Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread X: [****]

troyzer

thegreycity wrote: »

troyzer wrote: »

100% agree. I still don't know why this is some moral outrage that he pointed out his four cups.

I didn’t say it’s a moral outrage but there’s some middle ground between that and it making him a “legend”.

I thought it was appropriate given the amount of **** thrown at him.

Anyway, we'll have to agree to disagree.

thegreycity

awec wrote: »

It worked. It shouldn’t have worked, given Sextons experience, but the Thomond crowd played him like a cheap fiddle and he offered no leadership whatsoever.

...

Munster fans got under his skin today. More fool him.

I wouldn’t give the crowd quite as much credit, seems Sexton was ready to go from the start and never wised up regardless of the ref or the crowd or anything else.

The Lost Sheep

troyzer wrote: »

I thought it was appropriate given the amount of **** thrown at him.

Anyway, we'll have to agree to disagree.

Its still completely inappropriate and idiotic of the guy regardless of what was maybe said to him. He's a pro long enough and should know far bloody better than that

degsie

Wheels come off a bit today, but I still believe....

Burkie1203

degsie wrote: »

Wheels come off a bit today, but I still believe....

It's Ulster Who will bear the brunt

troyzer

Burkie1203 wrote: »

degsie wrote: »

Wheels come off a bit today, but I still believe....

It's Ulster Who will bear the brunt

I doubt it. Will they go full strength? I would have thought a pick and mix is in order.

LostArt

Clegg wrote: »

There have been some worryingly off colour performances recently. Bath away and this evening's game have come in the space of 3 weeks. I don't know what's the problem exactly. It can't just be that they're both away games. We played much better in those kind of fixtures last season.

I'm starting to think it's the leadership, Toulouse, Bath and today needed a calming influence but Sexton was losing his ****

troyzer

LostArt wrote: »

Clegg wrote: »

There have been some worryingly off colour performances recently. Bath away and this evening's game have come in the space of 3 weeks. I don't know what's the problem exactly. It can't just be that they're both away games. We played much better in those kind of fixtures last season.

I'm starting to think it's the leadership, Toulouse, Bath and today needed a calming influence but Sexton was losing his ****

In Toulouse especially it was apparent. He was having a go at everyone for their mistakes whilst making a few himself.

SOB told him to get firmly back into his box at one point.

I agree with what the others have said here, the same skills that make him an all time great fly half also make him a poor leader.

Faugheen

I said at the time he was appointed that Sexton led by example, which is very clear that he does just that in need this team over the years.

However, leading by example doesn’t necessarily equate to being a good captain. Ruddock should have got it at the time and should be captain for any side he plays with.

I though VDF, Ryan and Ruddock played well in fairness. Larmour too.

errlloyd

awec wrote: »

troyzer wrote: »

Probably shouldn't be hurling abuse at him in that case.

Ah wise up.

Sexton got abuse after his early tantrum when it was obvious he was on the verge of losing the plot entirely.

It worked. It shouldn’t have worked, given Sextons experience,

It didn't work did it? Sexton didn't play badly. He didn't manage the ref brilliantly, but no worse or better than he often does.

Squidgy Black

Faugheen wrote: »

I said at the time he was appointed that Sexton led by example, which is very clear that he does just that in need this team over the years.

However, leading by example doesn’t necessarily equate to being a good captain. Ruddock should have got it at the time and should be captain for any side he plays with.

I though VDF, Ryan and Ruddock played well in fairness. Larmour too.

Hard to give the captaincy at the start of the season to someone who didn't necessarily have a starting spot nailed down.

joseywhales

Distracted by the pantomime, did they all take bath salts in the dressing room?! they were way over cooked emotionally.

I've noticed Lowe seems to follow sextons intensity in a lot of games, I don't know why they started losing control and making risky decisions like competing for a high ball that you are late to without jumping?!?! Or following up with opponents after a high tackle? My only complaint about the ref was he should have been harder on Leinster at the beginning and not been intimidated by sexton. 10m for backchat all day, yellow for lashing out at a legitimate tackle. He gave sexton the rope to hang himself.

That game could/should have been an easy win.

On a positive note I felt good for carbery today, not a brilliant performance but solid enough and got a win and solid from the tee, it was the right response to pressure. I know he is no longer a Leinster player but I still want to see him succeed.

Burkie1203

Ulster, Scarlets and Kings at home
Zebre away

Win all 4 and confefence is won

Buer

joseywhales wrote: »

Distracted by the pantomime, did they all take bath salts in the dressing room?! they were way over cooked emotionally.

