Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread X: [****]

awec

I'd say SOB is certain to revert to a Leinster contract.

awec

Former Former wrote: »

Where did you get that?

I guess someone has just been keeping track of that magic wording that appears in contract renewals of the central variety.

case885

Squidgy Black wrote:

Edit: this is from April so doesn't include extensions like Murray and Sexton.

Earls extended his too a few weeks ago.

Squidgy Black

awec wrote: »

I guess someone has just been keeping track of that magic wording that appears in contract renewals of the central variety.

Is that magic word ...



Google?

Former Former

awec wrote: »

I guess someone has just been keeping track of that magic wording that appears in contract renewals of the central variety.

Yeah exactly, there's a very specific way of announcing central deals.

But McGrath's last contract extension was announced by Leinster, not IRFU, meaning he is not on a central deal.

salmocab

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Yes. Below's the full list of central contracts

Sean O’Brien (Leinster – 2019)
Keith Earls (Munster – 2019)
Rob Kearney (Leinster – 2019)
Robbie Henshaw (Leinster – 2019)
Johnny Sexton (Leinster – 2019)
Cian Healy (Leinster – 2019)
Jack McGrath (Leinster – 2019)
Conor Murray (Munster – 2019)
Rory Best (Ulster – 2019)
Devin Toner (Leinster – 2020)
Iain Henderson (Ulster – 2021)
CJ Stander (Munster – 2021)
Peter O’Mahony (Munster – 2021)
Tadhg Furlong (Leinster – 2021)

Edit: this is from April so doesn't include extensions like Murray and Sexton.

14 and only one double up on position good news for Stockdale and Ringrose.

stephen_n

salmocab wrote: »

Mc Grath has another LH ahead of him.
Kearney almost certainly won’t play another WC cycle.
They are tighter now with the central contracts so I’d think they both may lose out.

McGrath and Healy were given central contracts the last time together. He was at that point behind Healy too, but overtook him for a while. If anything Healy might not get a central this time, but McGrath is 2 years younger and likely to feature in 2023.

Former Former

stephen_n wrote: »

McGrath and Healy were given central contracts the last time together.

I'm genuinely fascinated by this.

See, here's the Cian Healy announcement; http://www.irishrugby.ie/news/36950.php

There was never one for Jack McGrath, why do people think he's on a central deal?

arsebiscuits1

Former Former wrote: »

I'm genuinely fascinated by this.

See, here's the Cian Healy announcement; http://www.irishrugby.ie/news/36950.php

There was never one for Jack McGrath, why do people think he's on a central deal?

A few things that paint the picture.

McGraths current deal is for 3 years Leinster don't give out 3 year deals where as it is the standard length for an IRFU contract

Squidgy Black

Former Former wrote: »

I'm genuinely fascinated by this.

See, here's the Cian Healy announcement; http://www.irishrugby.ie/news/36950.php

There was never one for Jack McGrath, why do people think he's on a central deal?

It's a strange one, majority of news outlets have it listed as a central contract, but no statement from the IRFU regarding the signing (that I could find) at the time.

Former Former

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

A few things that paint the picture.

McGraths current deal is for 3 years Leinster don't give out 3 year deals where as it is the standard length for an IRFU contract

Firstly, Leinster don't announce contract lengths any more, but we do know that project players sign three-year deals (JGP and Lowe), if they can do it for random foreigners, they can do it for Jack McGrath.

Secondly, there's a standard way of announcing central deals. If anyone can find another player whose central deal was not announced publicly by the IRFU using the format "the IRFU and <province> are pleased to announce that <player> has signed a new contract with the IRFU", I'll concede the point.

Otherwise, no, he's on a provincial deal.

stephen_n

Former Former wrote: »

I'm genuinely fascinated by this.

See, here's the Cian Healy announcement; http://www.irishrugby.ie/news/36950.php

There was never one for Jack McGrath, why do people think he's on a central deal?

