Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread X: [****]

Interested Observer

Reid leaving is the best thing for Leinster as well. He gets out of the way of guys like O'Brien and Frawley who will be better than him. Much better the game time goes to them.

jonok28

Interested Observer wrote: »

Reid leaving is the best thing for Leinster as well. He gets out of the way of guys like O'Brien and Frawley who will be better than him. Much better the game time goes to them.

I think at 28 Reid wants to be playing week in and week out and I completely understand him leaving. I have really high hopes for O'Brien and Frawley and to a lesser extent Tom Daly. I think Reid would have stayed in Ireland if any of the provinces needed a Centre but each province is fairly set at that position. I wish him the best if he does go.

blackdog1

Interested Observer wrote:

Reid leaving is the best thing for Leinster as well. He gets out of the way of guys like O'Brien and Frawley who will be better than him. Much better the game time goes to them.

I disagree. Reid is a fine player just doesn't have any dog in him. He covers centre, outhalf and full back too. Don't think he'd get in the way of any youngsters really. With Henshaw and ringrose playing for Ireland regularly they are likely to be unavailable more often and you need an experienced head in that backline. With Daly gone to Connacht we are very light in this area now with one or 2 injuries.

Shefwedfan

The issue with Reid is you keep him then he is blocking a spot for a younger player. That younger player could then move, probably to Munster, and Leinster lose out on a potential player that could push into the first team

At this stage of his career Reid will only ever be cover for when the international are away or we have an injury crisis. I would guess he wants more out of his career.

stephen_n

Shefwedfan wrote: »

The issue with Reid is you keep him then he is blocking a spot for a younger player. That younger player could then move, probably to Munster, and Leinster lose out on a potential player that could push into the first team

At this stage of his career Reid will only ever be cover for when the international are away or we have an injury crisis. I would guess he wants more out of his career.

If Reid is “blocking a spot” then the other players aren’t good enough, simple as that.

troyzer

stephen_n wrote: »

If Reid is “blocking a spot” then the other players aren’t good enough, simple as that.

Absolute bollocks.

Loads of players have only emerged because of injuries to players in front of them. Being good enough isn't good enough to get minutes. You need a bit of luck as well.

arsebiscuits1

Reid is in his 8th professional season at Leinster.

Who exactly has he "blocked" the path of in this time?

I don't buy into this "if he stays another player will have to go" There's plenty of games and plenty of chances for young players to prove their worth.

If he goes, fair play to him I hope he does well

troyzer

troyzer wrote: »

Absolute bollocks.

Loads of players have only emerged because of injuries to players in front of them. Being good enough isn't good enough to get minutes. You need a bit of luck as well.

If you are being blocked by a first choice player or nailed on 23 player then fair enough. If you are blocked by an inside centre who has spent most of the season playing outhalf for the A's it's a different kettle of fish.

Reid isn't blocking anyone at all.

Dubinusa

Tom Daly to Connacht is a strange one. Connacht have plenty of center cover. Daly has had a rough time with injury and hasn't really got much playing time with Leinster.
I see a similar pattern at Connacht. He's certainly behind Godwin, Farrell and obviously Aki.
He's going to be fighting for a spot with Ronaldson, Griffin and Robb. As it's a loan deal, I think it's like the Roux and Cooney loan deals. If he performs, he's going to be signed. But, he still won't be a featured center and will struggle to make the matchday squad.
Unless of course, someone at Connacht is leaving.
It's possible Robb or Griffin will not be retained.

Noel Reid is a good player. Whatever he decides, I hope he does well. I think at 28 years old he's run his course at Leinster. A team like the Tigers may be a good match for him.

Looking at Leinster right now, the squad is weaker the last years. Losing Nordi, Joey and Isa is huge. Plus, we didn't fill the voids with as good talent.
This is what makes a repeat of last season so much harder. It's very difficult to repeat and it gets compounded when 3 top class players have left.

AdamD

Reid had a great game against Bath, hes a handy squad player to have who covers multiple positions and has generally been fit when needed. I really don't see people's issue with him.

scott1974

Dubinusa wrote: »

Tom Daly to Connacht is a strange one. Connacht have plenty of center cover. Daly has had a rough time with injury and hasn't really got much playing time with Leinster.
I see a similar pattern at Connacht. He's certainly behind Godwin, Farrell and obviously Aki.
He's going to be fighting for a spot with Ronaldson, Griffin and Robb. As it's a loan deal, I think it's like the Roux and Cooney loan deals. If he performs, he's going to be signed. But, he still won't be a featured center and will struggle to make the matchday squad.
Unless of course, someone at Connacht is leaving.
It's possible Robb or Griffin will not be retained.

