Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread X: [****]

troyzer

Heymans wrote: »

Faugheen wrote: »

Ok then. You’ve made a point with no evidence to back up your point.

I’ll dispute your point by saying in his 8 carries he had no clean breaks and beat two defenders. He had to be physical in making his yards that day.

So are you going to give me any evidence to back up your bull**** or are you going to keep digging a hole for yourself?

I studied law in college. Evidence law. Sometimes evidence is allowed other times it is not allowed be it that it is against the constitutional rights of the defendant or not. Say for example I was prosecuting you for defamation on this board and obtained you IP address illegal through hacking boards.ie website - that wouldn't allow me to prosecute you in a court of law because it is against the law to obtain certain evidence in some ways.

Evidence can be corroborated by other people verifying it but in truth I don't really care so much about that what I know as an ex player and coach is what I know about the game. People that bandy around bull**** one dimensional statistics about a three dimensional game are turds in my view. Now if you're done with your arguments I'll be off because I have to eat some mince pies. Happy Christmas to you all

Lol.

Faugheen

Heymans wrote: »

I studied law in college. Evidence law. Sometimes evidence is allowed other times it is not allowed be it that it is against the constitutional rights of the defendant or not. Say for example I was prosecuting you for defamation on this board and obtained you IP address illegal through hacking boards.ie website - that wouldn't allow me to prosecute you in a court of law because it is against the law to obtain certain evidence in some ways.

Evidence can be corroborated by other people verifying it but in truth I don't really care so much about that what I know as an ex player and coach is what I know about the game. People that bandy around bull**** one dimensional statistics about a three dimensional game are turds in my view. Now if you're done with your arguments I'll be off because I have to eat some mince pies. Happy Christmas to you all

...so no evidence to back up your claims then? No video clips? No gifs showing VDF getting consistently knocked about by the All Blacks? No clips showing his tackles being imaginary and not physical? What about a text from Joe Schmidt which shows that he made easy yards before easily being knocked back on his arse?

Nothing at all? Good man.

Squidgy Black

Defamation of what, your anonymous internet handle?

Clegg

Cloete is a very good player when you've a superior tight 5. He's an excellent poacher of the ball. If the opposition are working off messy ball he'll disrupt again and again.

But the points raised to dismiss VdF, notably "getting knocked around" are much more applicable to Cloete. He's actually a rather lightweight forward. When Munster don't have the advantage up front he struggles. He's not a physical carrier at all. That's actually one of the areas VdF excels at. He has the habit of making yards in tight where he really shouldn't.

elliot_st

vdf can get over powered at the highest level at the breakdown.. but that happens to every 7 really.

Heymans

Truth be told I don't believe the standard of forward backrows is off the top shelf in the last 5 years compared to the last 30 years. NZ are the worst they've been in the past 30 years Australia and South Africa are the worst they've been in the last 30 years and France and England are close to being the worst in the last 30. Ireland are dominating a pretty substandard pool of teams judging on them over the past 30. I say that not to take anything away from us only to heighten the critical view point from which to judge Ireland players against. Having said that VDF is close to first choice in one of the if not the best club in the world. It's just that the competition isn't that good ATM!

Faugheen

Heymans wrote: »

Truth be told I don't believe the standard of forward backrows is off the top shelf in the last 5 years compared to the last 30 years. NZ are the worst they've been in the past 30 years Australia and South Africa are the worst they've been in the last 30 years and France and England are close to being the worst in the last 30. Ireland are dominating a pretty substandard pool of teams judging on them over the past 30. I say that not to take anything away from us only to heighten the critical view point from which to judge Ireland players against. Having said that VDF is close to first choice in one of the if not the best club in the world. It's just that the competition isn't that good ATM!

You could just put your hands up and admit you were wrong, you know.

Other people might be of the idea of ignoring you, but when you make nonsense claims about one of our best performers against the All Blacks with absolutely no evidence to back up your bull****, then expect to be called out on it.

Prove to me that he was knocked about against the All Blacks. I’ve backed up everything I’ve said about his performance in that game while you have done nothing.

To go back to the original argument, Cloete isn’t anywhere near VDFs level. End of.

Dubinusa

Jeez, I just watched the Castres 7 sodomize Cloete a couple of weeks ago. Could have sworn Jordi shut him down in Ravenshill last week.
That would be the same Jordi who was surplus to Leinster.
Jordi is a good 7. A lot better than Cloete. VDF and Leavy are better 7's than Jordi.

Heymans

Dubinusa wrote: »

Jeez, I just watched the Castres 7 sodomize Cloete a couple of weeks ago. Could have sworn Jordi shut him down in Ravenshill last week.
That would be the same Jordi who was surplus to Leinster.
Jordi is a good 7. A lot better than Cloete. VDF and Leavy are better 7's than Jordi.

He was my MOTM in Castres home leg. Don't think he did too badly away from home but he certainly owned the Castres 7 in Thomond.

Serbian

Heymans wrote: »

Truth be told I don't believe the standard of forward backrows is off the top shelf in the last 5 years compared to the last 30 years. NZ are the worst they've been in the past 30 years Australia and South Africa are the worst they've been in the last 30 years and France and England are close to being the worst in the last 30. Ireland are dominating a pretty substandard pool of teams judging on them over the past 30. I say that not to take anything away from us only to heighten the critical view point from which to judge Ireland players against. Having said that VDF is close to first choice in one of the if not the best club in the world. It's just that the competition isn't that good ATM!

Except a past standard is irrelevant when you’re comparing contemporary players. It’s not like we’re comparing Pele to Messi here. Cloete, Leavy, van der Flier, Jordi Murphy etc etc all play the game today. The bar is the same for all of them.

