Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread X: [****]

troyzer

aloooof wrote: »

Shefwedfan wrote: »

These are the two biggest games of the season in Pro14. They have one of the best ref's in the World assigned to the League. Would it not make sense when the Rugby world is watching they roll out their best ref?

No more than players, refs also need exposure to big games to become the best refs they can be. Simply assigning Nigel to ref all the big games doesn't help the league in the long run. In any case, he had a perfectly decent game.

This.^

troyzer

No hearing for Sexton and Furlong.

Lowe on Wednesday.

Former Former

Best case for Lowe is a 4 week ban reduced to 2 for clean record and guilty plea. Misses Ulster and Toulouse games, back for Wasps. We can live with that

troyzer

Former Former wrote: »

Best case for Lowe is a 4 week ban reduced to 2 for clean record and guilty plea. Misses Ulster and Toulouse games, back for Wasps. We can live with that

Is it really possible they can give Balacoune two weeks for clearly tackling someone in the air intentionally and four weeks to Lowe for what was clearly accidental?

salmocab

troyzer wrote: »

Is it really possible they can give Balacoune two weeks for clearly tackling someone in the air intentionally and four weeks to Lowe for what was clearly accidental?

This is a fair point from an intent point of view Balcoune was much worse.

Former Former

salmocab wrote: »

This is a fair point from an intent point of view Balcoune was much worse.

Four weeks is the low-end ban for tackling in the air. Unless he's only been charged with dangerous play, he has to get 4 weeks.

troyzer

Former Former wrote: »

salmocab wrote: »

This is a fair point from an intent point of view Balcoune was much worse.

Four weeks is the low-end ban for tackling in the air. Unless he's only been charged with dangerous play, he has to get 4 weeks.

Why didn't Balacoune get four weeks?

troyzer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BV9nNijCfbc

Balacoune even partially wraps him for **** sake.

It would be scandalous if Lowe gets a bigger ban than that.

It's already scandalous that it wasn't a red which we all know is because it was the first play of the game and no ref wants to effectively end a contest before it starts.

Paul Smeenus

troyzer wrote: »

Why didn't Balacoune get four weeks?

He did. It was reduced (as is usual) for a previously unblemished record and being contrite.

Let's be clear lads - Jared Payne got two weeks for his red card. He was running, arms out to catch the ball, and Goode launched himself into the air and connected with Payne. With those parameters set, two/four weeks for Lowe is to be expected.

troyzer

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

troyzer wrote: »

Why didn't Balacoune get four weeks?

He did. It was reduced (as is usual) for a previously unblemished record and being contrite.

Let's be clear lads - Jared Payne got two weeks for his red card. He was running, arms out to catch the ball, and Goode launched himself into the air and connected with Payne. With those parameters set, two/four weeks for Lowe is to be expected.

What match was that? Wouldn't mind seeing it for comparison.

Paul Smeenus

troyzer wrote: »

What match was that? Wouldn't mind seeing it for comparison.

HEC at Ravenhill against Sarries. It was in about the fourth minute.

troyzer

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

troyzer wrote: »

What match was that? Wouldn't mind seeing it for comparison.

HEC at Ravenhill against Sarries. It was in about the fourth minute.

Just found it there, it looks very similar.

Paul Smeenus

troyzer wrote: »

Just found it there, it looks very similar.

I'd say Lowe's is a bit worse - he was never going to catch the ball. Payne had it, if Goode hadn't have appeared. But they're degrees of difference - definitely similar.

troyzer

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

troyzer wrote: »

Just found it there, it looks very similar.

I'd say Lowe's is a bit worse - he was never going to catch the ball. Payne had it, if Goode hadn't have appeared. But they're degrees of difference - definitely similar.

Yes and no. Goode didn't have as much height so the ball was more contestable. But that just makes it worse that Payne never left his feet.

At least Lowe has the defense that he was more likely to get seriously injured. Payne would have been fine, Goode wasn't carrying nearly as much velocity.

Paul Smeenus

troyzer wrote: »

Yes and no. Goode didn't have as much height so the ball was more contestable. But that just makes it worse that Payne never left his feet.

At least Lowe has the defense that he was more likely to get seriously injured. Payne would have been fine, Goode wasn't carrying nearly as much velocity.

I don't think that's how they decide these things. Lowe is in front of the ball when it hits the ground. I don't think it makes a massive difference though. I'd expect the same couple of weeks for Lowe, assuming he hasn't been red carded before.

troyzer

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

troyzer wrote: »

Yes and no. Goode didn't have as much height so the ball was more contestable. But that just makes it worse that Payne never left his feet.

At least Lowe has the defense that he was more likely to get seriously injured. Payne would have been fine, Goode wasn't carrying nearly as much velocity.

I don't think that's how they decide these things. Lowe is in front of the ball when it hits the ground. I don't think it makes a massive difference though. I'd expect the same couple of weeks for Lowe, assuming he hasn't been red carded before.

I agree that's not how they decide these things. Personally, I think they should. But I recognise they can't within the current rules.

Because I would struggle to tell Lowe with a straight face that the right thing to do would have been to chase a ball he was never going to catch and risk serious injury. He took a knee to the face as it was, it would have been much worse had he gone up.