Noel Reid is a good player. Whatever he decides, I hope he does well. I think at 28 years old he's run his course at Leinster. A team like the Tigers may be a good match for him.

Looking at Leinster right now, the squad is weaker the last years. Losing Nordi, Joey and Isa is huge. Plus, we didn't fill the voids with as good talent.
This is what makes a repeat of last season so much harder. It's very difficult to repeat and it gets compounded when 3 top class players have left.

Plus the one signing we made gets a long term injury.

jonok28

Dubinusa wrote: »

Tom Daly to Connacht is a strange one. Connacht have plenty of center cover. Daly has had a rough time with injury and hasn't really got much playing time with Leinster.
I see a similar pattern at Connacht. He's certainly behind Godwin, Farrell and obviously Aki.
He's going to be fighting for a spot with Ronaldson, Griffin and Robb. As it's a loan deal, I think it's like the Roux and Cooney loan deals. If he performs, he's going to be signed. But, he still won't be a featured center and will struggle to make the matchday squad.
Unless of course, someone at Connacht is leaving.
It's possible Robb or Griffin will not be retained.

Noel Reid is a good player. Whatever he decides, I hope he does well. I think at 28 years old he's run his course at Leinster. A team like the Tigers may be a good match for him.

Looking at Leinster right now, the squad is weaker the last years. Losing Nordi, Joey and Isa is huge. Plus, we didn't fill the voids with as good talent.
This is what makes a repeat of last season so much harder. It's very difficult to repeat and it gets compounded when 3 top class players have left.

The IRFU seriously owe Leinster for shipping Nordi and Carbery to rivals, I understand that Irish Rugby will get better if the best players are playing week in and week out but strengthening your rivals with top level talent does not sit well with me. I think once Lowe and JGP become Irish eligible and Fardy finishes his contract that IRFU are going to ear mark some cash so Leinster can sign two top level internationals, my guess a hooker and a possibly a full back to replace Cronin and Kearney.

troyzer

jonok28 wrote: »

The IRFU seriously owe Leinster for shipping Nordi and Carbery to rivals, I understand that Irish Rugby will get better if the best players are playing week in and week out but strengthening your rivals with top level talent does not sit well with me. I think once Lowe and JGP become Irish eligible and Fardy finishes his contract that IRFU are going to ear mark some cash so Leinster can sign two top level internationals, my guess a hooker and a possibly a full back to replace Cronin and Kearney.

Nordi left after his contract expired. That had nothing to do with the IRFU. Carbery was on all Joe though.

Heymans

jonok28 wrote: »

The IRFU seriously owe Leinster for shipping Nordi and Carbery to rivals, I understand that Irish Rugby will get better if the best players are playing week in and week out but strengthening your rivals with top level talent does not sit well with me. I think once Lowe and JGP become Irish eligible and Fardy finishes his contract that IRFU are going to ear mark some cash so Leinster can sign two top level internationals, my guess a hooker and a possibly a full back to replace Cronin and Kearney.

Are we not more bare in the centre position particularly with Reid going? There are plenty of players coming through to cover fullback - Keenan, Kelly and Larmour 3 off the top of my head.

One thing i agree with you on is the need for a hooker although Byrne might start looking like a first choice alternative if he gets a bit more game time.

I''m not sold on Treacy ever being first choice hooker - too small and darts can go astray under pressure.

stephen_n

troyzer wrote: »

Absolute bollocks.

Loads of players have only emerged because of injuries to players in front of them. Being good enough isn't good enough to get minutes. You need a bit of luck as well.

If you’re good enough you will get picked, blocking suggests there are better options there who aren’t getting a chance, which is to use your term absolute bollox. Players don’t get picked just because they’ve been around longer. They get picked because the management view them as being a better option. The players that are good enough get picked, Ringrose, Larmour etc... the reality is COB may turn out to be a better 12 than Reid, he may not, but at the moment the management don’t see him as a better option.

troyzer

stephen_n wrote: »

If you’re good enough you will get picked, blocking suggests there are better options there who aren’t getting a chance, which is to use your term absolute bollox. Players don’t get picked just because they’ve been around longer. They get picked because the management view them as being a better option. The players that are good enough get picked, Ringrose, Larmour etc... the reality is COB may turn out to be a better 12 than Reid, he may not, but at the moment the management don’t see him as a better option.

