Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread X: [****]

Sangre

Former Former wrote: »

A Dublin native and product of the Leinster academy thinking about a return home to the best club in Europe. It's not an outlandish prospect like.

A St Michael's alumni as well so will know a lot of the squad already.

Dubinusa

I think that Ulster side while young and inexperienced may give us problems.
I doubt it will be a walk in the park.
As far as Kelleher, why would he return? He's playing consistently for Connacht.
The Leinster squad will obviously look a lot different over the next 20 months.
I reckon SOB will retire, DK may be retained, but at what cost? Is he worth a large salary? He's rarely healthy and has fallen down the depth chart.
RK should be retained until the end of next season imo, but not on a central contract.
Fardy may be forced out and there's no replacement so far coming up from the academy.
Healy must be retained. He's playing great and maybe the best lh in Europe right now.
All the lads who have left to other provinces, are beginning to look like they'll bite us in the arse.
Specifically, Jordi and Carberry and the lads who have retired.
It is a worry imo, key players aging and some academy lads only getting A league experience.
Although the academy churns out great talent, is there enough in the pipeline?
Fardy has been a great signing! Would love to see him get one more year. His leadership and example drives standards and losing him would be awful.
On the other hand, seeing Penny and Frawley getting a run is great. I think Penny will be kept with Leinster during the 6nations and miss the u20's competition.
All the previous talk of AB moving on seems redundant right now. He's working his way back into the 23 and is playing very well.
There's still no word on Reid and if he's going to the Tigers. I think he should be retained. He's a decent player and has lots of experience. Our center options are not ideal right now and I think Reid is probably our best option at 12.
I also think that ROL is a better winger than a center.
Interesting contract negotiations ahead.

Heymans

Buer wrote: »

Jesus Christ, please stop engaging.

Anyway, Kelleher would be a very odd signing. I know we're slightly short in the back three at the moment but we've still managed to put out decent enough wingers in every game to date despite the multiple injuries.

Would anyone start Kelleher ahead of McFadden, Byrne, DK, Daly, Larmour or Lowe? I wouldn't. He's good going forward but his defence is very poor. His effort for the Ulster try last weekend was cartoonish. I don't think I've ever seen a player let a high ball land on their head before.

If it does happen to be a potential deal, then I can only imagine that we're losing someone from the above list. I don't think the move would make any sense from his own perspective either. He's getting game time in Connacht and has improved, in fairness. He's going to get far less in Leinster and that will see his development stagnate. It will be Fionn Carr all over again (with less tries).

Yes that was embarrassing. You’d wonder what type of coaching he’s had through the years if he can’t mop up some run of the mill back 3 challenges

colster

Sangre wrote: »

A St Michael's alumni as well so will know a lot of the squad already.

His brother is in the Academy.

Heymans

troyzer wrote: »

I think he's a better winger.

Fullback suits his attacking strengths better and while his defensive game can of course come along in time, I'm always nervous when teams drop bombs on him. He's very short for a full back.

My dream Leinster back line is Lowe at 11, Larmour at 14 and Carbery at 15.

That's just pure filth.

And Carbery's experiment in Munster would hardly go to waste, we know he's a serviceable 10 in an emergency, it's just not the best place to exploit his talents.

All things considered I don’t think Carberry covers the backfield well enough to be a first choice fullback. I seem to remember high balls being allowed to bounce when he played there for us.

This of course can be coached out of him and corrected but I think his ability to straighten the line in attack from 10 is where his real talent lies

Peregrine

Dubinusa

Not to sure about Carberry covering the back field?
Everytime I saw him at 15 he looked confident and assured. His pace and guile are significantly better from 15 imo.
I know that he's not the best fb, but he could be.
At 10 he appears hesitant and lacks confidence when in tight matches. But, that's just my opinion.
I think he would be better than Larmour at fb.
I think Larmour is the successor to Earl's. He plays the wing like it's natural. He makes his tackles and hits rucks and seems more at home on the wings.
Just one man's opinion.

