Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread X: [****]

troyzer

We're not doing too badly. Only two points behind and we should get a bonus next week.

Toulouse probably will as well because I doubt Wasps will be arsed showing up.

So yeah, it'll come down to the game in the RDS assuming the last week is a damp rag after Wasps and Bath give up.

Buer

salmocab wrote: »

Not a great performance today but the extra week and a decent Aviva pitch I’d be fairly confident of a good 5 point win. Sexton a bit of a worry but Byrne is more than capable of doing the job.

For the first time in quite a while, I'd be quite happy to see someone else start instead of Sexton. The pack is going to set the tone next week and Byrne is more than capable of directing play at this stage. Dare I say, we looked a bit more fluid in the final 10 minutes when he was on. Sexton looked very uncomfortable coming off; he can rest up for the final two games as we're going to need him much more in those two when we're trying to beat Toulouse and, hopefully, pushing for a BP in Coventry.

He only touched the ball 3 or 4 times but he had a very positive influence in that spell. He threw a nice flat pass on his own line to Lowe to create the kick downfield which led to the decisive penalty (which he slotted) and then also showed good awareness to switch play back to the other side when attacking and slide through a very good kick late on which Bath dealt with well.

But we will need to improve significnatly from today. Bath are a better side than many give them credit for but we still should have been out of sight by the end. We turned over too much ball in their territory and should have scored at least one more with the spell just before half time or after Ringrose's break.

Our line out needs attention again. It is wobbling at critical times still and just when we're turning the screw, we've given the opposition easy ways out.

Whilst we've looked brilliant in the league featuring our squad players, I don't think we're yet to fire at all with our first choice selection aside from 40 minutes against Wasps.

I'd hope to see Fardy involved next week. We really could have done with him there today when the going was getting tough and legs were tired. His smarts and niggle would have been a huge boost.

Lastly, that's the second big fixture we've tried to play someone at 8 who has barely featured there in recent seasons and on both occasions it has not worked out. Whilst SOB's effort against Munster wasn't quite so bad, Leavy was completely at sea today and a liability at the back of the scrum. Even Conan didn't have it easy at the base in those heavy conditions. It was very risky and borderline foolhardy to play Leavy there.

jacothelad

The team are rusty and underdone and possibly a suffering a little from an adrenaline deflatation after the ABs game. Next week they'll be back on the horse.

jacothelad

jacothelad wrote: »

The team are rusty and underdone and possibly a suffering a little from an adrenaline deflatation after the ABs game. Next week they'll be back on the horse.

They usually would have got that out of their system last week v Munster but that’s been canned and most of them didn’t play.

I’d agree, I’d also expect them to put in a much better game next week.

sydthebeat

On better ground and in front of 51000 fans.... They bloody well would want to be a lot better.

Lets see how we are with injuries though

Buer

Buer wrote: »

For the first time in quite a while, I'd be quite happy to see someone else start instead of Sexton. The pack is going to set the tone next week and Byrne is more than capable of directing play at this stage. Dare I say, we looked a bit more fluid in the final 10 minutes when he was on. Sexton looked very uncomfortable coming off; he can rest up for the final two games as we're going to need him much more in those two when we're trying to beat Toulouse and, hopefully, pushing for a BP in Coventry.

He only touched the ball 3 or 4 times but he had a very positive influence in that spell. He threw a nice flat pass on his own line to Lowe to create the kick downfield which led to the decisive penalty (which he slotted) and then also showed good awareness to switch play back to the other side when attacking and slide through a very good kick late on which Bath dealt with well.

But we will need to improve significnatly from today. Bath are a better side than many give them credit for but we still should have been out of site by the end. We turned over too much ball in their territory and should have scored at least one more with the spell just before half time or after Ringrose's break.

Our line out needs attention again. It is wobbling at critical times still and just when we're turning the screw, we've given the opposition easy ways out.

Whilst we've looked brilliant in the league featuring our squad players, I don't think we're yet to fire at all with our first choice selection aside from 40 minutes against Wasps.

I'd hope to see Fardy involved next week. We really could have done with him there today when the going was getting tough and legs were tired. His smarts and niggle would have been a huge boost.

Lastly, that's the second big fixture we've tried to play someone at 8 who has barely featured there in recent seasons and on both occasions it has not worked out. Whilst SOB's effort against Munster wasn't quite so bad, Leavy was completely at sea today and a liability at the back of the scrum. Even Conan didn't have it easy at the base in those heavy conditions. It was very risky and borderline foolhardy to play Leavy there.

