Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread X: [****]

troyzer

Heymans wrote: »

troyzer wrote: »

You do realise that VDF played a blinder against the All Blacks only a month ago? Cloete left South Africa because he couldn't break into the Boks and while TOD is a solid player, he's the wrong side of 30 and he's been really unfortunate with injuries over the last while.

VDF is only so highly thought of because he is in winning teams. I don't think his physicality matches that of cloete and I would say cloete is better on the deck. TOD is getting past it but in his day he was top class

VDF isn't a physical player. He's a ridiculously intelligent one with an enormous engine.

I can't believe you're trying to argue that Cloete is a better player than the red menace.

Or maybe....

Ah, I see what you're doing.

Yeah, VDF is ****. Munster definitely have a great flanker in Cloete. They don't need VDF as a backup.

Faugheen

Heymans wrote: »

VDF is only so highly thought of because he is in winning teams. I don't think his physicality matches that of cloete and I would say cloete is better on the deck. TOD is getting past it but in his day he was top class

You don’t think VDF’s physicality matches Cloete?

If there’s anything VDF is better than anyone’s else, it’s being a physical freak of an athlete.

I honestly think you’re just throwing **** at the wall and hoping something sticks.

thomond2006

I don't think a player Leinster deem to be a regular starter would be encouraged/forced to go anywhere. In Carbery's case he was in danger of becoming a jack of all trades with Ross Byrne being the #2 flyhalf. Now that Sexton has extended his contract until 2021, Carbery's move was necessary for both him and Ross Byrne. Jordi Murphy looked surplus to requirements when he announced his move away to Ulster.

Heymans

Faugheen wrote: »

With the greatest of respects to Cloete and TOD, neither are within an asses roar of VDF. In fact, there isn’t a 7 in Ireland anywhere near his level at the moment, including Dan Leavy.

You're getting carried away with hype train. I wouldn't rate Dan Leavy either as a great 7 but to say Cloete isn't within an asses roar of VDF is believing the hype. One game with a massive tackle count!

troyzer

Heymans wrote: »

Faugheen wrote: »

With the greatest of respects to Cloete and TOD, neither are within an asses roar of VDF. In fact, there isn’t a 7 in Ireland anywhere near his level at the moment, including Dan Leavy.

You're getting carried away with hype train. I wouldn't rate Dan Leavy either as a great 7 but to say Cloete isn't within an asses roar of VDF is believing the hype. One game with a massive tackle count!

For **** sake.

durthacht

Heymans wrote: »

Think you're overstating VDFs level. He had one game with a high tackle count and people think he's the messiah. Cloete and TOD are a match for VDF

Is it Christmas or April Fools Day?

Heymans

Faugheen wrote: »

You don’t think VDF’s physicality matches Cloete?

If there’s anything VDF is better than anyone’s else, it’s being a physical freak of an athlete.

I honestly think you’re just throwing **** at the wall and hoping something sticks.

VDF is a slight 7. Not big physically and while yes his stamina is good he got fairly knocked around by the All Blacks. He's still a very good player but I think Cloete is still a worthy match for him. I reckon Cloete is well underrated

Heymans

durthacht wrote: »

Is it Christmas or April Fools Day?

Good argument pal

troyzer

durthacht wrote: »

Heymans wrote: »

Think you're overstating VDFs level. He had one game with a high tackle count and people think he's the messiah. Cloete and TOD are a match for VDF

Is it Christmas or April Fools Day?

When in doubt with Heymans, check the educational background of the players he's praising/criticising. There's a pattern.....

Faugheen

Heymans wrote: »

You're getting carried away with hype train. I wouldn't rate Dan Leavy either as a great 7 but to say Cloete isn't within an asses roar of VDF is believing the hype. One game with a massive tackle count!

Multiple games with high tackling counts, constant work rate, great carrying, and he has actually stolen balls on the ground (against New Zealand no less).

You keep pinning the ‘one game with a high tackle count’ all you want but you know as much as I do that you’re chatting so much bollocks that it’s bordering on trolling.

Leinster fan my arse.

Heymans

Faugheen wrote: »

Multiple games with high tackling counts, constant work rate, great carrying, and he has actually stolen balls on the ground (against New Zealand no less).

