Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread X: [****]

stephen_n

Deleted User wrote: »

Generally speaking - everyone has a disastrous performance defending Nadolo.

Thankfully Nadolo also can't defend - at all - so it generally evens out.

Larmour did a fairly good job in the return fixture.

Zzippy

stephen_n wrote: »

The thing about that was Noel Reid chopped Nadolo down 3 times in succession at full tilt in that game. What was obvious in Byrnes attempted tackling that day was a lack of physicality. He was shying out of the tackles. I really like Byrne as a player, but for a big guy he lacks physical presence, both in his defence and his ruck work. It’s like the guy has the opposite to Jack Russell syndrome, he just doesn’t seem to realize how strong he is.

I don't know about you, but if I saw Nadolo running at me...

Buer

Zzippy wrote: »

I don't know about you, but if I saw Nadolo running at me...

Spot the Connacht winger.

Former Former

Game management is knowing what to do and when to do it. It was a major flaw in Madigan's game, and it is still a flaw that Carbery has. It's a strength that Ross Byrne has despite not having half the natural talent of Carbery.

Sexton is our best ever outhalf because he has the lot.

Shefwedfan

Former Former wrote: »

Fair enough, I forgot his injury. Still, he found himself rock bottom of the pecking order on the wing for a long time afterwards. He has/had significant weaknesses in his game that are more than just a figment of boards.ie collective imagination.

He had a terrible injury run which has been pointed out.



Every player in the World has a weakness in their game. It was a issue and he is working on it.Also he had that weakness before he got capped for Ireland. I think we can agree Joe Schmidt has a better understanding of the game.



It is easy to pick up on a fault mentioned on the radio and keep repeating it. Harder to understand his positives

Squidgy Black

Madigan hasn't been a huge success in Bristol at all, he hasn't even locked down the starting spot at 10. Sheedy has more caps than him so far this year. And his time in France wasn't great at all.

durthacht

Former Former wrote: »

Game management is knowing what to do and when to do it. It was a major flaw in Madigan's game, and it is still a flaw that Carbery has. It's a strength that Ross Byrne has despite not having half the natural talent of Carbery.

Sexton is our best ever outhalf because he has the lot.

At the risk of getting overly philosophical, is game management a natural talent?

Game management shows an instinctive understanding of the game in my opinion, and I'm not sure it's something which automatically develops as someone gets more experienced. I think it's a skill like everything else.

Former Former

Shefwedfan wrote: »

He had a terrible injury run which has been pointed out.

Every player in the World has a weakness in their game. It was a issue and he is working on it.Also he had that weakness before he got capped for Ireland. I think we can agree Joe Schmidt has a better understanding of the game.

It is easy to pick up on a fault mentioned on the radio and keep repeating it. Harder to understand his positives

I agree Joe Schmidt has a great understanding of the game. Not as good as you, obviously, but certainly better than me.

Just out of interest, how many times has Adam Byrne featured for Ireland since?

stephen_n

Zzippy wrote: »

I don't know about you, but if I saw Nadolo running at me...

Funnily enough I never minded tackling big guys, it’s the little ones who could step that I hated. Having said that Nadolo would scare the **** out of most wingers.

Buer

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Madigan hasn't been a huge success in Bristol at all, he hasn't even locked down the starting spot at 10. Sheedy has more caps than him so far this year. And his time in France wasn't great at all.

Madigan was injured for a period when Sheedy was starting. He's definitely first choice for them.

But he's not setting the world alight there at all or really justifying his price tag. Financially, the deal has been brilliant for him but I would imagine he'll be on a reduced salary at the end of this deal....which is fine given it's a 3 year contract.

He'll be 31 at that point and will be financially comfortable. If he has been smart, he should be very well set up after 4 years of massive money between Bordeaux and Bristol. But if he came back to Ireland in 2020, I don't think he'd be making an Irish squad.

Buer

durthacht wrote: »

At the risk of getting overly philosophical, is game management a natural talent?

Game management shows an instinctive understanding of the game in my opinion, and I'm not sure it's something which automatically develops as someone gets more experienced. I think it's a skill like everything else.

I think there's certainly an innate ability to dictate the game and make decisions. This obviously improves with time and experience but I believe those who have that ability have stood out in that regard from an early age.

Sexton, ROG, Ross Byrne, Paddy Jackson, Ian McKinley....they all had that unflustered, authority in the backfield from a young age and you could see it from the age of 20-22. They could link well with those outside, put them into space, dictate play and knew when to change the approach.

Guys like Carbery, Madigan and JJH are players with bags of talent who had very vocal supporters both in the media and terraces. They're all exciting to watch but they have never given me huge confidence in how they actually run the game from outhalf through their decision making despite being arguably more naturally talented rugby players than those in the first group.

