Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread X: [****]

sydthebeat

Dubinusa wrote: »

I think Luke is better kicking than JGP. They are both good at sniping and both run great lines.
I think Luke is a better tackler and is very good defensively.
JGP is not quite as good in this area imo.

I think that we are shy at 9 and we need someone else to step in.
I always believed that Nick McCarthy would fill the void, but I was wrong. He never progressed to the level required and didn't put pressure on the other 2.

JGP is the better passer, which is quite important for a 9

Squidgy Black

JGP has improved a good bit this season, or at least he's showing us what he's capable of. Two seasons ago he was a bit slow at the base and some of his kicking was really brutal.

Whether it's a case of now he's had time to fit into the system, or the fact he's been getting consistent game time behind a pack that isn't our 2nd/3rd choice and is dominating most teams is to be decided, but I'm quite pleased by how it's worked out.

Considering a lot of people were going mad for McCarthy to replace him (which was before the whole 2 into 3 issue started) and now it's pretty much accepted that we should have JGP on the bench without question for big games.

Interested Observer

I think JGP has improved out of sight over the past 12 months or so. He must be really pushing McGrath to start in Europe at the moment.

errlloyd

I'm very excited for Leinster scrum half health once we stop having the 2 from 3 problem.

stephen_n

Squidgy Black wrote: »

JGP has improved a good bit this season, or at least he's showing us what he's capable of. Two seasons ago he was a bit slow at the base and some of his kicking was really brutal.

Whether it's a case of now he's had time to fit into the system, or the fact he's been getting consistent game time behind a pack that isn't our 2nd/3rd choice and is dominating most teams is to be decided, but I'm quite pleased by how it's worked out.

Considering a lot of people were going mad for McCarthy to replace him (which was before the whole 2 into 3 issue started) and now it's pretty much accepted that we should have JGP on the bench without question for big games.

It probably helps that even our second string pack is pretty much capeable of creating front foot ball now. Our 9’s have been getting good ball this season no matter what 8 we play.

Serbian

Buer wrote: »

14 tries for Leinster so far which, for context, only Larmour and ROL have a better strike rate in terms of tries:minutes over the past 3 seasons.

Was interested in this stat, figured Barry Daly and James Lowe would have had a better strike rate than JGP (although Lowe obviously only in his second season).

Turns out Barry Daly has 17 tries over 1,496 minutes played in the past three seasons (1 try every 88 minutes). Lowe is also on 17 tries, but he has played 1,735 minutes since he arrived (1 try every 102 minutes). Gibson Park has 14 tries in 2,411 minutes (1 try every 172 minutes).

Turns out Barry Daly is quite the try scorer.

jonok28

stephen_n wrote: »

It probably helps that even our second string pack is pretty much capeable of creating front foot ball now. Our 9’s have been getting good ball this season no matter what 8 we play.

Leinster really don't get enough credit when it comes to keeping their players happy even when they aren't playing week in week out. Name another club that would have Jack McGrath, Andrew Porter, Scott Fardy, Ross Byrne, JGP, O'Brien, Ruddock etc.... coming off the bench or not even in the match day squad and still keeping them happy, motivated and playing top class rugby. It has to be one of the main keys to Leinster's success the last 5 years or so. They put a premium on developing their own players through the academy set up and only bring in foreign born players if they believe it will enhance the squad.

The fact they were able to lose Nacewa, Jordi Murphy, Carbery and only bring in Joe Tomane and they haven't really missed a step as they have brought through academy players to cover each player. What a time to be a Leinster fan.

errlloyd

Serbian wrote: »

Was interested in this stat, figured Barry Daly and James Lowe would have had a better strike rate than JGP (although Lowe obviously only in his second season).

Turns out Barry Daly has 17 tries over 1,496 minutes played in the past three seasons (1 try every 88 minutes). Lowe is also on 17 tries, but he has played 1,735 minutes since he arrived (1 try every 102 minutes). Gibson Park has 14 tries in 2,411 minutes (1 try every 172 minutes).

Turns out Barry Daly is quite the try scorer.

Dig to far into that stat and you get some weird ones. Fergus McFadden has an awful record, a try every 434 minutes. Jonny Sexton scores more. Max Deegan scoring at the same rate as Adam Byrne. Sean Cronin comfortably outscoring Dave Kearney, Garry Ringrose and Robbie Henshaw.

AdamD

I'd wager right wingers score less than left wingers, hookers are inflated by mauls (and Cronin being Cronin) and our 2nd string may well have better stats than our first string because they play easier teams.

Stout Warrior

Serbian wrote: »

Was interested in this stat, figured Barry Daly and James Lowe would have had a better strike rate than JGP (although Lowe obviously only in his second season).

Turns out Barry Daly has 17 tries over 1,496 minutes played in the past three seasons (1 try every 88 minutes). Lowe is also on 17 tries, but he has played 1,735 minutes since he arrived (1 try every 102 minutes). Gibson Park has 14 tries in 2,411 minutes (1 try every 172 minutes).

Turns out Barry Daly is quite the try scorer.

