Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread X: [****]

Heymans

If Lowe gets cited and is out for Toulouse we will be threadbare in the back 3. Thankfully Kearney has been above his average so far this season and we can survive Toulouse coming to town with Larmour and one of Adam Byrne ROL or Daly on the other wing.

Looks like a few of the academy lads might get a game against Ulster could we see Frawley Keenan or Kelly in at 15 again? Should be a good chance to blood a few more youngsters. Every cloud has a silver lining!

Former Former

Maybe we could just leave it?

Dubinusa

I wouldn't ban the aerial contests. They've part of the game. Lowe made a bad read and a bad play.
I don't know how the problem is to be fixed however. We've seen lads red carded for this and others not. Folua against Ireland is an example.
I assume the refs gauge the contest according to the landing. Folua was a yellow card imo. But, I think he did it twice during the same match.

Squidgy Black

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Sexton posted a photo of his kids on Instagram, and replied to one of the comments "hopefully they don't lose their temper like their dad".

I chuckled a bit, but good to see his self aware that he lost the rag.

Sat and watched the first half again in my parents. I can see why Sexton was losing his temper. He was targeted twice with late tackles at least at the start of the game. The second one was when he put an up a Garryowen and TWO Munster players charged in to him simultaneously flattening him well after the ball was gone. The AR looked at it and moved on. It was clearly late and they could have pulled out. It appeared to be the usual tactic to target Sexton and either trigger him or to slow him down. The former worked.

Later after the Fardy Murray moment he had words with “Frank” about something being discussed in the changing rooms before and he was dismissed completely as if that had never happened. 5 mins later he gets another lecture which he didn’t say anything to just put his fingers over his mouth and shook his head. He was told to talk to his players which he actually did as the previous penalty Joey opted for a kick at goal and Sexton called the players in for a chat at the posts.

In fairness to him he actually didn’t lose his rag much. Not as much as I did as all I saw was the referees reffing one team. Considering at this point he’s seeing his team not getting their fair share of calls I’m not surprised he’s lost his temper.

Heymans

All this talk of the law about competing for the ball in the air is making me weary. Thankfully we don't dispute it most of the time because we have an aerial champ in RK who regularly gets higher in aerial contests than his opponents. It is a thing of beauty watching a player rise above the opposition to claim a ball in the air. It is a honed skill and makes the game more competitive. Take it out of the game and you are taking bravery and athleticism out of the game all for the sake of players not being able to see if they are underneath their opposite number when going for a high ball.

There's nothing that can be done to this area of the game save for making the game safety prone and boring by taking jumping for the ball out of the equation. It would be a further nail in the coffin of what used to be a game of courage and aesthetics. Do not because we are on the end of a game ending incident call for the end of competing for the high ball.

Whoever gets higher in the air wins the competition for the ball and wins the duty of care duel. Leave it at that and admire the contest without taking away further from our beautiful game

bluedex

The Pro14 disciplinary update was interesting in that in only mentioned the following law:
"The referee showed the player a red card under Law 9.17 – A player must not tackle, charge, pull, push or grasp an opponent whose feet are off the ground."
Lowe didn't actually tackle, charge, pull, push or grasp Conway (to any reasonable person). There is a more general law, 9.11 which would cover it anyway:
"Players must not do anything that is reckless or dangerous to others."

antietam1

Ref could have been harder on Leinster but I thought he was very soft on Munster.
Tackle player in the air just a timing issue.
Awards Beirne a penalty while reminding him that he needs to release the player when part of the tackle?
Munster gave away 11 penalties and no yc even though some of the penalties were for foul play.
I think the only warning Munster got was a joint one to both teams.

Clegg

What annoyed me about that decision was that when Leinster where in the same situation as Beirne we were the ones penalised for not releasing. I didn't think Murphy was that bad, but his decisions weren't always consistent. But that's not the reason Leinster lost. I'd we had a full team on the pitch we would have won.

Ulster game will be interesting. By the sounds of it they're sending a weaker side to face Leinster. But I'd still like us to play something close to full strength. We haven't looked great when the senior players come back in after a few weeks off.

connemara man

match day thread was closed for a reason let's not revisit the past, lets look to the future

Dubinusa

Indo reporting Jack Kelly to Connacht and Deegan to Ulster on loan deals?
Kelly has never got a look in and hasn't impressed me, even for the u20's.
Deegan is a potential star and a massive loss if he were to go up to Belfast.