Funny as I was thinking back, I remember at the time conversations about lack of vision by the IRFU, giving Healy a central contract and not McGrath. When McGrath had become first choice. Maybe it’s group think in action :rolleyes:

arsebiscuits1

Former Former wrote: »

Firstly, Leinster don't announce contract lengths any more, but we do know that project players sign three-year deals (JGP and Lowe), if they can do it for random foreigners, they can do it for Jack McGrath.

Secondly, there's a standard way of announcing central deals. If anyone can find another player whose central deal was not announced publicly by the IRFU using the format "the IRFU and <province> are pleased to announce that <player> has signed a new contract with the IRFU", I'll concede the point.

Otherwise, no, he's on a provincial deal.

No, they don't

Fortunately I was blessed with the ability to count :pac: and all renewals are every 2 years.

And just because you're denying it, doesn't make it untrue.

He's on a central contract

sydthebeat

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

He's on a central contract

never confirmed by anyone.

arsebiscuits1

sydthebeat wrote: »

never confirmed by anyone.

That's fine.

But it doesn't make it any less true.

sydthebeat

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

That's fine.

But it doesn't make it any less true.

Do you have confirmation?

arsebiscuits1

sydthebeat wrote: »

Do you have confirmation?

Signed and stamped? No

sydthebeat

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

Signed and stamped? No

so then how do you know its true?

theres reports out there which claim both sides of this argument is true.

arsebiscuits1

sydthebeat wrote: »

so then how do you know its true?

theres reports out there which claim both sides of this argument is true.

Honestly, I'm not really going any further with this.

It wasn't in the media which means maybe it was kept under wraps. Which could be for a variety of reasons.

But at the end of it it relates to a mans personal affairs.

And yes I am aware this makes me appear as a spoofer. After all this is an anonymous forum where anyone can claim anything. However people questioning what I know on good authority isn't going to affect my ability to sleep tonight :pac:

sydthebeat

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

Honestly, I'm not really going any further with this.

It wasn't in the media which means maybe it was kept under wraps. Which could be for a variety of reasons.

But at the end of it it relates to a mans personal affairs.

And yes I am aware this makes me appear as a spoofer. After all this is an anonymous forum where anyone can claim anything. However people questioning what I know on good authority isn't going to affect my ability to sleep tonight :pac:

doesn't bother me either.... but i would like to know as it would set an interesting precedent (2 central contracts for the one position) and would appear to be going against the current trend

the last time there was central contracts for more than one position was the earls, trimble, bowe trio into 2 wing spots.

there are many ways you could know for absolute certainty, but could you confirm if you have first hand knowledge or second hand?

troyzer

sydthebeat wrote: »

doesn't bother me either.... but i would like to know as it would set an interesting precedent (2 central contracts for the one position) and would appear to be going against the current trend

the last time there was central contracts for more than one position was the earls, trimble, bowe trio into 2 wing spots.

there are many ways you could know for absolute certainty, but could you confirm if you have first hand knowledge or second hand?

If you were going to pick any position to have multiple central contracts at, it would be prop.

We're going to have at least two centres on central contracts in the future, maybe even Aki as well.

sydthebeat

troyzer wrote: »

If you were going to pick any position to have multiple central contracts at, it would be prop.

We're going to have at least two centres on central contracts in the future, maybe even Aki as well.

maybe, but the flip side of that is that typically props play the least amount of minutes per season and thus are less in need of welfare protection.

Im not saying its not proper to have first and second choice props on central contracts...
im just making the point that at the time of JmcG contract extension at the end of 2016 it was reported that as Healy was centrally contracted in his position, that JMcG was offered a leinster contract.

Im not claiming thats correct... im just challenging people who says its not true to say why.

troyzer

sydthebeat wrote: »

maybe, but the flip side of that is that typically props play the least amount of minutes per season and thus are less in need of welfare protection.