Yes but Lowe would have been selected to play against tougher opposition whereas Daly would be selected for the B Team games against weaker opposition. You can’t say Daly is a better player because his strike rate is higher. In this instance the stats lie

salmocab

Stout Warrior wrote: »

Yes but Lowe would have been selected to play against tougher opposition whereas Daly would be selected for the B Team games against weaker opposition. You can’t say Daly is a better player because his strike rate is higher. In this instance the stats lie

He didn’t say he was better and the stats don’t lie in this case, Daly has scored more tries that’s true. It doesn’t make Daly the better player but I doubt anyone thinks he is.

Dubinusa

I think 1 or 2 lads will move on this year. Obviously Daly and Nagle would be 2 and I think a couple more might join them.
Noel Reid may not go to the Tigers, but I believe he'll go.
Fardy too may be forced to leave and maybe one or 2 of the academy lads, who are buried down the food chain.
Jack Kelly could be one , or JOB and Keenan. There's a lot of lads ahead of them and breaking through would be difficult.
Dooley may look elsewhere as he's way down the pecking order.
Of course, who knows the contract status of these lads. Leinster don't really advertise contracts or the length of them.

stephen_n

Dooley signed a new contract at the end of last season, so that means he won’t be moving next year presumably.

Shefwedfan

Dubinusa wrote: »

I think 1 or 2 lads will move on this year. Obviously Daly and Nagle would be 2 and I think a couple more might join them.
Noel Reid may not go to the Tigers, but I believe he'll go.
Fardy too may be forced to leave and maybe one or 2 of the academy lads, who are buried down the food chain.
Jack Kelly could be one , or JOB and Keenan. There's a lot of lads ahead of them and breaking through would be difficult.
Dooley may look elsewhere as he's way down the pecking order.
Of course, who knows the contract status of these lads. Leinster don't really advertise contracts or the length of them.

Ask Munster, I am sure they will have a comprehensive list of Leinster players and when their contracts run out :P

Shefwedfan

Fardy needs to be kept, with the WC next year the injury count for Leinster will be high, very high. Losing a player of his experience would be a huge loss to the team.

elliot_st

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Fardy needs to be kept, with the WC next year the injury count for Leinster will be high, very high. Losing a player of his experience would be a huge loss to the team.

will IRFU allow it though?

encouraging that there are no rumours about his departure going around though.

elliot_st

Senior Leinster players potentially out of contract:

LH Prop
Cian Healy(31) - Signed central 3yr contract in 2016
Jack McGrath(29) - Signed central 3yr contract in 2016
Ed Byrne(25) - Signed contract in 2017

TH Prop
Andrew Porter(23) - Signed contract in 2017

Hooker
Bryan Byrne(25) - Signed contract in 2017

Lock
Scott Fardy(35) - Signed 2 yr contract in 2017
Mick Kearney(28) - Signed contract in 2017
James Ryan(23) - Signed contract in 2017

Backrow
Sean O'Brien(32) - Signed central 3 yr contract in 2016
Jack Conan(27) - Signed contract in 2017
Dan Leavy(25) - Signed contract in 2017
Max Deegan(22) - Signed contract in 2017

Scrumhalf
Jamie Gibson Park(27) - Signed 3 yr contract in 2016
Luke McGrath(26) - Signed contract in 2017

Outhalf
Ross Byrne(24) - Signed contract in 2017

Centre
Noel Reid(29) - Signed contract in 2017
Robbie Henshaw(26) - Signed 3yr contract in 2016
Rory O'Loughlin(25) - Signed contract in 2017

Back Three
Rob Kearney(33) - Signed central contract until 2019 WC.
Barry Daly(26) - Signed contract in 2017
Adam Byrne(25) - Signed contract in 2017

Note - ages as of end of season.
Note - all academy players out of contract also.
Note - haven't listed anyone who signed a contract last season, but quite possible a few players signed a 1 year deal.

salmocab

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Fardy needs to be kept, with the WC next year the injury count for Leinster will be high, very high. Losing a player of his experience would be a huge loss to the team.

Yeah 12 months for Fardy would make a lot of sense. An old hand for the first 3 months giving Toner and Ryan a bit of time to come back in after the WC.

Dubinusa

I think Mick Kearney will be kept on. He's doing better as far as I can see.
Leavy had better stay. I can see the IRFU attempting to move him or VDF.
Ryan should get a central contract. He could double his money over in France. I hope they don't lowball him.
I don't see the twins going anywhere?
RK will most likely be kept, but not on a central contract. His international career most likely will end when the new coaching team comes aboard.
Healy and McGrath won't leave. They'll get good contracts.
Frawley must get promoted. He's a really good prospect and is very capable at the pro 14 level.
Fortunately, there's no demand from the other provinces for centers. So ROL will stay.
Adam Byrne is a tough one. I think Larmour is better. He may move on.

prawnsambo

elliot_st wrote: »

Senior Leinster players potentially out of contract:

LH Prop
Cian Healy(31) - Signed central 3yr contract in 2016
Jack McGrath(29) - Signed central 3yr contract in 2016
Ed Byrne(25) - Signed contract in 2017

TH Prop
Andrew Porter(23) - Signed contract in 2017

Hooker
Bryan Byrne(25) - Signed contract in 2017

Lock
Scott Fardy(35) - Signed 2 yr contract in 2017
Mick Kearney(28) - Signed contract in 2017
James Ryan(23) - Signed contract in 2017

Backrow
Sean O'Brien(32) - Signed central 3 yr contract in 2016
Jack Conan(27) - Signed contract in 2017
Dan Leavy(25) - Signed contract in 2017
Max Deegan(22) - Signed contract in 2017

Scrumhalf
Jamie Gibson Park(27) - Signed 3 yr contract in 2016
Luke McGrath(26) - Signed contract in 2017

Outhalf
Ross Byrne(24) - Signed contract in 2017

Centre
Noel Reid(29) - Signed contract in 2017
Robbie Henshaw(26) - Signed 3yr contract in 2016
Rory O'Loughlin(25) - Signed contract in 2017

Back Three
Rob Kearney(33) - Signed central contract until 2019 WC.
Barry Daly(26) - Signed contract in 2017
Adam Byrne(25) - Signed contract in 2017

Note - ages as of end of season.
Note - all academy players out of contract also.
Note - haven't listed anyone who signed a contract last season, but quite possible a few players signed a 1 year deal.

I would think all those who signed in 2017 would have signed a two year contract at a minimum and that those would be expiring in 2020.

elliot_st

prawnsambo wrote: »

I would think all those who signed in 2017 would have signed a two year contract at a minimum and that those would be expiring in 2020.

No they'd be expiring at the end of this season, 2018/2019, if they signed a 2 year deal at end of 2016/2017 season.

bar the central deals that were signed and end after WC.

salmocab

You’d have to think Mc Grath and Kearney are coming off central contracts possibly SOB too with possibly Ryan getting one, post WC.

Shefwedfan

salmocab wrote: »

You’d have to think Mc Grath and Kearney are coming off central contracts possibly SOB too with possibly Ryan getting one, post WC.

McGrath and Kearney still could play for another few season

Kearney has a good few seasons off which can help prolong their career....McGrath is still a Lion and still young

They could still be left on central contracts

troyzer

Shefwedfan wrote: »

salmocab wrote: »

You’d have to think Mc Grath and Kearney are coming off central contracts possibly SOB too with possibly Ryan getting one, post WC.

McGrath and Kearney still could play for another few season

Kearney has a good few seasons off which can help prolong their career....McGrath is still a Lion and still young

They could still be left on central contracts

I can see Bobster making the move to the South of France. He's been hinting at a move.

scott1974

I'm just wondering what 're the odds on the capacity of the RDS being increased for the Toulouse game?
The did it for the Pro14 Semi last year but Munster have done it for their next CC game.

salmocab

Shefwedfan wrote: »

McGrath and Kearney still could play for another few season

Kearney has a good few seasons off which can help prolong their career....McGrath is still a Lion and still young

They could still be left on central contracts

Mc Grath has another LH ahead of him.
Kearney almost certainly won’t play another WC cycle.
They are tighter now with the central contracts so I’d think they both may lose out.

Squidgy Black

James Ryan will get a central contract. He's going to get a big payday.

Former Former

Must say it's news to me that Jack McGrath has a central contract. Is this correct?

Squidgy Black

Former Former wrote: »

Must say it's news to me that Jack McGrath has a central contract. Is this correct?

Yes. Below's the full list of central contracts

Sean O’Brien (Leinster – 2019)
Keith Earls (Munster – 2019)
Rob Kearney (Leinster – 2019)
Robbie Henshaw (Leinster – 2019)
Johnny Sexton (Leinster – 2019)
Cian Healy (Leinster – 2019)
Jack McGrath (Leinster – 2019)
Conor Murray (Munster – 2019)
Rory Best (Ulster – 2019)
Devin Toner (Leinster – 2020)
Iain Henderson (Ulster – 2021)
CJ Stander (Munster – 2021)
Peter O’Mahony (Munster – 2021)
Tadhg Furlong (Leinster – 2021)

Edit: this is from April so doesn't include extensions like Murray and Sexton.

Former Former

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Yes. Below's the full list of central contracts

Sean O’Brien (Leinster – 2019)
Keith Earls (Munster – 2019)
Rob Kearney (Leinster – 2019)
Robbie Henshaw (Leinster – 2019)
Johnny Sexton (Leinster – 2019)
Cian Healy (Leinster – 2019)
Jack McGrath (Leinster – 2019)
Conor Murray (Munster – 2019)
Rory Best (Ulster – 2019)
Devin Toner (Leinster – 2020)
Iain Henderson (Ulster – 2021)
CJ Stander (Munster – 2021)
Peter O’Mahony (Munster – 2021)
Tadhg Furlong (Leinster – 2021)

Edit: this is from April so doesn't include extensions like Murray and Sexton.

Where did you get that?