I've noticed Lowe seems to follow sextons intensity in a lot of games, I don't know why they started losing control and making risky decisions like competing for a high ball that you are late to without jumping?!?! Or following up with opponents after a high tackle? My only complaint about the ref was he should have been harder on Leinster at the beginning and not been intimidated by sexton. 10m for backchat all day, yellow for lashing out at a legitimate tackle. He gave sexton the rope to hang himself.

That game could/should have been an easy win.

On a positive note I felt good for carbery today, not a brilliant performance but solid enough and got a win and solid from the tee, it was the right response to pressure. I know he is no longer a Leinster player but I still want to see him succeed.

I'd strongly disagree on Carbery. He looks like he doesn't know what he's supposed to do. Missed touch, charged down in his own 22, threw a couple of poor passes leading to knock ons and was dragged down well behind the gain line a couple of times whilst not looking like he knew what he wanted to do.

Leinster were down a winger. He should have been tormenting a very inexperienced back field of Larmour and ROL but barely tested them. They got away with murder.

Buer

On the whole leadership thing, it's not just a matter of Sexton not being captain material. Leinster have lost a serious amount of experience and leadership behind the scenes. In Strauss and Nacewa, they had two consummate professionals who drove standards in the wider group as well as Heaslip who was still around the camp for part of last season. Jordi Murphy was another experienced player who had captained his country at underage and was a seasoned, high quality professional.

That's 4 guys who had captained Leinster gone in one season along with a coach who was steeped in Leinster in Dempsey.

Those guys cannot be replaced in one year. It takes years to get that level of experience and authority as a player. Leinster signed only one player in Tomane and he does not strike me as a huge leader type (certainly not yet anyway).

This season was always going to be tougher than last. We've a target on our backs, a notably weaker squad and a serious international schedule to balance.

I would read very little into last night though. We were the better team for long periods and it was our discipline which was our downfall which is very fixable. I thought we were quite good in the second half. If it wasn't for the intercept, I think we would have had a LBP and, even as it was, we won the second half with 14 men. Not all doom and gloom.

troyzer

Buer wrote: »

On the whole leadership thing, it's not just a matter of Sexton not being captain material. Leinster have lost a serious amount of experience and leadership behind the scenes. In Strauss and Nacewa, they had two consummate professionals who drove standards in the wider group as well as Heaslip who was still around the camp for part of last season. Jordi Murphy was another experienced player who had captained his country at underage and was a seasoned, high quality professional.

That's 4 guys who had captained Leinster gone in one season along with a coach who was steeped in Leinster in Dempsey.

Those guys cannot be replaced in one year. It takes years to get that level of experience and authority as a player. Leinster signed only one player in Tomane and he does not strike me as a huge leader type (certainly not yet anyway).

This season was always going to be tougher than last. We've a target on our backs, a notably weaker squad and a serious international schedule to balance.

I would read very little into last night though. We were the better team for long periods and it was our discipline which was our downfall which is very fixable. I thought we were quite good in the second half. If it wasn't for the intercept, I think we would have had a LBP and, even as it was, we won the second half with 14 men. Not all doom and gloom.

Agree with most of this. I'm starting to get a little worried though. As you say, there's been no calming influence and now we might be down Furlong and Lowe in a crucial Toulouse game.

joseywhales

Buer wrote: »

I'd strongly disagree on Carbery. He looks like he doesn't know what he's supposed to do. Missed touch, charged down in his own 22, threw a couple of poor passes leading to knock ons and was dragged down well behind the gain line a couple of times whilst not looking like he knew what he wanted to do.

Leinster were down a winger. He should have been tormenting a very inexperienced back field of Larmour and ROL but barely tested them. They got away with murder.

Yeah he wasn't brilliant but he got through it, a lot of the time Munster we're going backwards, due to leinster's defense around the fringes, so he didn't have front foot to play off and ended up playing short passes and kicking. He missed touch off a penalty and sexton did the same 2 minutes later on the same side, I wonder was there a strange breeze on that side.

PhlegmyMoses

Still annoyed at our discipline last night. Infuriating and out of nowhere really, they are normally good at keeping a cool head.

Hopefully it is lesson learned. Love James Lowe, but he is a model for doing something like that when Leinster are catching a lot of heat from the ref. Sexton as captain doesn't help either.

Squidgy Black

Feckin backs are always drama queens. There, I said it.

stephen_n

Buer wrote: »

I'd strongly disagree on Carbery. He looks like he doesn't know what he's supposed to do. Missed touch, charged down in his own 22, threw a couple of poor passes leading to knock ons and was dragged down well behind the gain line a couple of times whilst not looking like he knew what he wanted to do.