Buer

Deegan is a huge loss. He has the skills to his game that many won't perfect in a decade of pro rugby. What he lacks is power and physicality which he has the frame to put on comfortably.

Doris has a very high ceiling too...possibly higher but I would hate to see Deegan go at this point. He would potentially be starting for Ulster straight away if he could shift Reidy which he certainly has the talent to do.

Couldn't argue with the logic of it though.

Shefwedfan

Dubinusa wrote: »

Indo reporting Jack Kelly to Connacht and Deegan to Ulster on loan deals?
Kelly has never got a look in and hasn't impressed me, even for the u20's.
Deegan is a potential star and a massive loss if he were to go up to Belfast.

Deegan needs some more experience. A change and playing with Jordi would be good


Friend from Connacht made a good comment on podcast. He said that in Australia they had similar situation with one club with all the young players.


They put in system that the players could move for 1-2 years but they had option to move back to main club, also main club had option to bring them back.



At the end of the day it is to generate more players for Ireland, but if Leinster youth got 2 years away and experience and then back in to freshen up and strenghten Leinster then everyone wins :-) well for Ireland and Leinster

troyzer

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Dubinusa wrote: »

Indo reporting Jack Kelly to Connacht and Deegan to Ulster on loan deals?
Kelly has never got a look in and hasn't impressed me, even for the u20's.
Deegan is a potential star and a massive loss if he were to go up to Belfast.

Deegan needs some more experience. A change and playing with Jordi would be good


Friend from Connacht made a good comment on podcast. He said that in Australia they had similar situation with one club with all the young players.


They put in system that the players could move for 1-2 years but they had option to move back to main club, also main club had option to bring them back.



At the end of the day it is to generate more players for Ireland, but if Leinster youth got 2 years away and experience and then back in to freshen up and strenghten Leinster then everyone wins :-) well for Ireland and Leinster

Not for the team which only gets them for a year or two.

We'll probably never get Carbery back which is a shame

Shefwedfan

troyzer wrote: »

Not for the team which only gets them for a year or two.

We'll probably never get Carbery back which is a shame

Well Friends point was that the club has 2 years to show them it was better to stay with them. So the players says at the end they want to stay.



Carberry will never come back because it wasn't built into contract.

troyzer

Shefwedfan wrote: »

troyzer wrote: »

Not for the team which only gets them for a year or two.

We'll probably never get Carbery back which is a shame

Well Friends point was that the club has 2 years to show them it was better to stay with them. So the players says at the end they want to stay.



Carberry will never come back because it wasn't built into contract.

Yes but the counter point of course is that after two years, you could lose the player and have nothing but an academy prospect who isn't ready because they've had no game time

awec

The Deegan and Kelly loan article was just a speculative puff piece. It wasn’t insinuating that it was going to happen.

Dubinusa

Carberry hasn't really shown much at Munster imo.
I don't think his play at 10 has improved. Imo, he's better suited at fb.
Of course he's a loss for Leinster and I think Leo got the most out of his Skillset.
He may improve as a 10 and live up to the hype and become a world class 10, I don't see it. I may be wrong .
It's great that lads can be loaned out, it helps the provinces immensely and shows us what the players can do in a different environment.
My concern is, Deegan signs an Ulster contract and we lose him.
I see him as an Irish international and Standers long term replacement. I may be wrong again. with the likes of Boyle and Doris, however, the point is ,he's potentially a world class player that could walk out the door!
As far as Kelly is concerned. I don't see him as having much of a future at Leinster. He is way down the depth chart and would need an outbreak of the galloping clap to make the matchday 23.
He could be a fine backup at Connacht and deepen their options.
All in all, it crawls right up by shytepipe to see the quality of players that have left Leinster. Rant over.

Squidgy Black

troyzer wrote: »

Not for the team which only gets them for a year or two.

We'll probably never get Carbery back which is a shame

We don't need Carbery to be honest. He hasn't shown anything as the starter in Munster to put him above Byrne in the pecking order, and Byrne seems to suit our gameplan better and is a more natural fit for Sexton's replacement.

Deegan would be a loss, but I'm not sure the management team are completely convinced with him given Doris seems to be getting the nod over him. The past couple of months really should've been Deegan's time to shine.

troyzer

Squidgy Black wrote: »

troyzer wrote: »

Not for the team which only gets them for a year or two.