I didn't mean to suggest that better players are being blocked. What I meant was that players with more potential are having their development stunted because a current player who is slightly better but with limited upside is in the way.

Waffletraktor

Are the Leinster backroom just making room for young guys to take a prominent role for 19/20, to see who comes through as next season the squad is likely to have players coming back a little bit broken from the wc. This would lead to the team maybe not being as competitive so might aswel invest in the next flush of players.

Peregrine

Dubinusa wrote: »

Tom Daly to Connacht is a strange one. Connacht have plenty of center cover.

They'll need cover for when Aki moves to Leinster


:pac:

troyzer

Peregrine wrote: »

They'll need cover for when Aki moves to Leinster


:pac:

Don't poke the bear.

Interested Observer

troyzer wrote: »

I didn't mean to suggest that better players are being blocked. What I meant was that players with more potential are having their development stunted because a current player who is slightly better but with limited upside is in the way.

You're of course correct but that doesn't fly here. Experience uber alles.

Peregrine

troyzer wrote: »

Don't poke the bear.

Fine, I'll save it for the interpro build up threads.

*scribbles notes*

troyzer

troyzer wrote: »

I didn't mean to suggest that better players are being blocked. What I meant was that players with more potential are having their development stunted because a current player who is slightly better but with limited upside is in the way.

Leinster are producing more pro-level talent than any other club (probably in the world) and contributing handsomely to arguably the best International team in the world so I reckon the coaches are on point with talent management and progression.

Larmour might have broken through slightly slower had Dave Kearney / Ferg been available all of last year - but he'd still have come through all the same, he was in Ireland camps years ago.

Supporters on here have to base our opinions on limited windows during matches each weekend. The coaches watch these guys for hours on end every week in training on top of seeing what the rest of us see in games.

Whilst I've no doubt 50/50 decisions might go to the experienced players for crunch games, I doubt there are many (any) situations where seriously talented youngsters are not getting a shot.

I'm surprised this is even being floated as a suggestion given the teams that recently beat Ospreys / Dragons.

arsebiscuits1

Heymans wrote: »

Are we not more bare in the centre position particularly with Reid going? There are plenty of players coming through to cover fullback - Keenan, Kelly and Larmour 3 off the top of my head.

One thing i agree with you on is the need for a hooker although Byrne might start looking like a first choice alternative if he gets a bit more game time.

I''m not sold on Treacy ever being first choice hooker - too small and darts can go astray under pressure.

Talking out your hole as per. Tracy as a converted prop is one of the biggest Hookers in Ireland

Brian Byrne - 1.78m - 103kgs
Sean Cronin - 1.8m - 100kgs
Rory Best - 1.8m - 106kgs
Rob Herring - 1.85m - 106kgs
Niall Scannell - 1.85m - 111kgs
James Tracy - 1.85m - 109kgs

arsebiscuits1

troyzer wrote: »

Nordi left after his contract expired. That had nothing to do with the IRFU. Carbery was on all Joe though.

No but the IRFU would be thankful he left to spread the talent. There was a contract tabled from Leinster

Dubinusa

Conor O Brian is 23 and hasn't overtaken Reid. I assume he's passed Daly, hence the loan to Connacht. He will probably get a development contract at the season's end.
I think he'll be a decent player, a good back up option at best.
Jack Kelly has been buried down the depth ladder. I have no clue as to how he is faring but, he hasn't featured for the senior team. He did not impress me during his stint at the u20's either. I think Leinster may pass on him, as he's in year 3 at the academy.
Hugo Keenan also is in his 3rd year and recently played for the senior team. He did quite well at fb. I think he definitely gets a contract.
J.O.B looks very promising too. Although, he's spent a lot of time with the 7's. I hope he gets a contract.
I think that's all of the 3rd year academy lads.
So, there's center coverage and wing/fb.
I'm hoping Fardy gets extended. Otherwise someone would have to be signed for the next couple of years. There's not going to be a lot out there during a rwc year.

arsebiscuits1

Dubinusa wrote: »