Dubinusa

How did Jack McGrath go? I hope he's sharp enough to play next week.
Massive boost if he's back on form.
It's also great to see Daly back. He certainly boosts our back 3 options.

troyzer

Has Abdaladze had any gametime this year? Saw him warming up as the 24th man last night but obviously didn't play.

Bent seems to be fading fast this season and I'm surprised Abdaladze hasn't been able to overtake him for the bench spot in these kinds of games.

Dubinusa

Yea, Bent hasn't been very good. Says a lot that Vakh hasn't gotten a look in though?
On a side note, it's great to see Molony and Kearney putting in good shifts.
I reckon Penny won't be released to the u20's. We'll be down a few back rows during the 6nations.
Anyway, biggest test of the season next week!

Squidgy Black

troyzer wrote: »

Has Abdaladze had any gametime this year? Saw him warming up as the 24th man last night but obviously didn't play.

Bent seems to be fading fast this season and I'm surprised Abdaladze hasn't been able to overtake him for the bench spot in these kinds of games.

Came off the bench vs Kings and Ospreys in November.

troyzer

Squidgy Black wrote: »

troyzer wrote: »

Has Abdaladze had any gametime this year? Saw him warming up as the 24th man last night but obviously didn't play.

Bent seems to be fading fast this season and I'm surprised Abdaladze hasn't been able to overtake him for the bench spot in these kinds of games.

Came off the bench vs Kings and Ospreys in November.

Oh right, so he must only have about 40 minutes or so total?

Not a good look, you would have expected him to push Bent out by now. Bent has always been a very limited player who was a decent scrummager and nothing else. He's not even really that anymore.

Dubinusa is right, it says a lot about Abdaladze that he hasn't been able to overtake him.

That being said and Bent undeniably declining, who is our third tighthead going forward? Him and Abdaladze both signed extensions at the end of last season.

Squidgy Black

I wouldn't be hugely concerned, you have to take into account that Bent can also cover both sides.

troyzer

Squidgy Black wrote: »

I wouldn't be hugely concerned, you have to take into account that Bent can also cover both sides.

He's never realistically going to be needed at loosehead.

Heymans

Dubinusa wrote: »

Not to sure about Carberry covering the back field?
Everytime I saw him at 15 he looked confident and assured. His pace and guile are significantly better from 15 imo.
I know that he's not the best fb, but he could be.
At 10 he appears hesitant and lacks confidence when in tight matches. But, that's just my opinion.
I think he would be better than Larmour at fb.
I think Larmour is the successor to Earl's. He plays the wing like it's natural. He makes his tackles and hits rucks and seems more at home on the wings.
Just one man's opinion.

I used to play full back so I know a bit about backfield positioning and covering that vast expanse of area with just 1 man (depending on the defensive system you use). Carberry was always late coming up for the last man tackle which says to me he's lying too far back or doesn't have the pace to close down the space and the man with the ball.

Also he let a couple of balls bounce which says to me he can't take a catch while running at full pace to cover the ground or it's just that his judgement of where the ball will fall is off.

As I said these things can be coached into a player but it strikes me that fullback is not a natural position for him. He hits the line well and can take tries in open space but any back worth their salt could fill in at fullback and finish off moves. It's the unseen work that can be telling when play opens up in defence where a full back earns his paycheque.

Heymans

troyzer wrote: »

Oh right, so he must only have about 40 minutes or so total?

Not a good look, you would have expected him to push Bent out by now. Bent has always been a very limited player who was a decent scrummager and nothing else. He's not even really that anymore.

Dubinusa is right, it says a lot about Abdaladze that he hasn't been able to overtake him.

That being said and Bent undeniably declining, who is our third tighthead going forward? Him and Abdaladze both signed extensions at the end of last season.

Abdeladze is a good scrummager and carrier of the ball from what I've seen of him. Could be his fitness and ability to get around the park that is holding him back because he's good at the fundamentals

salmocab

Imagine worrying 10 years ago about who was 3rd and 4th choice tight head.
We’re grand there one a veteran solid scrummager and one a young decent talent. I would say that’s as good as anyone could hope for at any club in the world. Especially as the first and second choice are both young and quality.

