Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread X: [****]

prawnsambo

Neil3030 wrote: »

Gutted about that result. What use is a domestic/European double if you can't build on that going into a meaningless pre season friendly?

You can't know what the objectives were. It may well have been successful. You don't need to win pre-season friendlies.

prawnsambo

prawnsambo wrote: »

You can't know what the objectives were. It may well have been successful. You don't need to win pre-season friendlies.

Neil3030

Actually tbf to PS, upon re-reading my post I think I could have made the irony a tiny bit more transparent.

Something more along the lines of:

Gutted about that result. What use is a domestic/European double if you can't build on that going into a pivotal pre-season friendly against the mighty Newcastle? This was our one chance to show north East rugby what we're about, and the chance may not come along again for at least another year.

prawnsambo

Neil3030 wrote: »

Actually tbf to PS, upon re-reading my post I think I could have made the irony a tiny bit more transparent.

Something more along the lines of:

Gutted about that result. What use is a domestic/European double if you can't build on that going into a pivotal pre-season friendly against the mighty Newcastle? This was our one chance to show north East rugby what we're about, and the chance may not come along again for at least another year.

Faugheen

There's positives to take from pre-season, which is mainly what you're looking for. What works and what doesn't.

I've been highly impressed by Tom Daly, so I hope he can build on that going into the season

Burkie1203

Broken arm for Frawley ?

Burkie1203

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Broken arm for Frawley ?

Dunno. He really hurt it at the time and he was holding his arm but he played another 10. He wasn't straight off to hospital either and was there near full time but he did have ice wrapped around his forearm.

Sheep Shagger

Was a L in the old CCC jersey, had to go XL with Adidas.

irishbucsfan

Sheep Shagger wrote: »

Was a L in the old CCC jersey, had to go XL with Adidas.

It’s been a good year so!

Dubinusa

Not a good sign. I think we'll struggle this season.
Our 2nd row is weak after Fardy and the international players.
Counting on a lot on inexperienced back rows, who undoubtedly are talented, but very raw. Frawley is hurt already!! Make way for Noel Reid at oh.
I believe without the 1st team, we are below average.

Former Former

Dubinusa wrote: »

Not a good sign. I think we'll struggle this season.
Our 2nd row is weak after Fardy and the international players.
Counting on a lot on inexperienced back rows, who undoubtedly are talented, but very raw. Frawley is hurt already!! Make way for Noel Reid at oh.
I believe without the 1st team, we are below average.

We have, without any question, the best second string in the league. No doubt, whatsoever.

Dubinusa

We'll see if. I just don't see it.

DonVito

Dubinusa wrote: »

Frawley is hurt already!! Make way for Noel Reid at oh.

Ross Byrne /

Dubinusa

Dubinusa wrote: »

Not a good sign. I think we'll struggle this season.
Our 2nd row is weak after Fardy and the international players.
Counting on a lot on inexperienced back rows, who undoubtedly are talented, but very raw. Frawley is hurt already!! Make way for Noel Reid at oh.
I believe without the 1st team, we are below average.

Our pack were fairly poor yesterday, they couldn't build any kind of pressure and we made a lot of mistakes both forced and unforced. The biggest issue however was our positioning and tackling and to be honest our mid field shape was all over the place, especially when Frawley went off.

At the same time you can't say "our second row is weak after these 3 international quality players who'd walk into a lot of teams". These guys won't play loads of pro14 rugby but they'll play enough between them that we'll be fine.

We definitely have an issue with our reserve pack and we saw enough of this at the end of last season, but most of the time when we are purely relying on them we'll be playing against teams in the same situation.

Former Former wrote: »

We have, without any question, the best second string in the league. No doubt, whatsoever.

We do for sure, our backs went well enough yesterday also. Dave Kearney looks like he is close to where he was in 2015 and I expect he's going to be very much in the first choice 23 equation. I was very impressed with Tom Daly, he brought a good deal of composure to the game when he came on and he is after bulking up something awful. He'll have a good season if he stays fit, was probably our best player yesterday.

Tomane is at sea in our backline, no lack of talent or effort but like Lowe last season he has a lot to learn. He went well enough but there was little cohesion or shape to our defence and a lot of that started at 12.

Frawley was the worst possible early injury. Keep him on the pitch for 60 minutes and it's a different game. Frawley is also a big lad, looks very much in the same mold as Owen Farrell.

Dubinusa wrote: »

We'll see if. I just don't see it.

I don't know what there is to see at this stage. There is very little that you can point to as evidence that Leinster are going to struggle in the pro14. It could happen, but personally I can't see how you are doing anything other than guessing right now.

Would you like to elaborate in detail as to our likely pro14 stalwarts and why you think they will fail to deliver this season?

Shefwedfan

Dubinusa wrote: »

Not a good sign. I think we'll struggle this season.
Our 2nd row is weak after Fardy and the international players.
Counting on a lot on inexperienced back rows, who undoubtedly are talented, but very raw. Frawley is hurt already!! Make way for Noel Reid at oh.
I believe without the 1st team, we are below average.

Frawley was hardly going to be our starting...>Sexton for Europe and Byrne for P14


I could name out the Europe team and the Pro14 team and see who isn't strong but I couldn't be bothered.....


Any sign of a return to form from D Kearney

Dubinusa

Nagle is below standard. Mick K is average ? Molony seems to have regressed and was poor last year.
Josh Murphy, Will Connors whilst talented are very inexperienced. They will progress as time goes on.
If R Byrne gets injured, it's a nightmare scenario and who knows if Frawley is hurt.
The front row is fine. It's just the inexperienced br and the mediocre 2nd row.
I'm just a little anxious.