You’ve fully submerged yourself deep into vat of your own bullshît, you’re nowhere near the critical viewpoint.

Heymans

Touché

Rigor Mortis

Buer wrote: »

If only some put as much energy and concentration into supporting Leinster as they do into attempting to criticise Munster.

It's a nice soundbite you put out there, but even the most vocal in this debate talk more about Leinster than they do about Munster. It is possible to support a team and have opinions on other issues in the league.

Its possible to have a diversity of opinions. I thought Carberry's move was right, but i still dont agree with the scrum half situation and i dont think this should be sanctioned.

sydthebeat

LEINSTER thread lads....



fcuking LEINSTER thread !!!!!!

Heymans

Serbian wrote: »

Except a past standard is irrelevant when you’re comparing contemporary players. It’s not like we’re comparing Pele to Messi here. Cloete, Leavy, van der Flier, Jordi Murphy etc etc all play the game today. The bar is the same for all of them.

You’ve fully submerged yourself deep into vat of your own bullshît, you’re nowhere near the critical viewpoint.

Except that judging his performance against the All Blacks is relevant if they are at their worst over the past 30. I take nothing away from him he's a very good player. It's just that I think there are better than him and question if he could do what he does with a team getting beaten backwards like some of the great 7's I've seen in my time Jenno being one.

Interested Observer

Heymans wrote: »

Except that judging his performance against the All Blacks is relevant if they are at their worst over the past 30. I take nothing away from him he's a very good player. It's just that I think there are better than him and question if he could do what he does with a team getting beaten backwards like some of the great 7's I've seen in my time Jenno being one.

It's very convenient to apply some arbitrary and non verifiable standard to a player when you want to try make an argument.

Jennings was a fine fine player for Leinster but he has no international record at all. Keep comparing apples to oranges.

Heymans

Keith Gleason another. He played for Ireland and won nothing with them. But was a very great player

molloyjh

Any chance we can allow our threads not to get derailed with pages and pages of BS please? Some of us would like to have reasonable and rational discussions. Preferably about Leinster generally. If someone is posting nonsense you can always choose to not reply. And you can def choose not to quote.

Thermoman12

Heymans wrote: »

VDF is only so highly thought of because he is in winning teams. I don't think his physicality matches that of cloete and I would say cloete is better on the deck. TOD is getting past it but in his day he was top class

Size isn’t everything, just because Cloete is bigger and stronger, doesn’t make him a better player, VDF has an incredible work rate and good tackle count, that’s the most important thing you want from a 7 is work rate! VDF discipline is also very good, he’s the best 7 in Ireland atm by far

Shefwedfan

VDF destroyer NZ twice. Funny how we don’t hear about how bad they are when they hammer every team that comes near them....when they arrived in Dublin I didn’t hear one comment about how bad they are....

Leavy and VDF are still very young but already top class. They have potential to be as good as McCaw but it will take a few years and experience

When McCaw first started I don’t remember him getting the plaudits that Leavy or VDF are getting, he was just evolved into a World Class player

Interested Observer

Heymans wrote: »

Keith Gleason another. He played for Ireland and won nothing with them. But was a very great player

In trying to argue VdF is underpowered to give us Keith Gleeson. What.

aloooof

Shefwedfan wrote: »

When McCaw first started I don’t remember him getting the plaudits that Leavy or VDF are getting, he was just evolved into a World Class player

This is just not true. McCaw was named NZ captain when he was VDF's age.

elliot_st

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Leavy and VDF are still very young but already top class. They have potential to be as good as McCaw but it will take a few years and experience

eh.. calm down

Yeah_Right

aloooof wrote: »

This is just not true. McCaw was named NZ captain when he was VDF's age.

MOTM on his test debut (in Dublin). Before he'd even played Super Rugby.

I think VDF is a good player but I do think he is overrated by some Irish and Leinster fans. I'd take Leavy over him. However a certain poster here is so irritating that I am nearly compelled to argue that VDF is a hybrid of Jones, McCaw, Kronfeld, Smith and Pocock. And is already better than all of them.

Thermoman12

Shefwedfan wrote: »

VDF destroyer NZ twice. Funny how we don’t hear about how bad they are when they hammer every team that comes near them....when they arrived in Dublin I didn’t hear one comment about how bad they are....

Leavy and VDF are still very young but already top class. They have potential to be as good as McCaw but it will take a few years and experience

When McCaw first started I don’t remember him getting the plaudits that Leavy or VDF are getting, he was just evolved into a World Class player

Don’t think VDF has the leadership skills to be like McCaw

Squidgy Black

I'm a big fan of VdF and think he has the potential to be one of Ireland's best 7s, but the McCaw comments are hilarious and completely over the top.

He's nowhere close to that level, he wouldn't even make a Lion's squad at the moment never mind being compared to one of the all time greats.

Thermoman12

Squidgy Black wrote: »

I'm a big fan of VdF and think he has the potential to be one of Ireland's best 7s, but the McCaw comments are hilarious and completely over the top.

He's nowhere close to that level, he wouldn't even make a Lion's squad at the moment never mind being compared to one of the all time greats.

True

Former Former

Have people completely lost the ability to filter what they read?

This place is an absolute sh1tshow not because of the stupid comments but because of people taking up arms against them.

You're the problem, not them.

Clegg

McCaw never beat the All Blacks in Dublin.

Former Former

Clegg wrote: »

McCaw never beat the All Blacks in Dublin.

Or in Chicago. VDF has done both.

QED

Thermoman12

Clegg wrote: »

McCaw never beat the All Blacks in Dublin.

McCaw is still a better player and leader imo