Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread X: [****]

Feel sorry for Leavy - he was so influential last year and has struggled with fitness ever since.

troyzer

Deleted User wrote: »

Feel sorry for Leavy - he was so influential last year and has struggled with fitness ever since.

He was class against Argentina just gone as well. He has to be the most unlucky flanker in the world in that he's injured a bit too often in a country with a seemingly limitless supply of flankers.

bm_1212

troyzer wrote: »

He was class against Argentina just gone as well. He has to be the most unlucky flanker in the world in that he's injured a bit too often in a country with a seemingly limitless supply of flankers.

rhys ruddock-itis its called

Bridge93

if any of our flankers are to be deemed unlucky with injuries i dont see how anyone can look past Sean O Brien.

troyzer

Bridge93 wrote: »

if any of our flankers are to be deemed unlucky with injuries i dont see how anyone can look past Sean O Brien.

He has the advantage of a really strong reputation. He'll always be given the chance to prove himself based on previous form.

Leavy hasn't got enough in the bank for that, he'll probably be staying at home.

You have to think if that's the case, he'll be considering a move to Connacht or Munster.

Bridge93

Yeah it will be interesting to see how it all plays out. Cant see all of SOB, VdF and Leavy being fit come September given their respective records so the decision may be a forced one

NoScrumNoWin0

troyzer wrote: »

You have to think if that's the case, he'll be considering a move to Connacht or Munster.

clueless.

troyzer

NoScrumNoWin0 wrote: »

clueless.

Is it? If SOB kicks back into gear he's going to really struggle to make it into the Leinster 23.

jaansu

If he can get fit for the Italian game, I reckon he'll be called into the squad.

NoScrumNoWin0

troyzer wrote: »

Is it? If SOB kicks back into gear he's going to really struggle to make it into the Leinster 23.

yes it is.

Former Former

Bridge93 wrote: »

if any of our flankers are to be deemed unlucky with injuries i dont see how anyone can look past Sean O Brien.

You could make the argument that Leavy has been lucky with injuries. His big impact was on last year's 6N, but he only made that impact because SOB was out and then VDF did his cruciate in the first game. Swings and roundabouts etc etc.

He will probably need an injury to someone else at this point, but I could see Joe having a look at him at 6 if POM went down.

troyzer

NoScrumNoWin0 wrote: »

yes it is.

Alright, I'll bite.

Why is it clueless? The IRFU have clearly shown in the past that they are not only willing but actively pursue a policy of allowing test level players to move between provinces when too much depth prevents them from getting game time.

Buer

There is more than enough game time to go around at Leinster to satisfy Ruddock, SOB, VDF and Leavy. How often do we actually have them all available? Conan is even having injury issues this season too which requires others to slot in at 8 too.

With the age and injury profile of SOB, it would be a terrible career move for Leavy to move to another province at this point. The biggest reason for him not being involved with Ireland more over the recent past has been his own injury record.

troyzer

Buer wrote: »

There is more than enough game time to go around at Leinster to satisfy Ruddock, SOB, VDF and Leavy. How often do we actually have them all available? Conan is even having injury issues this season too which requires others to slot in at 8 too.

With the age and injury profile of SOB, it would be a terrible career move for Leavy to move to another province at this point. The biggest reason for him not being involved with Ireland more over the recent past has been his own injury record.

Deegan and Doris are both putting their hand up now as well, especially Deegan. He's clearly ready for regular game time at senior level.

Scott Penny is clearly a special talent as well.

Buer

troyzer wrote: »

Deegan and Doris are both putting their hand up now as well, especially Deegan. He's clearly ready for regular game time at senior level.

Scott Penny is clearly a special talent as well.

Penny won't trouble Leavy any time soon. He's obviously rated but he's also going to need to be exceptional to beat out Leavy given his lack of size. I wouldn't say he'll be starting any European game for a couple of years anyway unless we have a serious injury crisis.

Deegan and Doris aren't going to be really competing with Leavy either. They're both specialist 8s who have a little experience at blindside which is probably as much down to trying to get them game time than actually seeing them as flankers.

troyzer

Buer wrote: »

Penny won't trouble Leavy any time soon. He's obviously rated but he's also going to need to be exceptional to beat out Leavy given his lack of size. I wouldn't say he'll be starting any European game for a couple of years anyway unless we have a serious injury crisis.

Deegan and Doris aren't going to be really competing with Leavy either. They're both specialist 8s who have a little experience at blindside which is probably as much down to trying to get them game time than actually seeing them as flankers.

I don't think Deegan and Doris are direct competitors to Leavy. I just brought them up to counter your point about Conan's injuries as of late. There's a seperate battle going on at 8 that doesn't affect the one at flanker for the most part.

My entire point began with an if SOB kicked on and stayed fit and dominant. If that doesn't happen I agree that there's no way Leavy moves on.

But if it does happen then it makes it really hard to include Leavy in the match day 23 and while I don't think Penny is breathing down his neck anytime soon, I think there may come a point in that scenario where it's in both Leavy's and Leinster's interest for him to move on.

I don't think SOB is going to kick on unfortunately. I think the best he can hope for is to be fighting fit for half of the games a season.

Granny15

troyzer wrote: »

Deegan and Doris are both putting their hand up now as well, especially Deegan. He's clearly ready for regular game time at senior level.