Buer

Bent is extremely underrated. He's still delivering solid performances. Does Abdeladze deserve more of a crack? Quite possibly given the respective age profiles but not getting ahead of Michael Bent is not a black mark against anyone. He's got 115 Leinster caps and counting under multiple coaches. His work rate around the park is still very solid and he makes very few errors.

Keep in mind that Abdeladze didn't come through the academy route instead working his way into the set up via the AIL (he was brought into the academy for a single season at 21 before joining the senior squad). His conditioning and knowledge will still be significantly behind those who finished a 3 year academy rotation. He also didn't start playing tighthead until he was at U20 level so he's still developing there too. He's still only 22 which is a complete baby in terms of tighthead play. Guys like Mike Ross and John Ryan didn't even make their first starts professionally until they were 26 and 24 respectively.

elliot_st

Vakh is in good position to replace Bent at the end of his next contract when Bent will be 34 and Vakh 24.

awec

elliot_st wrote: »

Vakh is in good position to replace Bent at the end of his next contract when Bent will be 34 and Vakh 24.

Replacing Bent and playing 4 or 5 games a year is not much of a career.

His problem is both Furlong and Porter are young in tighthead terms. He's going to be sitting around waiting for injuries.

elliot_st

awec wrote: »

Replacing Bent and playing 4 or 5 games a year is not much of a career.

His problem is both Furlong and Porter are young in tighthead terms. He's going to be sitting around waiting for injuries.

Bent has 115 leinster caps, so I think he plays more than 4 or 5 games a year.

awec

elliot_st wrote: »

Bent has 115 leinster caps, so I think he plays more than 4 or 5 games a year.

How many of the 115 are starts?

Buer

awec wrote: »

Replacing Bent and playing 4 or 5 games a year is not much of a career.

His problem is both Furlong and Porter are young in tighthead terms. He's going to be sitting around waiting for injuries.

With their involvement with the Irish set up, there's a lot more than 4 or 5 games to be had. Bent has 7 starts already this season, all at tighthead. He'll probably finish the season with about 12 or 13 starts which is a solid enough season.

It all depends on how much VA progresses and, if he does become a quality player, will he be happy to remain in that role.

Squidgy Black

awec wrote: »

Replacing Bent and playing 4 or 5 games a year is not much of a career.

His problem is both Furlong and Porter are young in tighthead terms. He's going to be sitting around waiting for injuries.

Bent has had 7 starts and 2 sub appearances this year already, with Furlong and Porter being the 1/2 combo for the Irish squad there's plenty of game time there between camps/international windows and then resting players. And that's not taking into account any injuries.

elliot_st

awec wrote: »

How many of the 115 are starts?

I dont know but he has 17 starts between this season and last.

So my guess is about half.

awec

Well jaysus, I stand corrected.

troyzer

Agree on it being a good problem to be worrying about third choice tighthead but the reality is that Furlong and Porter are superstars.

As those start stats show, Bent starts around half of the Pro14 games. It IS an important position for Leinster.

Bent is a fine scrummager but he's never been one for moving the ball around the park and he's being popped up more this season than I remember before. If he starts to become average at best in the scrum then you have to wonder what are the options going forward.

elliot_st

troyzer wrote: »

Agree on it being a good problem to be worrying about third choice tighthead but the reality is that Furlong and Porter are superstars.

As those start stats show, Bent starts around half of the Pro14 games. It IS an important position for Leinster.

Bent is a fine scrummager but he's never been one for moving the ball around the park and he's being popped up more this season than I remember before. If he starts to become average at best in the scrum then you have to wonder what are the options going forward.

the options are clear:

Vakh Abdaladze(22)
Jack Aungier(20)

with Tom Clarkson(18) looking very likely to join them next season.

Former Former

Bent has started a rake of games this year. He'd be second choice at every other province.

On a value-for-money basis, one of our best ever signings.

Burkie1203

troyzer wrote: »

If he starts to become average at best in the scrum then you have to wonder what are the options going forward.

Raid Connacht?

What are the academy options?