Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread X: [****]

troyzer

Great read. Can I have his tickets?

Stuart Lancaster: ‘I haven’t decided if I’ll go to watch England play Ireland’

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/jan/18/stuart-lancaster-interview-ireland-england-leinster-six-nations-rugby-union?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

troyzer

troyzer wrote: »

Great read. Can I have his tickets?

Stuart Lancaster: ‘I haven’t decided if I’ll go to watch England play Ireland’

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/jan/18/stuart-lancaster-interview-ireland-england-leinster-six-nations-rugby-union?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

Lancaster is such an incredibly likeable character and the below made me feel a lot of pride in the community around rugby in Ireland.

I was very touched that people from Leinster came to the funeral. In Ireland, a funeral is such a big thing and they supported me. This tiny church was full. We couldn’t fit everyone in.

ionadnapokot

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Lancaster is such an incredibly likeable character and the below made me feel a lot of pride in the community around rugby in Ireland.

He’s a class act. I even liked him when he was England coach!
I just hope he’s going to be involved in Farrell’s Ireland

durkadurka

ionadnapokot wrote: »

He’s a class act. I even liked him when he was England coach!
I just hope he’s going to be involved in Farrell’s Ireland

He is, despite the management/leadership Mumbo jumbo he dips into.
I’d say we’ll lose him soon enough.

ionadnapokot

durkadurka wrote: »

He is, despite the management/leadership Mumbo jumbo he dips into.
I’d say we’ll lose him soon enough.

I think the chat between Lancaster and Farrell has happened. But no word since this in Dec.
"We've spoke consistently since I've been at Leinster. We spoke consistently when I left England. I will catch up with him again at some point soon, I'm sure.

"The reality is that he's got until January 2020 to decide, hasn't he?

"There's still the Six Nations and the small matter of a World Cup to go with Joe in charge. Andy will have to time to shape and decide what he wants to do over the course of the next six to 12 months."

Donnielighto

It's surreal. Leinster were good with some key imports previously. But currently they are propping up other provinces to a certain extent through their academy outputs and tbh you don't really need the imports to compete they just add depth, Lowe aside but I wouldn't bet against leinster producing another stonker of a back three player, wing preferably in the next year or two. A nine of serious quality and you'd be able to put it up to most nh national sides for 1st xv anyway.

Connacht fan here.

troyzer

Donnielighto wrote: »

It's surreal. Leinster were good with some key imports previously. But currently they are propping up other provinces to a certain extent through their academy outputs and tbh you don't really need the imports to compete they just add depth, Lowe aside but I wouldn't bet against leinster producing another stonker of a back three player, wing preferably in the next year or two. A nine of serious quality and you'd be able to put it up to most nh national sides for 1st xv anyway.

Connacht fan here.

Hugh O'Sullivan has on the fast track for a few years to be the next big thing. Personally, I haven't seen anything spectacular when he's played. But he's still young.

As far as the back three is concerned, there are no standouts yet for me. Larmour is only in his second season though. Keenan looks okay, Kelly will probably be cut and the other two back three are only in their first year at the academy.

Having said that, Adam Byrne seems to finally be blossoming and I can see him putting his hand up going forward.

MarinersBlues

Donnielighto wrote: »

But currently they are propping up other provinces to a certain extent through their academy outputs .

Leinster have a few from Connacht and Munster acadamies as well.
Swings and roundabouts.

troyzer

MarinersBlues wrote: »

Donnielighto wrote: »

But currently they are propping up other provinces to a certain extent through their academy outputs .

Leinster have a few from Connacht and Munster acadamies as well.
Swings and roundabouts.

Ah come on now, be fair. There is one Leinster born, Connacht graduate and one Munster graduate from a squad of 50+.

As far as I remember anyway.

MarinersBlues

troyzer wrote: »

Ah come on now, be fair. There is one Leinster born, Connacht graduate and one Munster graduate from a squad of 50+.

As far as I remember anyway.

Two Connacht born players, one that came through the Connacht academy.
Taking the relative populations and playing numbers into account that is swings and roundabouts.

That's before we look at the relative strength of the players in question.

troyzer

MarinersBlues wrote: »

troyzer wrote: »

Ah come on now, be fair. There is one Leinster born, Connacht graduate and one Munster graduate from a squad of 50+.

As far as I remember anyway.

Two Connacht born players, one that came through the Connacht academy.
Taking the relative populations and playing numbers into account that is swings and roundabouts.

That's before we look at the relative strength of the players in question.

Henshaw was born and grew up in Leinster. It's just a geographical fact.

I'll give you Doris if you give me Henshaw. You can't claim both of them for Connacht using contradictory criteria.

Swings and roundabouts suggests there is an equal movement between the provinces. There isn't. And it's fine, Leinster will always produce more talent than can fit on its squad.

But it's madness to suggest that it's all equal.

Donnielighto

troyzer wrote: »

Henshaw was born and grew up in Leinster. It's just a geographical fact.

I'll give you Doris if you give me Henshaw. You can't claim both of them for Connacht using contradictory criteria.

