Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread X: [****]

Buer

stephen_n wrote: »

I can't remember any of the games that Leavy played 8 for us, so have no real frame of reference for how he plays there. One way or another I'm sure the coaches have confidence in him, so will be interesting to see how he goes.

I vaguely recall the Glasgow game. He played like a flanker at 8. Kept it very simple, front five controlled things and he just stopped the ball at the back of the scrum. Around the field, he just played his normal game which was very good.

It's a physical Bath pack but I've no issue with him at 8 for this game; Mercer being out for Bath means they're playing 3 flankers too and will be looking to muddy things at the breakdown. It could actually work out really well for us.

Buer

troyzer wrote: »

He's a professional, worst case scenario he just struggles and is off. But it's not like he would be a liability, leaving huge gaps in defense and coughing up the ball. He's still Dan Leavy.

Because it's a massive crunch game and he's not familiar with the set up at 8 at all. In general play, he's just another back row player but, in a wet weather game on a heavy pitch, he's going to have his ball skills examined and potentially be dealing with some very sloppy possession at the back of a scrum whether it's advancing or retreating. He might well be very comfortable but it's a highly unusual time for it to be looked at.

randomname2005

Buer wrote: »

Because it's a massive crunch game and he's not familiar with the set up at 8 at all. In general play, he's just another back row player but, in a wet weather game on a heavy pitch, he's going to have his ball skills examined and potentially be dealing with some very sloppy possession at the back of a scrum whether it's advancing or retreating. He might well be very comfortable but it's a highly unusual time for it to be looked at.

This! Thanks Buer. I have no concern about his ability in general play, but have concerns about ball control. 'Full time' number 8s can struggle at times.

Squidgy Black

I think the main concern would be ball control, if our scrum goes backwards will he be able to pick from the base of a retreating scrum without dropping, will he be able to keep the ball at his feet if we're going forward and not boot it back into the second row.

Granny15

I'd be more concerned about his size. 8 is a very attritional position and you have to be a hard b8ll8x as well as being big physically. Is Leavy big enough I'm not sure he is - might get carried back a few times.

molloyjh

Do people actually expect our scrum to be in trouble tomorrow though? Surely our front five should be more than capable of holding their own, at least?

Granny15

Ryan and Toner don't bring much needed oomph around the park although they are tidy footballers. Front 3 should gain parity with the opposition but I'd be concerned Bath have more brawn than us.

arsebiscuits1

Granny15 wrote: »

I'd be more concerned about his size. 8 is a very attritional position and you have to be a hard b8ll8x as well as being big physically. Is Leavy big enough I'm not sure he is - might get carried back a few times.

Conan: 1.93m. 110kgs
Deegan: 1.93m. 109kgs
Doris: 1.93m. 106kgs
Ruddock: 1.91m. 110kgs
SOB: 1.88m. 108kgs
Leavy: 1.91m. 106kgs

He's fine.

arsebiscuits1

Granny15 wrote: »

Ryan and Toner don't bring much needed oomph around the park although they are tidy footballers. Front 3 should gain parity with the opposition but I'd be concerned Bath have more brawn than us.

James Ryan is probably the most consistent gainline carrier for Leinster and Ireland this season in tight channels.

Buer

molloyjh wrote: »

Do people actually expect our scrum to be in trouble tomorrow though? Surely our front five should be more than capable of holding their own, at least?

It doesn't have to be in trouble. It can be as hard to control the ball in a scrum that's advancing as it is to deal with going backwards. The fact that the pitch was in ****e last week and it is due to be raining again tomorrow, adds another angle.

I think he'll be grand. They'll just play it very simple but I do think we'll lose an attacking option most definitely by not having Conan there. He was brilliant in the double header last season against Exeter including a rain soaked Sandy Park; if fit, I'd love to see him starting here.

Granny15

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

James Ryan is probably the most consistent gainline carrier for Leinster and Ireland this season in tight channels.

I see us probably getting on top of their front 5 in the last 20 so it's just an observation of the first 10/20 mins where their physicality might give them an edge in all areas not just carrying.

arsebiscuits1

Granny15 wrote: »

I see us probably getting on top of their front 5 in the last 20 so it's just an observation of the first 10/20 mins where their physicality might give them an edge in all areas not just carrying.

I just don't see how you come to that conclusion.

4 of the starting 5 are the first choice for Ireland and just demonstrated in November some mind bogglingly good ball retention, ruck work, tackling and all around work rate.

You say "our front 5"

Putting that in perspective - you're saying Cian Healy, Tadgh Furlong, Sean Cronin, Devin Toner and James Ryan with their 250+ combined international caps are going to be physically dominated?

Buer

I think in terms of pure physical power, that Bath front five can match us. But the mobility of our front five should have them in all sorts of trouble. A heavy pitch will be a serious drain on their legs and the work rate of guys like Healy, Furlong and Toner around the pitch should have them gassed

I think we'll see a relatively cagey and tight affair for the opening stages but their legs will hopefully tire when we reach the half hour mark and that's when someone like Luke McGrath could start to see little gaps opening up on the fringes.