Burkie1203

Some good news and not so good

https://twitter.com/leinsterrugby/status/1079744602293317632?s=19

Former Former

Poor old Dave Kearney.

If (when) Lowe is banned, we're going to be badly stuck for outside backs.

troyzer

Former Former wrote: »

Poor old Dave Kearney.

If (when) Lowe is banned, we're going to be badly stuck for outside backs.

Hopefully Daly plays this week. One game doesn't seem enough to harden the body after such a long time off though. And that's assuming he'll play which I doubt.

Lowe almost certainly won't be available for Toulouse but I don't think we're that shafted.

Bobster will be playing so Larmour can be moved onto the wing. Adam Byrne has been playing well, pop him on the other.

stephen_n

Former Former wrote: »

Poor old Dave Kearney.

If (when) Lowe is banned, we're going to be badly stuck for outside backs.

Depending on RK’s fitness we could be looking at Byrne, Daly and Larmour back three. That might be great going forward but wouldn’t fill me with any confidence defensively. Especially with Colby on the wing for them.

Faugheen

Former Former wrote: »

Poor old Dave Kearney.

If (when) Lowe is banned, we're going to be badly stuck for outside backs.

If Rob Kearney is back then Larmour can move to the wing, ROL/Adam Byrne on the other.

troyzer

stephen_n wrote: »

Former Former wrote: »

Poor old Dave Kearney.

If (when) Lowe is banned, we're going to be badly stuck for outside backs.

Depending on RK’s fitness we could be looking at Byrne, Daly and Larmour back three. That might be great going forward but wouldn’t fill me with any confidence defensively. Especially with Colby on the wing for them.

RK has to start. Larmour was very poor against Toulouse last time.

Former Former

troyzer wrote: »

RK has to start. Larmour was very poor against Toulouse last time.

Absolutely, but it's not clear if he'll be fit in time. "Expected to return to training" could mean anything

Dubinusa

Leinsters form has been iffy lately.
A scramble passed Bath at the rec.
A last play victory over Connacht.
A disciplinary disaster in Thomond.
Lowe will most likely be banned for the Toulouse match.
I haven't yet watched the match at Thomond, but reading the posts it appears we only played in the 2nd half. It's very concerning.
I thought that for the most part we're looking very beatable. In the 1st match in Bath, we never seemed to click. Against Connacht, we didn't really get going until the 2nd half.
I hope that our loss in Thomond is a wake up call. Leinster need to play rugby and maintain discipline for 80 minutes.
The target is on our backs and we have to react as double champions and perform like we are.
The loss of leadership from last season is obviously a factor but, it's a squad loaded with quality and experience, that really shouldn't have leadership issues.
I expect a raised effort against Ulster. The team is just too good to be mired in handbags and afters. Last season we rolled up the sleeves and went to work. The same must happen.
I am not too worried and think we'll get the house in order, but the drama and emotion must be nullified now.

Watching the conway/ Lowe incident, red card imo
Lowe didn't compete and I think he overran the ball. Probably a brainfart, but still a dangerous play.
Fair play to Conway, he's a dog and commits to everything. Superb player.

Former Former

Relax. Be grand.

Dubinusa

Dubinusa wrote: »

Leinsters form has been iffy lately.

We're nearly 20 points clear in our conference and we're using the pro14 to build squad caps and experiment different game plans and set plays.

I don't think our form is iffy at all, we just aren't quite as complete as last season with retirements and injuries. We'll top our pool in Europe with a home quarter final. We probably won't get a home semi final - but then I wouldn't be sure if Racing or Saracens would either if they had played away against Toulouse in the second round.

As for the weekend, I think they should ban jumping in rugby at this stage. CJ jumps into Pat Lambie and gets a red card and a week off. Andrew Conway covers all the distance to jump knee first into James Lowe's head and Lowe get's cited.

I appreciate that the player in the air is more vulnerable and the player on the ground has a duty of care, but I said it in the match thread - I really don't know what the hell Lowe is meant to do in that situation and it seems that he must be punished 'because the laws' as opposed to doing anything deserving of a red card in my opinion.

There have been a couple of similar red's this season and I just don't think the current approach is the right answer to solving aerial injuries in the game. I think banning jumping is the only way they are going to both avoid injuries and limit game ending red cards.

As for the rest of the game - Leinster were not playing a must win game and Munster almost were. I am happy to see the nark and bite from Leinster, they'll need plenty of that against Toulouse and certainly won't beat Saracens or Racing on the road unless they are prepared to play smack bang on the edge.

Some sloppy performances and Sexton thankfully got that one out of his system and should be a more level head for the business end of the season.

There was definite bad blood on the pitch and by all accounts plenty of it in the stands. All good in my book, won't sell out a stadium the size of Croke park anytime soon without that rivalry and glad to see it creeping back into the inter pro's.

Forum has been a catastrophe the last week however.

Squidgy Black

Sexton posted a photo of his kids on Instagram, and replied to one of the comments "hopefully they don't lose their temper like their dad".

I chuckled a bit, but good to see his self aware that he lost the rag.