I'd have no reservations about Byrne. I'm completely sold on him defensively, he put in two important tackles for us today against much bigger lads in the final passage of play and he has no issue barking and shunting to get the defensive line the way he wants it.

He's holding onto the ball a bit more and moving the ball flatter but he's still nowhere near the threat of Sexton, he wouldn't have been able to pull off Sexton's loop and break today for example. Sexton's actually a good deal faster, I think Byrne might end up having a bit of an issue with top end speed. I'd say it's a part of why Joe would favour Carbery. When he made the break, Sexton gave a subtle call when the ball was held up and everyone got right to where they were meant to be, Sexton held his shape well and then gave it top gear around the back - Bath were at sea. Teams know full well he's going to do it at least once a game, yet they often cough up a clean break on it - I reckon it's because they underestimate his speed. He doesn't look fast, but he's got gas.

For all that though he didn't quite look like the Worlds best player today and I think Byrne might have made better use of our wings at times. The commentators had picked up on our wingers hugging the touch line before Bath did, but when he kicked, Sexton favoured garryowens all day.

Byrne's distribution and fielding have been top notch, you would be very comfortable with him starting next week. I'd still hope Sexton is back however, this is actually a very important game for us and anything less than 5 points is moving us into problem territory as Toulouse look like they will surely pick up full points.

The Aviva you would imagine will be in better condition than the REC, it's more sheltered and there will be a much bigger crowd. Sexton generally delivers on these kinds of occasions and truth be told, we're second best to Toulouse so far in this pool and we need to demonstrate why it is that we're good enough to progress.

I'd also hope the back row situation is sorted. Those players looked out of sorts and I've no idea why Conan didn't start. Maybe He's not fully fit but I think the coaches were looking to get Ruddock, Leavy and VDF on the pitch at once to have a look. I think that sends a really worrying message to Conan and he was probably the only one that didn't look ordinary when he came on.

Home semi is slipping away a bit, Saracens and Racing both home tomorrow with a good chance of picking up 5.

Buer

Deleted User wrote: »

Home semi is slipping away a bit, Saracens and Racing both home tomorrow with a good chance of picking up 5.

Yup although you'd struggle to trust Racing on the road too much. You never know with them.

If someone offered us 5th seeds right now, I'd probably take it based on the fact that a win away to the 4th seeds which could be away to Edinburgh, Newcastle or Munster leading to a guaranteed home semi final.

If we finish 3rd or 4th, we're looking at an away semi final possibly against Saracens which would be a big ask.

Burkie1203

Buer wrote: »

Yup although you'd struggle to trust Racing on the road too much. You never know with them.

If someone offered us 5th seeds right now, I'd probably take it based on the fact that a win away to the 4th seeds which could be away to Edinburgh, Newcastle or Munster leading to a guaranteed home semi final.

If we finish 3rd or 4th, we're looking at an away semi final possibly against Saracens which would be a big ask.

Ulster and/or Tigers beat Racing is best bet for a home SF

Shefwedfan

Not sure what people expected today. The REC is a bog and is absolutely soaked. Last week was a 7-7 trudge fest on that pitch.

Woodie etc talked about it during the week and said it just holds water, it is so heavy. It has not stopped raining so I would guess it was like trying to play in a field with a layer of water underneath it

I can see Sexton playing next week and then off till the next European match....no run out over the holidays.....


Can't see him not playing in Aviva in front of full house. Also a lot of late late hits on him today. it was mentioned a few times by BT and it was off camera. He will be looking for payback.....

Some Yoke

Is there anything to be said for a larmour ringrose centre partnership, with a bit of dave kearney on the wing?

The Pheasant2

It's something we've seen a good bit of, but I'm really starting to wonder if someone might have a word with Sexton about how he interacts with referees.
He's actually so belligerent.
Obviously he's such a competitor I can understand how frustrated he must get but he really needs to reign it in before it costs us when it actually matters - in that vein I'm fairly surprised he doesn't appear to be restraining himself as it strikes me as precisely the kind of thing I can imagine Schmidt losing it over should it cost us.

Neil3030

The Pheasant2 wrote: »

It's something we've seen a good bit of, but I'm really starting to wonder if someone might have a word with Sexton about how he interacts with referees.
He's actually so belligerent.
Obviously he's such a competitor I can understand how frustrated he must get but he really needs to reign it in before it costs us when it actually matters - in that vein I'm fairly surprised he doesn't appear to be restraining himself as it strikes me as precisely the kind of thing I can imagine Schmidt losing it over should it cost us.