Scott Penny is clearly a special talent as well.

I really don't see why people think Deegan has put his hand up bar one offload against a beaten WASPS. He doesn't do the work of a 8 in the loose and hangs around out on the wings and off rucks waiting for ball to carry. And he's not even really very good at carrying either Doris takes in more defenders when being taken down.


Penny is small and needs to work on his mobility around the park. For someone so small you'd think he would be half a yard ahead of opposition to the breakdown - he's not I'd even go so far as to say he's half a yard behind opposition more often than not. He has a knack like Seaon Cronin on getting on the end of maul tries but like Deegan can't use that to disguise areas of interest in his loose play that coaches might pull them up on.

RugbyLover123

When is the last time Leavy, VDF & SOB we’re all fit at the same time for longer then a 2 week period? Never happens.

I wouldn’t be surprised if SOB called it quits after the WC with his injury problems.

Will Connors may turn out to be a great player but isn’t at Leavy’s level.

As mentioned, Penny won’t be pushing Leavy/VDF for a starting spot in Europe for at least 2/3 years and that’s if he gets to that level.

Doris & Deegan aren’t competing with Leavy, they are 6/8.

No way is Leavy going anywhere.

troyzer

Granny15 wrote: »

I really don't see why people think Deegan has put his hand up bar one offload against a beaten WASPS. He doesn't do the work of a 8 in the loose and hangs around out on the wings and off rucks waiting for ball to carry. And he's not even really very good at carrying either Doris takes in more defenders when being taken down.


Penny is small and needs to work on his mobility around the park. For someone so small you'd think he would be half a yard ahead of opposition to the breakdown - he's not I'd even go so far as to say he's half a yard behind opposition more often than not. He has a knack like Seaon Cronin on getting on the end of maul tries but like Deegan can't use that to disguise areas of interest in his loose play that coaches might pull them up on.

A lot of your criticism of Deegan was valid until recently but I think he's starting to get more involved around the park.

Penny is hardly small. He's almost exactly the same height and weight of David Pocock and he's only 19.

Clegg

Such is the strength of Leinster's backrow that Leavy will now be third choice 7 when he returns to fitness. He was Leinster's player of the year last season and one of Ireland's best too. I wouldn't worry about his future at the province however. Injury is frequent in the backrow and it only takes Ruddock crying off for Leavy to go straight to blindside.

Two years ago people were wondering if PoM would ever get back into the Ireland team. All it took was an injury to Heaslip and he was back in.

vapor trails

Leavy had a very similar injury profile up until the Argentina match. He came on in the 2nd half of that game and completely changed it in tandem with Ryan. After the match, I told myself, when this guy is fit he is the absolute best 7 we have in our stocks and nothing will now change my mind. I am sticking to that.

stephen_n

Buer wrote: »

Penny won't trouble Leavy any time soon. He's obviously rated but he's also going to need to be exceptional to beat out Leavy given his lack of size. I wouldn't say he'll be starting any European game for a couple of years anyway unless we have a serious injury crisis.

Deegan and Doris aren't going to be really competing with Leavy either. They're both specialist 8s who have a little experience at blindside which is probably as much down to trying to get them game time than actually seeing them as flankers.

Will Connors and Josh Murphy are in the mix too. Can’t see Murphy leaving as he’s studying medicine in UCD.

Clegg

There's nothing between Leavy and VdF for me. They both offer different things. You get a greater presence at the breakdown with Leavy and a higher tackle count and workrate with VdF. It depends entirely on the game plan. But I don't think one is inherently superior to the other.

Dubinusa

Can't see S.O.B sticking around for too much longer.
He's had a cruel time with injuries and rarely strings together a decent run of games.
He's 32 soon, so his body won't recover after tough matches like in the past.
Think Penny will be a very good player. But, not as good as Leavy or VDF!.

Richie_Rich89

Not much talk of how many players are absent versus the Scarlets on here?

Healy
Dooley
Cronin
Furlong
Porter
Nagle
Fardy
Toner
Ryan
Ruddock
Murphy
Leavy
O'Brien
van der Flier
Connors
Conan
McCarthy
McGrath
Sexton
Byrne
Tomane
Henshaw
Daly
Ringrose
McFadden
Larmour
Byrne
Kearney

Hard to see Leinster winning with 28 senior players missing

Clegg

Scarlets are missing 23 players for tonight. 11 are with Wales and another 12 are injured. It's really much of a muchness.

Richie_Rich89

Clegg wrote: »

Scarlets are missing 23 players for tonight. 11 are with Wales and another 12 are injured. It's really much of a muchness.

Sorry. When the number absent reaches 24 it becomes hopeless and there's no chance of winning - irregardless of who the opposition are.

Maybe they can scrape a losing bonus point

Clegg

Thanks for the input, Richie.

troyzer

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

Clegg wrote: »

Scarlets are missing 23 players for tonight. 11 are with Wales and another 12 are injured. It's really much of a muchness.

Sorry. When the number absent reaches 24 it becomes hopeless and there's no chance of winning - irregardless of who the opposition are.

Maybe they can scrape a losing bonus point

What are you on about? The team that went out and battered Ospreys and Dragons by 50 points had less senior players than this

DonVito

I'd rather give up VdF than Leavy. Every day of the week.