Carbery is definitely one who is the closest to moving into the other group and he is going to be allowed the required game time at a young age to try and do so but, at this point, he hasn't locked it down but I think he might in the next couple of years if he becomes a bit more decisive.

durthacht

durthacht wrote: »

At the risk of getting overly philosophical, is game management a natural talent?

Game management shows an instinctive understanding of the game in my opinion, and I'm not sure it's something which automatically develops as someone gets more experienced. I think it's a skill like everything else.

Game management at a basic, fundamental level is the speed at which you make decisions and the quality of those decisions in delivering a desirable outcome.

Madigan never had a huge amount of difficulty with execution, it's the speed and quality of his decision making that held him back.

To make it any more basic would probably require a resident neurologist to discuss how the brain absorbs information and makes decisions but to put it simply - Sexton is a chess player, Madigan is a highly athletic tic tac toe player.

Buer

Buer wrote: »

Carbery is definitely one who is the closest to moving into the other group and he is going to be allowed the required game time at a young age to try and do so but, at this point, he hasn't locked it down but I think he might in the next couple of years if he becomes a bit more decisive.

Carbery's inability to find space against a 13 man Leinster left me very deflated about him.

I'm holding out hope that the pressure of the occasion and it still being early in his career is the primary culprit, but he did nothing for Munster during those windows and allowed the flow of the game be dictated to him. The quality of the opposition can't be ignored, but I'd have been pulling my hair out as a Munster supporter.

errlloyd

Deleted User wrote: »

Game management at a basic, fundamental level is the speed at which you make decisions and the quality of those decisions in delivering a desirable outcome.

It's interesting that you think his decision time is his problem. I always thought it was his awareness. Madigan makes good decisions but has access to less information. He occasionally loses grasp of "what we're trying to do tactically". Sexton is good at assessing a field for the opportunities and working out which one best matches our need. He then comes up with a strategy to exploit it. I think that's the trait of a player who wins you games you should lose.

Buer

Deleted User wrote: »

Carbery's inability to find space against a 13 man Leinster left me very deflated about him.

I'm holding out hope that the pressure of the occasion and it still being early in his career is the primary culprit, but he did nothing for Munster during those windows and allowed the flow of the game be dictated to him. The quality of the opposition can't be ignored, but I'd have been pulling my hair out as a Munster supporter.

I would hope/suggest that the approach against Leinster was as much due to instructions from the sideline as it was Carbery's play. Keep it tight and make sure you win the game.

It appears somewhat grim but Munster needed to win that game badly. I think the decision to go for the posts when they were 10 points ahead and got a penalty in a good position after about 45 minutes told us a lot about what the approach was and, in the end, they got the win which is the main thing.

Shefwedfan

Former Former wrote: »

I agree Joe Schmidt has a great understanding of the game. Not as good as you, obviously, but certainly better than me.

Just out of interest, how many times has Adam Byrne featured for Ireland since?

Who said I had a great understanding of the game?



I am just pointing out that many people, not suggesting you of course, just hear something on the radio/tv and continually repeat it at every chance.



Hard to play for Ireland when he has injury and can't play for Leinster. Only recently has he been fully fit and he is playing some great rugby.



But sure, why give him credit when you can talk about a issue in this game from 2017, 2 years ago now

scott1974

Just noticed the update from Lancaster before the home game V Bath, it looks like this calf problem has been around since the game in Bath. So it's been around for a little while (presuming it's the same injury)...seems likely.

https://youtu.be/uwi1T1_vXFI

Former Former

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Who said I had a great understanding of the game?

I am just pointing out that many people, not suggesting you of course, just hear something on the radio/tv and continually repeat it at every chance.

Hard to play for Ireland when he has injury and can't play for Leinster. Only recently has he been fully fit and he is playing some great rugby.

But sure, why give him credit when you can talk about a issue in this game from 2017, 2 years ago now

He's been back fit since last February. The idea that he's been kept out by a long term debilitating injury has only surfaced since yesterday.

We're talking about games from 2017 because he spent most of 2018 alternating between the stands, the bench and the A team. Cullen must have heard some awful stuff on the radio.

This is mental. Byrne has bags of attacking talent but his career has been stalled by massive flaws in his defence. That's beyond question. You can gloss over one or two bad showings but it was a pattern and Byrne paid the price.

He's looked better in the last few games, which you'd really expect given how long he's had to work on it. If he hadn't improved it would be very worrying. That said, the quality of teams he has faced has been questionable.

Toulouse will be his biggest test yet. I really hope he passes it and you can come back and tell me I'm a dick for ever doubting him.

aloooof

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Hard to play for Ireland when he has injury and can't play for Leinster. Only recently has he been fully fit and he is playing some great rugby.