Swings and roundabouts suggests there is an equal movement between the provinces. There isn't. And it's fine, Leinster will always produce more talent than can fit on its squad.

But it's madness to suggest that it's all equal.

I've no problem with it. It's to be expected from an area with leinsters population percentage. I imaging their schools and club numbers at teens are even higher proportionally. I've no problem, most of the lads who are in other provinces are only 3hrs from home anyway.

MarinersBlues

troyzer wrote: »

I'll give you Doris if you give me Henshaw. You can't claim both of them for Connacht using contradictory criteria.

The geography vs provincial structures has been done to death.
From my posts it is clear where I stand on it.
As a consequence I don't see them as contradictory.

My arguement was:
when you take ability, provincial resources and population into account, Leinster have gained as much as they have lost to provincial moves, Connacht has gained and lost in equal measure.

Swings and roundabouts.

troyzer

MarinersBlues wrote: »

troyzer wrote: »

I'll give you Doris if you give me Henshaw. You can't claim both of them for Connacht using contradictory criteria.

The geography vs provincial structures has been done to death.
From my posts it is clear where I stand on it.
As a consequence I don't see them as contradictory.

My arguement was:
when you take ability, provincial resources and population into account, Leinster have gained as much as they have lost to provincial moves, Connacht has gained and lost in equal measure.

Swings and roundabouts.

We'll have to agree to disagree then.

Either you use provincial structure as the main definition, in which case Doris is not a Connacht man. Or you use geography, in which case Henshaw isn't.

You're trying to claim both.

Bridge93

When Doris and Henshaw are included I think there’s 3 non Leinster Irish players in leinsters squad? There’s about 30 leinstermen in the squads at the other three provinces. Not that it really matters, but the argument it’s give and take is a bit rubbish

MarinersBlues

Bridge93 wrote: »

When Doris and Henshaw are included I think there’s 3 non Leinster Irish players in leinsters squad? There’s about 30 leinstermen in the squads at the other three provinces.

We would take your hand off to get Henshaw and Doris.

Henshaw, as in the first Lion the Connacht Academy has produced and who was idolised by all the Connacht fans, and more importantly Connacht kids who aspire to play for Ireland.

How many of our squad would ye make a direct swap for?
How many were lifted out of yer best 23?

Bridge93 wrote: »

Not that it really matters, but the argument it’s give and take is a bit rubbish

From a Connacht Leinster point of view, it doesn't really matter, that's my point.
Munster are the ones who really take the piss out of Leinster

troyzer

MarinersBlues wrote: »

Bridge93 wrote: »

When Doris and Henshaw are included I think there’s 3 non Leinster Irish players in leinsters squad? There’s about 30 leinstermen in the squads at the other three provinces.

We would take your hand off to get Henshaw and Doris.

Henshaw, as in the first Lion the Connacht Academy has produced and who was idolised by all the Connacht fans, and more importantly Connacht kids who aspire to play for Ireland.

How many of our squad would ye make a direct swap for?
How many were lifted out of yer best 23?

Bridge93 wrote: »

Not that it really matters, but the argument it’s give and take is a bit rubbish

From a Connacht Leinster point of view, it doesn't really matter, that's my point.
Munster are the ones who really take the piss out of Leinster

THAT we can agree on.

Donnielighto

Shefwedfan wrote: »

The point Rob Baxter made, which makes sense.


They have load of young players in academy. They are restricted to what they can offer in an academy contract so other clubs can come in and steal them. So they have to bring them into senior squad too early. They are then restricted in the senior squad because of the salary cap.

So they are left with player in senior squad who are not ready to play in Premiership. They have then to pay them wages which could be used for senior player, so they let senior players go. This reduces the players in the senior squad.


So it ends up with so many games they can't rest players. So long story short, throw a competition and it is normally Europe because the Premiership is their bread and butter.


Very logical to me.



Take the Pro 14. Leinster have played the second squad for majority of games and are 16 points or something clear in the pool. So the main players can rest for the big European games. It is a huge advantage.

The clubs have too much power and won't use squads properly lo get term. That's the issue, academy players being kept out by imports should be stopgap and unless you think they will stay long term should he generally avoided.

The academy issues you're on about are there for pro 14 as well and despite the salary cap prem teams have higher wage bill don't they?

Proper depth and developing players rather than the short term lazy approach would give a cheaper wage bill and be more able for the season, the length of which is self induced. BTW a salary cap is idiotic in a league with relegation. Its trying to level stuff out when teams need to be able to adjust expectations downwards if they don't think they will be guaranteed safety. A salary cap becomes a target.

thegreycity

troyzer wrote: »

Great read. Can I have his tickets?

Stuart Lancaster: ‘I haven’t decided if I’ll go to watch England play Ireland’

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/jan/18/stuart-lancaster-interview-ireland-england-leinster-six-nations-rugby-union?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

"Lancaster shakes his head and then smiles. “Leinster were fantastic and our friends rallied round. But the hole is still so big. Every day I think I’ll give him a ring. But it was great he could see me happy in Dublin, in the company of people so like the people from Cumbria. For him to know we won the European Cup, and come see us win the Pro14 final, was very special. He saw me happy again.”"