MattD

I'm looking forward to seeing Daly back, outside backs are getting tight though. If O'Loughlin plays 12 the only available senior back 3 players are Larmour, A Byrne and then Daly and Kearney both returning from injury...

sydthebeat

Deleted User wrote: »

We're nearly 20 points clear in our conference and we're using the pro14 to build squad caps and experiment different game plans and set plays.

I don't think our form is iffy at all, we just aren't quite as complete as last season with retirements and injuries. We'll top our pool in Europe with a home quarter final. We probably won't get a home semi final - but then I wouldn't be sure if Racing or Saracens would either if they had played away against Toulouse in the second round.

As for the weekend, I think they should ban jumping in rugby at this stage. CJ jumps into Pat Lambie and gets a red card and a week off. Andrew Conway covers all the distance to jump knee first into James Lowe's head and Lowe get's cited.

I appreciate that the player in the air is more vulnerable and the player on the ground has a duty of care, but I said it in the match thread - I really don't know what the hell Lowe is meant to do in that situation and it seems that he must be punished 'because the laws' as opposed to doing anything deserving of a red card in my opinion.

There have been a couple of similar red's this season and I just don't think the current approach is the right answer to solving aerial injuries in the game. I think banning jumping is the only way they are going to both avoid injuries and limit game ending red cards.

As for the rest of the game - Leinster were not playing a must win game and Munster almost were. I am happy to see the nark and bite from Leinster, they'll need plenty of that against Toulouse and certainly won't beat Saracens or Racing on the road unless they are prepared to play smack bang on the edge.

Some sloppy performances and Sexton thankfully got that one out of his system and should be a more level head for the business end of the season.

There was definite bad blood on the pitch and by all accounts plenty of it in the stands. All good in my book, won't sell out a stadium the size of Croke park anytime soon without that rivalry and glad to see it creeping back into the inter pro's.

Forum has been a catastrophe the last week however.

i dont think banning jumping would work at all... in my opinion that would make the risk of injury much worse.

picture two guys running from opposite directions at full tilt, eyes on the ball... with no jump they will clatter face first into each other.... head clashes would be all but guaranteed.

theres nothing wrong with the air collision laws in my opinion. its a contest for the ball and to the winner go the spoils. in this incident conway won the ball as he got to it at his highest arc ... before lowe could compete.
However, had conway jumped beyond the ball and clattered lowe as he did without touching the ball then we'd be having a different conversation and we may see conway cited.,.. but thats not what happened.. again, he won the contest for the ball.

i cant actually think of many incidents of players jumping and not touching the ball and taking out another player in rugby, so it musnt be anything that requires special consideration.

troyzer

sydthebeat wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

We're nearly 20 points clear in our conference and we're using the pro14 to build squad caps and experiment different game plans and set plays.

I don't think our form is iffy at all, we just aren't quite as complete as last season with retirements and injuries. We'll top our pool in Europe with a home quarter final. We probably won't get a home semi final - but then I wouldn't be sure if Racing or Saracens would either if they had played away against Toulouse in the second round.

As for the weekend, I think they should ban jumping in rugby at this stage. CJ jumps into Pat Lambie and gets a red card and a week off. Andrew Conway covers all the distance to jump knee first into James Lowe's head and Lowe get's cited.

I appreciate that the player in the air is more vulnerable and the player on the ground has a duty of care, but I said it in the match thread - I really don't know what the hell Lowe is meant to do in that situation and it seems that he must be punished 'because the laws' as opposed to doing anything deserving of a red card in my opinion.

There have been a couple of similar red's this season and I just don't think the current approach is the right answer to solving aerial injuries in the game. I think banning jumping is the only way they are going to both avoid injuries and limit game ending red cards.

As for the rest of the game - Leinster were not playing a must win game and Munster almost were. I am happy to see the nark and bite from Leinster, they'll need plenty of that against Toulouse and certainly won't beat Saracens or Racing on the road unless they are prepared to play smack bang on the edge.

Some sloppy performances and Sexton thankfully got that one out of his system and should be a more level head for the business end of the season.

There was definite bad blood on the pitch and by all accounts plenty of it in the stands. All good in my book, won't sell out a stadium the size of Croke park anytime soon without that rivalry and glad to see it creeping back into the inter pro's.

Forum has been a catastrophe the last week however.

i dont think banning jumping would work at all... in my opinion that would make the risk of injury much worse.

picture two guys running from opposite directions at full tilt, eyes on the ball... with no jump they will clatter face first into each other.... head clashes would be all but guaranteed.

theres nothing wrong with the air collision laws in my opinion. its a contest for the ball and to the winner go the spoils. in this incident conway won the ball as he got to it at his highest arc ... before lowe could compete.
However, had conway jumped beyond the ball and clattered lowe as he did without touching the ball then we'd be having a different conversation and we may see conway cited.,.. but thats not what happened.. again, he won the contest for the ball.

i cant actually think of many incidents of players jumping and not touching the ball and taking out another player in rugby, so it musnt be anything that requires special consideration.

Competing for possession, failing and tackling instead?

It happens nearly every game? In fact, Conway did it towards the end of the game to Fardy.