Has Sexton's interaction with referees once cost his team a single decision?

crisco10

Neil3030 wrote: »

Has Sexton's interaction with referees once cost his team a single decision?

That's impossible to know. What is clear is that a lot of refs don't appreciate the way he speaks to them

Granny15

Some Yoke wrote: »

Is there anything to be said for a larmour ringrose centre partnership, with a bit of dave kearney on the wing?

Eh no

Shefwedfan

The Pheasant2 wrote: »

It's something we've seen a good bit of, but I'm really starting to wonder if someone might have a word with Sexton about how he interacts with referees.
He's actually so belligerent.
Obviously he's such a competitor I can understand how frustrated he must get but he really needs to reign it in before it costs us when it actually matters - in that vein I'm fairly surprised he doesn't appear to be restraining himself as it strikes me as precisely the kind of thing I can imagine Schmidt losing it over should it cost us.

He was actually fairly restrained. The breakdown was a mess and Bath got the edge, then he pinged Leinster for something he let Bath away with. Every other captain in the World would point it out like he did....what happened next, Leinster got a penalty....you have to pick your moment and not be in the ref ear all game and he picked his moment and made his point very clearly


Also in terms of the McGrath beheading.....even the commentators said he held back.... even the touch judge told the ref it was a yellow card and he still went with his first decision before the replays, which is great and it speeds up the game but if Sexton was a bad captain that was a stage he could of went nuts



his method when he does talk to them is lets just say forcefull but lets take Heaslip for example, he was too much of a mate to the ref and couldnt get his point across.

errlloyd

Buer wrote: »

If someone offered us 5th seeds right now, I'd probably take it based on the fact that a win away to the 4th seeds which could be away to Edinburgh, Newcastle or Munster leading to a guaranteed home semi final.

I've been banging this drum for a while. 5th can be better than 3rd in terms of winning the compeition. This season looks like a prime example.

The Pheasant2

Shefwedfan wrote: »

He was actually fairly restrained. The breakdown was a mess and Bath got the edge, then he pinged Leinster for something he let Bath away with. Every other captain in the World would point it out like he did....what happened next, Leinster got a penalty....you have to pick your moment and not be in the ref ear all game and he picked his moment and made his point very clearly


Also in terms of the McGrath beheading.....even the commentators said he held back.... even the touch judge told the ref it was a yellow card and he still went with his first decision before the replays, which is great and it speeds up the game but if Sexton was a bad captain that was a stage he could of went nuts



his method when he does talk to them is lets just say forcefull but lets take Heaslip for example, he was too much of a mate to the ref and couldnt get his point across.

I agree it's important to get your point across and of course this requires a degree of assertion but Sexton still takes it too far if you ask me - Raynal had to ask him on a couple of occasions yesterday to reign it in.

Referees aren't automatons, they're human and even if it shouldn't, there's no way this behaviour does anything to endear us to them and in some cases it outright antagonises them. In professional sport where the margins are just so fine it's only a matter of time before it costs us if you ask me.
Sexton should absolutely be communicative, but he far exceeds that, to the point of petulance - if I as a lifelong Leinster fan am cringing watching his interactions with the ref I can only imagine how it's viewed by neutrals and other referees. It's just not a good look.

thebaz

The Pheasant2 wrote: »

It's something we've seen a good bit of, but I'm really starting to wonder if someone might have a word with Sexton about how he interacts with referees.
He's actually so belligerent.
Obviously he's such a competitor I can understand how frustrated he must get but he really needs to reign it in before it costs us when it actually matters - in that vein I'm fairly surprised he doesn't appear to be restraining himself as it strikes me as precisely the kind of thing I can imagine Schmidt losing it over should it cost us.

perhaps he's slightly pissed off about the way he has been targetted down the years -

The Pheasant2

The Pheasant2 wrote: »

I agree it's important to get your point across and of course this requires a degree of assertion but Sexton still takes it too far if you ask me - Raynal had to ask him on a couple of occasions yesterday to reign it in.

Referees aren't automatons, they're human and even if it shouldn't, there's no way this behaviour does anything to endear us to them and in some cases it outright antagonises them. In professional sport where the margins are just so fine it's only a matter of time before it costs us if you ask me.
Sexton should absolutely be communicative, but he far exceeds that, to the point of petulance - if I as a lifelong Leinster fan am cringing watching his interactions with the ref I can only imagine how it's viewed by neutrals and other referees. It's just not a good look.