But sure, why give him credit when you can talk about a issue in this game from 2017, 2 years ago now

How much game time to you expect him to get during the 6 Nations?

errlloyd

errlloyd wrote: »

It's interesting that you think his decision time is his problem. I always thought it was his awareness. Madigan makes good decisions but has access to less information. He occasionally loses grasp of "what we're trying to do tactically". Sexton is good at assessing a field for the opportunities and working out which one best matches our need. He then comes up with a strategy to exploit it. I think that's the trait of a player who wins you games you should lose.

Are they not one and the same?

Digesting the information in front of you - the place and position of your team and theirs and making a decision on the basis of that is down to timing.

Madigan, and Carbery tend to be more predictable and safe in their intentions because they haven't had the time to consider all options.

That's how I see it. To be honest, you notice it in any team based competition - even gaming. Some people just react quicker with better options than others.

vienne86

Anyone else going to the Wasps game? Four of us are heading over. Just wondering if anyone has got their tickets yet?

errlloyd

vienne86 wrote: »

Anyone else going to the Wasps game? Four of us are heading over. Just wondering if anyone has got their tickets yet?

I am going, I bought tickets from the Wasps website. I think they're just prints offs, so I have them yeah.

troyzer

vienne86 wrote: »

Anyone else going to the Wasps game? Four of us are heading over. Just wondering if anyone has got their tickets yet?

I'm heading over on my own so far. Haven't got a ticket.

I'm waiting to hear if the OLSC are putting on a bus.

Interested Observer

Former Former wrote: »

He's been back fit since last February. The idea that he's been kept out by a long term debilitating injury has only surfaced since yesterday.

We're talking about games from 2017 because he spent most of 2018 alternating between the stands, the bench and the A team. Cullen must have heard some awful stuff on the radio.

This is mental. Byrne has bags of attacking talent but his career has been stalled by massive flaws in his defence. That's beyond question. You can gloss over one or two bad showings but it was a pattern and Byrne paid the price.

He's looked better in the last few games, which you'd really expect given how long he's had to work on it. If he hadn't improved it would be very worrying. That said, the quality of teams he has faced has been questionable.

Toulouse will be his biggest test yet. I really hope he passes it and you can come back and tell me I'm a dick for ever doubting him.

His injury only surfaced for you yesterday you mean. He played 14 times for Leinster last season having been out injured for about 3 months. Seems fairly standard.

He played twice for the A team from what I can see.

troyzer

troyzer wrote: »

I'm heading over on my own so far. Haven't got a ticket.

I'm waiting to hear if the OLSC are putting on a bus.

Sorry, I meant I haven't got my ticket yet.

Waiting for the postman/postwoman/postperson/postentity.

Former Former

Interested Observer wrote: »

His injury only surfaced for you yesterday you mean. He played 14 times for Leinster last season having been out injured for about 3 months. Seems fairly standard.

He played twice for the A team from what I can see.

Yes, I forgot his injury. Jeeesus. What's a complete fabrication is the other one's claim that he was "only recently" back fit. If you're counting February as recent, I can see why we differ.

Adam Byrne was a regular in the Celtic Cup triumph this season. I don't know if he played every match but he was close and it was much more than twice.
Edit: and he played for the As twice last season after his injury, but that's two out of a possible three games. As Meatloaf said, two outta three ain't bad unless it blows your theory out of the water. Love that song.

Dubinusa

Larmour did much better against Nadolo. He made his tackles and he rucked like a forward. His positioning was great also. Adam Byrne is not the complete player yet.
His positives are huge, aerial dominance and powerful carrying ability.
When his rucking improves and his defensive positioning is not an issue, coupled with making hard tackles, he'll be a superb player.

Just saw the match from last weekend. Very impressive performance by all.
Second row was very good. Kearney is really upping his game.
Penny was great. His best performance yet imo.
Deegan was also very good. Josh Murphy is a workhorse and really gets stuck in.
Reid and O'Brien looked very comfortable together, it's like they'd been partners for a long time.
All in all, very positive all round performance.

arsebiscuits1

Byrne played in 6 of the 7 A games this season in the Celtic cup. All starts

He has played 8 senior games this season all starts. And played the full 80 in all of them interestingly.

Off topic but 15 games is a decent chunk at this stage of the season

errlloyd

The only real disaster against Nadolo was Kircherner, remember Byrne started against him twice, and won both games.

But lads, if we're write off players who got done by Nadolo we're gonna end up picking from a small pool.

Synode

Dubinusa wrote: »

Larmour did much better against Nadolo.

He did indeed