Dog Botherer

Granny15 wrote: »

Ryan and Toner don't bring much needed oomph around the park although they are tidy footballers. Front 3 should gain parity with the opposition but I'd be concerned Bath have more brawn than us.

Granny15

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

I just don't see how you come to that conclusion.

4 of the starting 5 are the first choice for Ireland and just demonstrated in November some mind bogglingly good ball retention, ruck work, tackling and all around work rate.

You say "our front 5"

Putting that in perspective - you're saying Cian Healy, Tadgh Furlong, Sean Cronin, Devin Toner and James Ryan with their 250+ combined international caps are going to be physically dominated?

Bath are quite big physically. Both our second rows wouldnt be renowned for their bone crunching physicality - more technicality and athleticism. I just think it will be quite attritional for the first hour or so.

Granny15

Dog Botherer wrote: »

Whilst its a good tag team hit i wouldn't say its bone crunching. Bone shuddering hits are when the opposition can't get back up after them. The point remains both our second rows are slight for their frames not beefy.

Buer

Granny15 wrote: »

Bath are quite big physically. Both our second rows wouldnt be renowned for their bond crunching physicality - more technicality and athleticism. I just think it will be quite attritional for the first hour or so.

They're physically big. But they're no bigger than our own pack. We've faced bigger packs including Toulouse in the last round or Montpellier. Bath have a big pack but no monsters like Tekori or Faumauina.

I would say Furlong and Healy are comfortably the most powerful front five forwards on the field tomorrow, relative to their size (which is not small).

arsebiscuits1

Granny15 wrote: »

Bath are quite big physically. Both our second rows wouldnt be renowned for their bone crunching physicality - more technicality and athleticism. I just think it will be quite attritional for the first hour or so.

bone crunching physicality < technicality and athleticism


Every. Single. Time.

Squidgy Black

We don't need bone crunching physicality with the way we play. Look at the Ospreys game, we had short offloads in the carry and broke the gain line almost every time. Brawn !> Brains.

thegreycity

BoNe CruNcHInG pHysICaLiTy

Granny15

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

bone crunching physicality < technicality and athleticism


Every. Single. Time.

I’d have to agree. We have faced bigger. I just don’t want us taking them lightly

Podge_irl

Granny15 wrote: »

I’d have to agree. We have faced bigger. I just don’t want us taking them lightly

With the obvious proviso that what we say doesn't actually matter - there is a difference between taking a team lightly and false modesty. Leinster are the better team, by far, and should rather easily win in the end. Bath are doing terribly in the premiership.

Former Former

The best team doesn't always win of course, but that Leinster team is much, much better than that Bath team.

Granny15

Podge_irl wrote: »

With the obvious proviso that what we say doesn't actually matter - there is a difference between taking a team lightly and false modesty. Leinster are the better team, by far, and should rather easily win in the end. Bath are doing terribly in the premiership.

The result there vs Toulouse was close. Obviously what is said here has no bearing on anyone. I just think it will be closer than some posters think

Clegg

The condition of the pitch will play a big role tomorrow. It's been raining today and it rained yesterday too with more forecast for tomorrow. It's going to be a bog fight. I think we'll win, but maybe not with a try bonus.

Buer

Granny15 wrote: »

The result there vs Toulouse was close. Obviously what is said here has no bearing on anyone. I just think it will be closer than some posters think

I rate Bath. They're a dangerous side. The issue is they've been decimated by injury to almost all of their key players and now, since the Toulouse match, they're also without three more key players in Burns, Priestland and Mercer.

James Wilson is playing outhalf tomorrow. He returned from the NPC with Southland two weeks ago and has 15 minutes of rugby with Bath under his belt from last weekend. He's a 35 year old journeyman.

We should be beating them with room to spare at this stage.

Clegg

Bath team btw. Don't think it's been posted yet. Very good backrow if unbalanced. Louw isn't an 8, but neither is Leavy. In terms of personnel I think we shave it though....

15. Ruaridh McConnochie

14. Semesa Rokoduguni

13. Jackson Willison

12. Jamie Roberts

11. Joe Cokanasiga

10. James Wilson

9. Will Chudley

1. Nathan Catt

2. Tom Dunn

3. Henry Thomas

4. Dave Attwood

5. Charlie Ewels (c)

6. Tom Ellis

7. Sam Underhill

8. Francois Louw

Replacements

16. Jack Walker

17. Jacques van Rooyen

18. Max Lahiff

19. Elliott Stooke

20. Matt Garvey

21. Kahn Fotuali

22. Cooper Vuna

23. Alex Davies

durkadurka

We really should be giving these lads a hidin.

The back row is decent but jaysus the half backs ...

Leinster are a very hard team to beat. They are generally fitter than the opposition and are showcasing better skills and cohesion.

We've looked more like a Super Rugby franchise the last two weeks albeit with a slightly more defensive focus.

I think the game will be put to bed by half time.

Larbre34

Clegg wrote: »

The condition of the pitch will play a big role tomorrow. It's been raining today and it rained yesterday too with more forecast for tomorrow. It's going to be a bog fight. I think we'll win, but maybe not with a try bonus.

Absolutely. If we come away with only 4 pts but no significant injuries on that mire I'll be very content.