You keep pinning the ‘one game with a high tackle count’ all you want but you know as much as I do that you’re chatting so much bollocks that it’s bordering on trolling.

Leinster fan my arse.

You can be a Leinster fan and still be critical/impartial. Not trolling just looking to balance the view point a bit. He's very good tackler but could do more on the deck for me as an out and out 7.

troyzer

Heymans wrote: »

Faugheen wrote: »

Multiple games with high tackling counts, constant work rate, great carrying, and he has actually stolen balls on the ground (against New Zealand no less).

You keep pinning the ‘one game with a high tackle count’ all you want but you know as much as I do that you’re chatting so much bollocks that it’s bordering on trolling.

Leinster fan my arse.

You can be a Leinster fan and still be critical/impartial. Not trolling just looking to balance the view point a bit. He's very good tackler but could do more on the deck for me as an out and out 7.

If Munster proposed swapping TOD and Cloete for VDF and Leavy tomorrow, would you take it?

Heymans

troyzer wrote: »

If Munster proposed swapping TOD and Cloete for VDF and Leavy tomorrow, would you take it?

I'd think about taking Cloete certainly

Burkie1203

troyzer wrote: »

If Munster proposed swapping TOD and Cloete for VDF and Leavy tomorrow, would you take it?

No. Absolutely not.

Cloete has been fairly average this season

troyzer

Heymans wrote: »

troyzer wrote: »

If Munster proposed swapping TOD and Cloete for VDF and Leavy tomorrow, would you take it?

I'd think about taking Cloete certainly

Jesus.

Faugheen

Heymans wrote: »

You can be a Leinster fan and still be critical/impartial. Not trolling just looking to balance the view point a bit. He's very good tackler but could do more on the deck for me as an out and out 7.

Like stealing a ball against the best team in the world?

If you think Cloete is near VDF’s level then you either don’t watch VDF play or you’re trolling. No other opinion is acceptable when you look at both players and what they can do.

Heymans

Burkie1203 wrote: »

No. Absolutely not.

Cloete has been fairly average this season

Says the learned rugby man. Nonsense Cloete has had a couple of MOTM displays only in recent games and is equal if not better than VDF

Heymans

Faugheen wrote: »

Like stealing a ball against the best team in the world?

If you think Cloete is near VDF’s level then you either don’t watch VDF play or you’re trolling. No other opinion is acceptable when you look at both players and what they can do.

That's it write me off as a troll instead of arguing the merits of each players games. VDF got knocked around by the All Blacks. He got back up and kept putting in the hits but his slight frame played against him. No stats will tell you that

Burkie1203

Heymans wrote: »

That's it write me off as a troll instead of arguing the merits of each players games. VDF got knocked around by the All Blacks. He got back up and kept putting in the hits but his slight frame played against him. No stats will tell you that

VDF who made 29m from 8 carries and completed 16 tackles and missed 1. Not exactly much sign of him getting knocked around there tbh

Only the Lord almighty himself (James Ryan) made more tackles.

Heymans

Burkie1203 wrote: »

VDF who made 29m from 8 carries and completed 16 tackles and missed 1. Not exactly much sign of him getting knocked around there tbh

Only the Lord almighty himself (James Ryan) made more tackles.

That's it bring up the stats to support your argument. Stats only paint a 2 dimensional picture they don't tell the whole story. Quite the lawyer supporting your argument with stats. The only problem is it doesn't tell the whole story

troyzer

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Heymans wrote: »

That's it write me off as a troll instead of arguing the merits of each players games. VDF got knocked around by the All Blacks. He got back up and kept putting in the hits but his slight frame played against him. No stats will tell you that

VDF who made 29m from 8 carries and completed 16 tackles and missed 1. Not exactly much sign of him getting knocked around there tbh

Only the Lord almighty himself (James Ryan) made more tackles.

James Ryan isn't great. Not physical enough and doesn't carry well, always bounced back behind the gain line.

I'd rather have Gavin Thornbury.

Burkie1203

Heymans wrote: »

That's it bring up the stats to support your argument. Stats only paint a 2 dimensional picture they don't tell the whole story. Quite the lawyer supporting your argument with stats. The only problem is it doesn't tell the whole story

True but they tend to show that he wasnt exactly falling off tackles or getting driven backwards when carrying which goes totally against your previous argument of him getting knocked around

Faugheen

Heymans wrote: »

That's it write me off as a troll instead of arguing the merits of each players games. VDF got knocked around by the All Blacks. He got back up and kept putting in the hits but his slight frame played against him. No stats will tell you that

You said he needed to do more on the deck.