Conor O Brian is 23 and hasn't overtaken Reid. I assume he's passed Daly, hence the loan to Connacht. He will probably get a development contract at the season's end.
I think he'll be a decent player, a good back up option at best.
Jack Kelly has been buried down the depth ladder. I have no clue as to how he is faring but, he hasn't featured for the senior team. He did not impress me during his stint at the u20's either. I think Leinster may pass on him, as he's in year 3 at the academy.
Hugo Keenan also is in his 3rd year and recently played for the senior team. He did quite well at fb. I think he definitely gets a contract.
J.O.B looks very promising too. Although, he's spent a lot of time with the 7's. I hope he gets a contract.
I think that's all of the 3rd year academy lads.
So, there's center coverage and wing/fb.
I'm hoping Fardy gets extended. Otherwise someone would have to be signed for the next couple of years. There's not going to be a lot out there during a rwc year.

Jack Kelly made his senior debut in the last few weeks and did ok. He has captained the A team this season a few times too. Not sure whether he will get picked up mind you. But in a world cup year when our resources will be thin he may get a 1 year dev deal.

Keenan and JOB if I am not mistaken already have their dev deals sorted. COB likely has his sorted too.

Fardy would be brilliant to keep for one more season. His leadership while the world cup is on would be invaluable given how many players we can expect to miss next season. Not to mention his ability.

Having said that if he finishes this season strongly, I can see Australia coming knocking

Heymans

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

Talking out your hole as per. Tracy as a converted prop is one of the biggest Hookers in Ireland

Brian Byrne - 1.78m - 103kgs
Sean Cronin - 1.8m - 100kgs
Rory Best - 1.8m - 106kgs
Rob Herring - 1.85m - 106kgs
Niall Scannell - 1.85m - 111kgs
James Tracy - 1.85m - 109kgs

Perhaps he just gets shuntedd around more than other players. Comes across as quite small. I know people here think he's an animal in contact but I'm still yet to be sold on his ability to mix it with bigger opposition front rows.

jonok28

troyzer wrote: »

Nordi left after his contract expired. That had nothing to do with the IRFU. Carbery was on all Joe though.

Nordi tried to back out of the Ulster deal when he was playing out of his Skin for Leinster and Leinster wanted to keep him just as badly. The IRFU put the foot down and said that Leinster had sufficient cover with Conan, Deegan and Doris. Leinster didn't fight the final ruling but were fairly angry about it.

Carbery was definitely all Joe. Leo really didn't want to part with him but the IRFU weren't happy that he would be splitting his time with Sexton and Byrne and that Leinster used him at Full back as well as fly half.

Either there is a deal in place that Carbery is a two year loan for Munster and then he goes back to Leinster or the IRFU have ear marked a sizeable amount of money for Leinster ( Heaslip's contract off the books, Nordi off the books, Isa off the books and Carbery off the books) to strengthen their squad when the time comes.

Malcolm Marx and Izzy Folau please (Joking obviously)

AdamD

jonok28 wrote: »

Nordi tried to back out of the Ulster deal when he was playing out of his Skin for Leinster and Leinster wanted to keep him just as badly. The IRFU put the foot down and said that Leinster had sufficient cover with Conan, Deegan and Doris. Leinster didn't fight the final ruling but were fairly angry about it.

Carbery was definitely all Joe. Leo really didn't want to part with him but the IRFU weren't happy that he would be splitting his time with Sexton and Byrne and that Leinster used him at Full back as well as fly half.

Either there is a deal in place that Carbery is a two year loan for Munster and then he goes back to Leinster or the IRFU have ear marked a sizeable amount of money for Leinster ( Heaslip's contract off the books, Nordi off the books, Isa off the books and Carbery off the books) to strengthen their squad when the time comes.

Malcolm Marx and Izzy Folau please (Joking obviously)

I imagine new contracts for players like Ringrose, Ross Byrne, Larmour, Ryan, VDF, Leavy etc. who will be due pay increases will eat into that. Can't see Leinster spending big money soon.

jonok28

AdamD wrote: »

I imagine new contracts for players like Ringrose, Ross Byrne, Larmour, Ryan, VDF, Leavy etc. who will be due pay increases will eat into that. Can't see Leinster spending big money soon.

I was thinking that myself but I'm fairly sure the IRFU would have paid for them contracts regardless of whether Carbery or Nordi left. I still think they free up cash ( Ask Denis O'Brien) to land someone of note.

Huw Jones or Stuart Hogg would also be an acceptable option if Denis O'Brien is listening.