, Browne and Chris Henry.

Ulster are running on fumes.

sellit90000 · 14-11-2018 1:52pm

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

I know the coaches are backing Reid and he's clearly showed them he's ready to take the reigns at 10.

But I would love to see Frawley get some serious time there. Home in the RDS to a depleted Ospreys side might be just that chance to give him a start.

I haven't seen much to say he will be a top class outhalf. But he's showing about as much as Byrne did when he first came on the scene.

Ehhh, no he hasn't.

Byrne had much more pedigree and experience at outhalf than Frawley has now.

Frawley was viewed as a future 12 or possibly 15 for much of last season.

stephen_n · 14-11-2018 2:33pm

jacothelad wrote: »

It has been very encouraging. Have you not seen those two guys play? Lowry looks a really great prospect. Kernohan and Balacoune look excellent too and the interesting Aaron Sexton is too young to play as yet.

Ulster simply have no choice however. Consider how any other team would fare if they had lost players of this quality from one season to the next with no replacements............Paul Marshall, Jackson, Olding, Bowe, Trimble, Payne, Piutau, Ludik, Luke Marshall and now also Deysel, Browne and Chris Henry.

Ulster are running on fumes.

In the long term it will be great for Ulster, in the short term it delivers beatings like the Munster game. For Ulster it’s a matter of no other choice, for Leinster it’s not quite there yet. Though a few more injuries and we may be fielding the 20’s. The notion mooted by that poster is that it won’t affect results and that’s simply not true.

Thermoman12 · 14-11-2018 2:33pm

AdamD wrote: »

How's that going for Ulster?

It’s going well, they beat Leicster doing it and the younger players got a good experience

Burkie1203 · 14-11-2018 2:35pm

Thermoman12 wrote: »

It’s going well, they beat Leicster doing it and the younger players got a good experience

They lost 64-7 to Munster or something too. That shows that the young guys need developing. Just throwing them all out on the park together isn't development.

Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread X: [****]

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