When I said he stole a ball against the best team in the world you then said he got knocked around against the All Blacks.

Stats might not tell me that, but what they do tell me is that he made 29m from 8 carries. That was more than any other forward in terms of meters gained and meters per carry.

Stats also tell me that VDF made 16 tackles and missed 1, second only to Ryan who was 20-1.

Compare the rest of the back-row, where MOTM POM was 8-3 and Stander was 9-4.

So how exactly was our top carrier and our second biggest tackler ‘knocked around by the All Blacks’ that the stats don’t tell me about?

Heymans

Burkie1203 wrote: »

True but they tend to show that he wasnt exactly falling off tackles or getting driven backwards when carrying which goes totally against your previous argument of him getting knocked around

Untrue. It was a physical game and he played well. Could a more physical 7 have done a better job. Yes. And beat in mind I don't think Leavy is that physical for a 7 either

troyzer

Heymans wrote: »

Burkie1203 wrote: »

True but they tend to show that he wasnt exactly falling off tackles or getting driven backwards when carrying which goes totally against your previous argument of him getting knocked around

Untrue. It was a physical game and he played well. Could a more physical 7 have done a better job. Yes. And beat in mind I don't think Leavy is that physical for a 7 either

Leavy is literally 100kg of muscle held together by cancerous hatred of the opposition.

Next you're going to be saying that Conor Murray can't box kick for ****

Heymans

Faugheen wrote: »

You said he needed to do more on the deck.

When I said he stole a ball against the best team in the world you then said he got knocked around against the All Blacks.

Stats might not tell me that, but what they do tell me is that he made 29m from 8 carries. That was more than any other forward in terms of meters gained and meters per carry.

Stats also tell me that VDF made 16 tackles and missed 1, second only to Ryan who was 20-1.

Compare the rest of the back-row, where MOTM POM was 8-3 and Stander was 9-4.

So how exactly was our top carrier and our second biggest tackler ‘knocked around by the All Blacks’ that the stats don’t tell me about?

All I know is what I saw. He's not that physical a player. He gets stuck in and yes makes yards on carries but he got battered around. He still got back up but I've seen many better 7's in my time

Burkie1203

Great reaction. What happened with Aki there does anyone know

https://twitter.com/leinsterrugby/status/1078266667883470850?s=19

Heymans

troyzer wrote: »

Leavy is literally 100kg of muscle held together by cancerous hatred of the opposition.

Next you're going to be saying that Conor Murray can't box kick for ****

More boll0x. Leavy goes around with a big grin on his face. Hardly a cancerous hatred of anyone.

Faugheen

Heymans wrote: »

All I know is what I saw. He's not that physical a player. He gets stuck in and yes makes yards on carries but he got battered around. He still got back up but I've seen many better 7's in my time

Ok then. You’ve made a point with no evidence to back up your point.

I’ll dispute your point by saying in his 8 carries he had no clean breaks and beat two defenders. He had to be physical in making his yards that day.

So are you going to give me any evidence to back up your bull**** or are you going to keep digging a hole for yourself?

Heymans

Faugheen wrote: »

Ok then. You’ve made a point with no evidence to back up your point.

I’ll dispute your point by saying in his 8 carries he had no clean breaks and beat two defenders. He had to be physical in making his yards that day.

So are you going to give me any evidence to back up your bull**** or are you going to keep digging a hole for yourself?

I studied law in college. Evidence law. Sometimes evidence is allowed other times it is not allowed be it that it is against the constitutional rights of the defendant or not. Say for example I was prosecuting you for defamation on this board and obtained you IP address illegal through hacking boards.ie website - that wouldn't allow me to prosecute you in a court of law because it is against the law to obtain certain evidence in some ways.

Evidence can be corroborated by other people verifying it but in truth I don't really care so much about that what I know as an ex player and coach is what I know about the game. People that bandy around bull**** one dimensional statistics about a three dimensional game are turds in my view. Now if you're done with your arguments I'll be off because I have to eat some mince pies. Happy Christmas to you all