Im not saying its not proper to have first and second choice props on central contracts...
im just making the point that at the time of JmcG contract extension at the end of 2016 it was reported that as Healy was centrally contracted in his position, that JMcG was offered a leinster contract.

Im not claiming thats correct... im just challenging people who says its not true to say why.

The flip side of your flip side is that we have world class props who we can't afford to throw money at. But we can afford to throw an extra few years at the end of their career via player management. Do you think Healy would still be playing if he was in France? Probably not.

I was under the impression that McGrath was on a central contract as well, but I don't have a definite source.

Former Former

Ah here.

Every other central contract is made public by IRFU and they're always explicit about it. All of them.

There was no suggestion at the time (2016) that McGrath's deal was a central one. It was never announced by IRFU, only buried in a long list of Leinster renewals.

Now, nearly three years later, actually, it was a central deal all along??

Riiight.

sydthebeat

troyzer wrote: »

The flip side of your flip side is that we have world class props who we can't afford to throw money at. But we can afford to throw an extra few years at the end of their career via player management.

thats pretty much the opposite of why central contracts exist.

we DO throw money at them so that we have them at the height of their career / powers so that their heads arent turned to france.

also, the amount of players who retire on a central contract is very worrying, and would suggest renewal of older players isnt the best tactic.

Heaslip, Ross, Trimble, Bowe, Payne all retired on central contracts.

Donnacha Ryan is a good example of how the system should work..... contract centrally while at the height, and allow off to france for a payday at the end of their careers when their positions are challenged by younger capable players.

I expect to see a lot more of that type of situation arising in the future.

after the world cup i could expect to see the like of Kearney, SOB, Earls, and Toner reverted to provincial contracts or released should they wish.

Dubinusa

awec wrote: »

I'd say SOB is certain to revert to a Leinster contract.

No doubt. He's having a mate with the constant injuies.

Dubinusa

There's a slew of lads who could be centrally contracted. But what is it based on? I didn't know Payne was on a central contract. What's the criteria? Is it international caps?
Does the salary difference between a Conway and Earl's be very big? Does Carberry get paid more for going to Munster?
The system to me is strange. Surely anyone within the international squad and extended squad is deserving of a central contract? I know the idea is to keep the lads at home. So, I would assume that the likes of Stockdale. Ringrose etc are on central contract salaries? If not, I assume the salaries would be close enough to a central contract.

Squidgy Black

Dubinusa wrote: »

There's a slew of lads who could be centrally contracted. But what is it based on? I didn't know Payne was on a central contract. What's the criteria? Is it international caps?
Does the salary difference between a Conway and Earl's be very big? Does Carberry get paid more for going to Munster?
The system to me is strange. Surely anyone within the international squad and extended squad is deserving of a central contract? I know the idea is to keep the lads at home. So, I would assume that the likes of Stockdale. Ringrose etc are on central contract salaries? If not, I assume the salaries would be close enough to a central contract.

It's €€€. They're contracts where the figures would go above what a province could pay. There's no real criteria other than it being a player that the IRFU sees as crucial for the world cup cycle.

Younger players like Stockdale, Ringrose, Carbery etc wouldn't be on big bumper money yet. Their next renewal they'll make a jump up certainly.

troyzer

Squidgy Black wrote: »

It's €€€. They're contracts where the figures would go above what a province could pay. There's no real criteria other than it being a player that the IRFU sees as crucial for the world cup cycle.

Younger players like Stockdale, Ringrose, Carbery etc wouldn't be on big bumper money yet. Their next renewal they'll make a jump up certainly.

Aki is on central contract money but not a central contract. I think it's €400k a year?

case885

sydthebeat wrote:

Donnacha Ryan is a good example of how the system should work..... contract centrally while at the height, and allow off to france for a payday at the end of their careers when their positions are challenged by younger capable players.

Ryan was still in his pomp and starting for us when he was denied a central contract, if anything the Irfu are keeping those kind of players by giving Sexton and Earls new 2 year contracts and Healy, Kearney could well get extensions too if they stay.