We'll probably never get Carbery back which is a shame

We don't need Carbery to be honest. He hasn't shown anything as the starter in Munster to put him above Byrne in the pecking order, and Byrne seems to suit our gameplan better and is a more natural fit for Sexton's replacement.

Deegan would be a loss, but I'm not sure the management team are completely convinced with him given Doris seems to be getting the nod over him. The past couple of months really should've been Deegan's time to shine.

If it is a case of Leinster unofficially being asked to pick one of Deegan/Doris and they're happier with Doris then fine.

As for Carbery, I agree that he doesn't seem to have kicked on much at all. He looks very ordinary in a position that clearly doesn't exploit his talents.

But I do want to have him back as our long term replacement for Rob Kearney. I prefer Larmour on the wing.

Clegg

I'd argue Deegan has shone when coming off the bench. Out in some very impressive cameos. But he has, for the moment, rightfully slipped down the pecking order. Doris has looked better in his starts than Deegan.

I'm not reading much into Kelly's piece in the Indo. All it's saying is who could benefit from a potential loan. It's nothing like the pieces written about Carbery when that story first came to light.

Former Former

awec wrote: »

The Deegan and Kelly loan article was just a speculative puff piece. It wasn’t insinuating that it was going to happen.

Yep, absolutely no substance to any of it.

The Rape of Lucretia

Dubinusa wrote: »

All in all, it crawls right up by shytepipe to see the quality of players that have left Leinster. Rant over.

It shouldnt. This option is to the benefit of Leinster - and if its to the general good of the international team, and to help out the other Irish provinces (who, while might win the occasional game against Leinster, are not really a threat in the longer term, bigger picture), then all the better.

Leinster is producing too many good prospects to be able to bring them all along at the right pace to top flight rugby. Letting them move to the other Irish provinces keeps them in the Irish system, and, if they reach Leinster level and are required, they will return. If these guys were being lost to English and French clubs it would be far more likely that they are lost long term.

Improving the prospects of Munster and Ulster being competitive at the upper level, and, keeping some serious rugby in Connacht even if the proportion of home-grown players there is negligible, are good overall for the appeal, support, IRFU earning power, of rugby in Ireland, and, as a result, of Leinster.

Dubinusa

True but...
But Deegan would not supplant Coetzee at the moment?
And then there's Timoney, who is a fine player.
I don't know what the answer is. I guess it's best they stay in Ireland. There's just massive competition in Leinster.
Deegan imo is an 8. I don't think he's a 6 or a 7. Doris is a very good 6 also, besides being a quality 8.
Most of the moves have worked out fine. Cooney is flourishing at Ulster and Conway is outstanding for Munster.

Thermoman12

Dubinusa wrote: »

True but...
But Deegan would not supplant Coetzee at the moment?
And then there's Timoney, who is a fine player.
I don't know what the answer is. I guess it's best they stay in Ireland. There's just massive competition in Leinster.
Deegan imo is an 8. I don't think he's a 6 or a 7. Doris is a very good 6 also, besides being a quality 8.
Most of the moves have worked out fine. Cooney is flourishing at Ulster and Conway is outstanding for Munster.

I don’t think any of the four provinces are in need of a backrow at the moment, he should move to a club like London Irish as he’ll get a lot of game time and they are likely to be promoted to the premiership for next season

Buer

Coetzee is a flanker by trade and has played about half of his games at 6 for Ulster this season.

Any back row would be competing with Reidy. Murphy and Coetzee would move as required.

Kevski

Was it announced that Saturday’s game had sold out? Just went on to Ticketmaster to pick up an extra north stand ticket but there doesn’t seem to be any available

Thermoman12

Team predictions for Saturday?

Sheep Shagger

Kevski wrote: »

Was it announced that Saturday’s game had sold out? Just went on to Ticketmaster to pick up an extra north stand ticket but there doesn’t seem to be any available

Try Team Exchange.

thegreycity

Thermoman12 wrote: »

Team predictions for Saturday?

15. Larmour
14. Byrne
13. O'Loughlin
12. Reid
11. Daly
10. Byrne
9. McGrath
8. Deegan
7. Leavy
6. Ruddock
5. Fardy
4. Toner
3. Porter
2. Cronin
1. Dooley

Dubinusa

Dooley
Cronin
Porter
Molony
Toner
Murphy
Leavy
Deegan
Jgp
Byrne
Daly
Reid
Rol
Ab
Rk

Jack
Byrne
Bent
Kearney
Doris
Luke
Frawley
Job