I’d disagree. You can make your point a bit like Best does at times or you can show your frustration at a decision that quite clearly is incorrect and that is the method Sexton choose.

Was Sexton incorrect at that time ? Has Sexton at any point with his interactions with the officials cost us ?

If you ask a player to reign themselves in then you are undermining them as a captain. I can think of several occasions where sexton being sexton has actually got us turnovers of decisions. Certainly twice last few seasons in the Aviva, one over the sideline (Kearney tackle) which was given as a try and a second where he held a player up (not sure if turned over)who had scored a try (NZ match 2016).

The Pheasant2

thebaz wrote: »

perhaps he's slightly pissed off about the way he has been targetted down the years -

Him being targetted by opponents historically is no excuse for taking an abrasive attitude towards the ref (particularly if he isn't being overtly targetted within that game).
He's a fantastic leader and you can tell all the players would be willing to follow him into battle, but communicating effectively with the ref is an important skill of the captaincy - If he can't control his emotions in that regard he shouldn't be captain.

The Pheasant2

Deleted User wrote: »

I’d disagree. You can make your point a bit like Best does at times or you can show your frustration at a decision that quite clearly is incorrect and that is the method Sexton choose.

Was Sexton incorrect at that time ? Has Sexton at any point with his interactions with the officials cost us ?

If you ask a player to reign themselves in then you are undermining them as a captain. I can think of several occasions where sexton being sexton has actually got us turnovers of decisions. Certainly twice last few seasons in the Aviva, one over the sideline (Kearney tackle) which was given as a try and a second where he held a player up (not sure if turned over)who had scored a try (NZ match 2016).

We have no idea if it has cost us, who knows how his behaviour towards refs has unconsciously coloured their attitude towards us. People seem to think I'm saying he shouldn't argue our case or highlight decisions that should have gone our way - I am not. I'm saying that the way in which he goes about this currently is unnecessarily abrasive and therefore unhelpful in getting refs onto our side.

thebaz

The Pheasant2 wrote: »

Him being targetted by opponents historically is no excuse for taking an abrasive attitude towards the ref (particularly if he isn't being overtly targetted within that game).
He's a fantastic leader and you can tell all the players would be willing to follow him into battle, but communicating effectively with the ref is an important skill of the captaincy - If he can't control his emotions in that regard he shouldn't be captain.

being a fantastic leader is good eneogh for me - besides, he is doing just fine

irishbucsfan

thebaz wrote: »

being a fantastic leader is good eneogh for me - besides, he is doing just fine

You don’t have to be captain to be a leader.

But I agree with you, refs don’t always see it as a negative thing anyway

Clegg

Need to rewatch the match to be sure of some performances but first impressions were that Ryan, Ringrose and Kearney were all excellent. Ryan was motm but the other two could easily have gotten the award.

Kearney covers the backfield exceptionally well and it's never spotted on tv. We had an excellent view for his duck under Cokanasiga. He 100% meant to do that. Turned what was a very hairy situation into a relatively easy 22 exit.

Ringrose is just so classy in everything he does. Carries with both hands which stopped Bath's defenders from committing to the tackle. They were petrified what he'd do. He created a few linebreaks through just doing the simple things.

antietam1

Thought Noel Reid provided a bit of spark/creativity would have preferred O'Loughlin.
We normally give up a lot of ground in the tackle but then isolate that player.
Yesterday we just gave up ground.
I do think Sexton could tone it down a bit.

stephen_n

Noel Reid apparently made 13 tackles and missed 4, VDF made 15 and missed 5. Does this mean VDF is a poor defender like Noel Reid is :eek:

Buer

Reid went well. His missed tackles tended to be sliding off a big carrier after they slipped out of his tackle and he had brought them near to stand still. His kick through to create our first try was very classy.

Clegg

IIRC VdF made a very important tackle yesterday. We'd kicked the ball into the Bath 22 and pushed up hard to pressure the defence. But there was a huge space out wide with a Bath receiver awaiting the pass. VdF scragged his man just before the pass went out. Stopped them making 60 metres.

Clegg

An interesting conundrum for next week is what we do with Fardy. We missed his grunt this weekend but he's gotten a rest. Do we start him in place of Toner or Ruddock?

prawnsambo

thebaz wrote: »

being a fantastic leader is good eneogh for me - besides, he is doing just fine

I heard an interesting comment on him from one of the Leinster players (second hand admittedly), that they love when he's picked because then they know they're going to win.