I'm not crying you're crying.

Interested Observer

Did the bulletin during the week not say Rob Kearney was fit and available? Has he just been left out? Odd if so.

DonVito

So basically pray for an Ulster victory in Paris, and we've a chance at a home semi in the Aviva

sydthebeat

So we know now that any win tomorrow will do

FrannoFan

MarinersBlues wrote: »

Leinster have a few from Connacht and Munster acadamies as well.
Swings and roundabouts.

Who?
Cronin via connacht.
Henshaw via connacht.

Considering the number of leinster players playing for other provinces it's hardly swings and roundabouts

FrannoFan

DonVito wrote: »

So basically pray for an Ulster victory in Paris, and we've a chance at a home semi in the Aviva

Rules have changed. No home semi if you win an away quarter anymore.

Media hasn't highlighted it

troyzer

FrannoFan wrote: »

DonVito wrote: »

So basically pray for an Ulster victory in Paris, and we've a chance at a home semi in the Aviva

Rules have changed. No home semi if you win an away quarter anymore.

Media hasn't highlighted it

If Ulster beat Racing in Paris in a quarter final, we would have a home semi. By virtue of being the highest seeded team left on that side of the bracket.

Burkie1203

sydthebeat wrote: »

So we know now that any win tomorrow will do

3 match points and Toulouse TBP win = Toulouse

3 match points and Toulouse no TBP win = Ulster


2 match points = Munster at home

1 or 0 match points and Toulouse get 5 and Munster are off to Toulouse

There is a scenario which can see Munster v Leinster too which is Toulouse lose, Leinster lose and get 0 match points. I think

Clegg

Can I say in the relative safety of this thread that I'm unimpressed by all Leinster's competitors for the Champions Cup? Racing and Saracens don't look as strong as last season. Their respective defences look more pourous than last season. And Munster are incapable of playing outside their comfort zone. If their forwards can't gain advantage they really struggle. Their backs are talented but there's no system or plan in place to get the most out of their abilities.

That's not to say that Leinster are favourites for the trophy. I don't think we're quite as good as last season either. We can get ruffled and lose our cool as evidenced by the away games to Toulouse and Munster. Ability wise Isa Nacewa is one of our greatest ever players. But he was also so cool under pressure. He won for us the the game against Exter at the Aviva through his decision making. We were miles behind, but he kept taking, and converting himself, the 3 point penalties. He had faith in the system and his teammates. I don't think that same ice cold decision making and rationality is present this year.

FrannoFan

troyzer wrote: »

If Ulster beat Racing in Paris in a quarter final, we would have a home semi. By virtue of being the highest seeded team left on that side of the bracket.

Yes. Sorry. Thought you were saying ulster would be in aviva as a "home" venue

Squidgy Black

Clegg wrote: »

Can I say in the relative safety of this thread that I'm unimpressed by all Leinster's competitors for the Champions Cup? Racing and Saracens don't look as strong as last season. Their respective defences look more pourous than last season. And Munster are incapable of playing outside their comfort zone. If their forwards can't gain advantage they really struggle. Their backs are talented but there's no system or plan in place to get the most out of their abilities.

Do I think we are favourites and better than those left in the competition when we're on top form? Yes most definitely.

But in saying that, I don't think we'll be as strong as last year coming into the business end of the competition, mostly due to injuries, and our first choice players not getting as many games together as a unit.

Racing look a complete basket case in defence, and their tactic is just score more than the other team, don't mind how many they let in during the process.

Munster's pack/defence are performing really well at the moment, but their backline is struggling to put points on the board and get things going.

Saracens are very much an unknown. Billy V is coming back into the fold, but on the other hand Farrell was withdrawn with an injury that's required surgery. You just never really know how they'll go.

FrannoFan

Clegg wrote: »

Can I say in the relative safety of this thread that I'm unimpressed by all Leinster's competitors for the Champions Cup? Racing and Saracens don't look as strong as last season. Their respective defences look more pourous than last season. And Munster are incapable of playing outside their comfort zone. If their forwards can't gain advantage they really struggle. Their backs are talented but there's no system or plan in place to get the most out of their abilities.

That's not to say that Leinster are favourites for the trophy. I don't think we're quite as good as last season either. We can get ruffled and lose our cool as evidenced by the away games to Toulouse and Munster. Ability wise Isa Nacewa is one of our greatest ever players. But he was also so cool under pressure. Through his decision making heron us the game against Exter at the Aviva. We were miles behind, but he kept taking, and converting himself, the 3 point penalties. He had faith in the system and his teammates. I don't think that same ice cold decision making and rationality is present this year.

Saracens got 28 of a possible 30 points. That is impressive. Racing been impressive at home.
Haven't seen enough to comment on performance really but both look strong and have booked home semis as a result.

If any of the main challengers look like they have gone backwards it's us. Struggled away to bath. Lost away to toulouse. Look convincing at home. We looked better at same point last year.