Leinster were down a winger. He should have been tormenting a very inexperienced back field of Larmour and ROL but barely tested them. They got away with murder.

On this, Murray shouldn’t get away scot free either. As an experienced head he surely should have been taking some of the responsibility. With his kicking game he should have been able to find gaps and force Leinster back into their own half.

stephen_n

Buer wrote: »

On the whole leadership thing, it's not just a matter of Sexton not being captain material. Leinster have lost a serious amount of experience and leadership behind the scenes. In Strauss and Nacewa, they had two consummate professionals who drove standards in the wider group as well as Heaslip who was still around the camp for part of last season. Jordi Murphy was another experienced player who had captained his country at underage and was a seasoned, high quality professional.

That's 4 guys who had captained Leinster gone in one season along with a coach who was steeped in Leinster in Dempsey.

Those guys cannot be replaced in one year. It takes years to get that level of experience and authority as a player. Leinster signed only one player in Tomane and he does not strike me as a huge leader type (certainly not yet anyway).

This season was always going to be tougher than last. We've a target on our backs, a notably weaker squad and a serious international schedule to balance.

I would read very little into last night though. We were the better team for long periods and it was our discipline which was our downfall which is very fixable. I thought we were quite good in the second half. If it wasn't for the intercept, I think we would have had a LBP and, even as it was, we won the second half with 14 men. Not all doom and gloom.

Funny you should mention Dempsey, but last night had doctor Phil stamped all over it in nature. You’d have to wonder if some of it stemmed from there.

thebaz

surely a neutral refereeing a munster/leinster game would have eased the situation - very strange - sure, not all referees fault/ same not all Johnnys leadership fault - I like Johnnys leadership , grew up witnessing Munster bullying Leinster , so sometimes we needed a little bit of needle, and that has helped make us the competive team of today.

stephen_n

thebaz wrote: »

surely a neutral refereeing a munster/leinster game would have eased the situation - very strange - sure, not all referees fault/ same not all Johnnys leadership fault - I like Johnnys leadership , grew up witnessing Munster bullying Leinster , so sometimes we needed a little bit of needle, and that has helped make us the competive team of today.

which part was the referees fault? Not binning Johnny for the BS with Whycherley? It wasn’t all any players fault, Leinster were collectively poor and indisciplined. The referee for his part did a very good job in difficult circumstances.

thebaz

stephen_n wrote: »

which part was the referees fault? Not binning Johnny for the BS with Whycherley? It wasn’t all any players fault, Leinster were collectively poor and indisciplined. The referee for his part did a very good job in difficult circumstances.

overall I dont think he managed the game well ; but I have a bigger issue with those that decided to put a munsterman in charge of a munster/leinster derby

bennyl10

thebaz wrote: »

overall I dont think he managed the game well ; but I have a bigger issue with those that decided to put a munsterman in charge of a munster/leinster derby

A Leinster man has been in charge of it before.

None of the decisions were anything to do with where he was from.
He managed a game well.

There could have been 2 more Leinster yellows and one for Munster.

Any ref would have given what he gave regardless of where they were from.

thebaz

bennyl10 wrote: »

A Leinster man has been in charge of it before.

and I don't think thats right either - for a professional derby game.

salmocab

I’ve no issue with the ref thing, maybe he could have nipped the messing in the bud a bit earlier. Ideally refs wouldn’t be reffing their home province but I don’t have much issue with it, it happens occasionally and I can’t ever remember thinking they were biased.

Thought this was the match thread when I wrote this.

bennyl10

thebaz wrote: »

and I don't think thats right either - for a professional derby game.

He wasn’t in any way biased though?
Like fair enough If he was given penalties for nothing, but he had no choice in what he pulled

He was a professional in every sense last night and tired to get the game flow a little bit he had no choice in the end.

Where’s he from shouldnt even be being mentioned. He was simply the referee.

Shefwedfan

Dont have issue with the ref last night but I think to stop any of the stuff they should have had a neutral. Last year it was Nigel so not sure why they couldn't have got in a similar ref. These two match's every season are the biggest fixtures in the league(outside playoffs). Thet get the biggest attendance and are known to be a bit feisty. So why not put the best ref out for it?

The rest of the season is reserve teams sent to Ireland to play Leinster/Munster so stick in whichever ref they want for those games.

thebaz

bennyl10 wrote: »

Where’s he from shouldnt even be being mentioned. He was simply the referee.

course it should , its professional rugby , not lower level junior rugby - and its a derby (just read some of the nasty petty comments - I wont go ther.