Clegg

Anxious why though? These are the League and European champions for a reason. Lads like Kearney, Nagle and 4th and 5th choice players. Connors and Murphy are even further down the pecking order for the backrow. They may be called upon a bit more this year because the players ahead of them are so good that they'll be with Ireland. But that's hardly a bad sign is it?

molloyjh

Let’s assume the below is our first string XV:

Healy Cronin Furlong
Fardy Ryan
Ruddock Conan SOB

McGrath Sexton
Henshaw Ringrose
Lowe Rob Larmour

Our second string would be:

McGrath Tracy Porter
Molony Toner
Leavy Deegan VDF

JGP Byrne
Tomane ROL
Daly Dave McFadden

In the back row, Ireland will likely call up POM, Stander, two of SOB, VDF and Leavy and Nordi Jordi. Hard to see room for both Ruddock and Conan in that. You’d think at least one of those 2 and one of SOB, VDF and Leavy would be available for Leinster, fitness allowing. So the side minus our internationals would be

Byrne Tracy Bent
Molony Fardy
Connors Conan Leavy/VDF/Doris

JGP Byrne
Tomane ROL
Daly Dave McFadden

If Molony can kick on this year (and he’s going to need to start soon) and Tomane can settle in a bit then that’s a more than good enough side to take on any weakened P14 side. Bear in mind we’ve Treviso and Kings away followed by Ospreys at home in the autumn. Then we’ve Scarlets at home, Zebre away, Kings & Cheetahs at home and Edinburgh away during the 6Ns window. We’ll be grand.

Richie_Rich89

I think Toner's a better second row than Fardy. Fardy's perfect for the bench, with his ability to play blindside and lock to a high level

Clegg

Our best player from last season would make a fine addition to our bench.

I like your thinking, Richie.

MattD

molloyjh wrote: »

Let’s assume the below is our first string XV:

Healy Cronin Furlong
Fardy Ryan
Ruddock Conan SOB

McGrath Sexton
Henshaw Ringrose
Lowe Rob Larmour

Our second string would be:

McGrath Tracy Porter
Molony Toner
Leavy Deegan VDF

JGP Byrne
Tomane ROL
Daly Dave McFadden

In the back row, Ireland will likely call up POM, Stander, two of SOB, VDF and Leavy and Nordi Jordi. Hard to see room for both Ruddock and Conan in that. You’d think at least one of those 2 and one of SOB, VDF and Leavy would be available for Leinster, fitness allowing. So the side minus our internationals would be

Byrne Tracy Bent
Molony Fardy
Connors Conan Leavy/VDF/Doris

JGP Byrne
Tomane ROL
Daly Dave McFadden

If Molony can kick on this year (and he’s going to need to start soon) and Tomane can settle in a bit then that’s a more than good enough side to take on any weakened P14 side. Bear in mind we’ve Treviso and Kings away followed by Ospreys at home in the autumn. Then we’ve Scarlets at home, Zebre away, Kings & Cheetahs at home and Edinburgh away during the 6Ns window. We’ll be grand.

And that second string is still missing decent players like Josh Murphy, Adam Byrne, Tom Daly and the Byrne twins. I think we could see a big season for all those players honestly. Would love to see Tom Daly kick on finally. A lot of faith has been put in him through his injuries, feel like he could destroy some unsuspecting teams

DonVito

Clegg wrote: »

Our best player from last season would make a fine addition to our bench.

I like your thinking, Richie.

I would bet he is going to predominantly be riding pine. He works much better as an impact substitution than Toner and also has the versatility of playing 6. Not to mention it's a world cup season, and I can see that playing into the minds of selectors.

Dog Botherer

My cousin met Dominic Ryan down at the Rose of Tralee, seemed in good spirits despite all his recent bad luck.

Dog Botherer

Dog Botherer wrote: »

My cousin met Dominic Ryan down at the Rose of Tralee, seemed in good spirits despite all his recent bad luck.

He has a lovely bottom.

sydthebeat

[Deleted User] wrote: »

He has a lovely bottom.

Careful there now Venjur, that might offend the boys......

connemara man

sydthebeat wrote: »

Careful there now Venjur, that might offend the boys......

They all have lovely bottoms

salmocab

DonVito wrote: »

I would bet he is going to predominantly be riding pine. He works much better as an impact substitution than Toner and also has the versatility of playing 6. Not to mention it's a world cup season, and I can see that playing into the minds of selectors.

Assuming everyone plays at last years level he will start all the big games, possibly a few at 6 but he will be a starter.

Dog Botherer

[Deleted User] wrote: »

He has a lovely bottom.

I saw this reply and was genuinely scared to scroll down in case there was a Photoshop masterpiece attached.

Richie_Rich89

Smith won't want an NIQ starting ahead of either of his first choice locks, unless Ryan or Toner need a rest, that is.

But, quite apart from that, Toner simply has far more pedigree as a second row than Fardy. Fardy's excellent, but, like, how many games have they both played at international level in the second row?

Fardy rather than Toner coming off the bench is probably a better dynamic as well in terms of impact

awec

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

Smith won't want an NIQ starting ahead of either of his first choice locks, unless Ryan or Toner need a rest, that is.

But, quite apart from that, Toner simply has far more pedigree as a second row than Fardy. Fardy's excellent, but, like, how many games have they both played at international level in the second row?

Fardy rather than Toner coming off the bench is probably a better dynamic as well in terms of impact

Fardy is probably Leinsters most important forward. If he’s fit he will start. Leinster really missed him when he wasn’t playing last season.