Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread X: [****]

troyzer

Former Former wrote: »

Brendan Fanning has tweeted that Noel Reid is moving to Leicester. No great surprise but still a shame, he's dug us out of some big holes this season and would still be a great player to have around.

Is he supposed to replace Tomua? If he can break into the 15, fair ****s.

But Leicester aren't going to be playing European rugby next year going off their form to date. So it'll be a step down for Reid in that sense.

jonok28

Former Former wrote: »

Brendan Fanning has tweeted that Noel Reid is moving to Leicester. No great surprise but still a shame, he's dug us out of some big holes this season and would still be a great player to have around.

Sad to see him go but Fanning is fairly spot in saying that Conor O'Brien fills the hole he leaves. With Marcell Coetzee signing a new contract with Ulster it seems that Max Deegan won't be on the way up North. Hopefully it doesn't mean he is let go abroad, He's a real talent who needs game time to develop, he might get game time hard to come by with a number of players like Doris and Penney seemingly ahead in the pecking order.

I'm gonna throw something out there that might be very unrealistic but it might be a good solution to keeping Deegan and allowing him to potentially get more game time in the future. I think they should try transitioning him to lock. He is slightly undersized for the position at 6'4 but he has the bulk, the strength and would be a dangerous ball carrier. I might be way off but just a thought.

errlloyd

Former Former wrote: »

Brendan Fanning has tweeted that Noel Reid is moving to Leicester. No great surprise but still a shame, he's dug us out of some big holes this season and would still be a great player to have around.

Geordan Murphy considers making his new signing the starting 12.

stephen_n

jonok28 wrote: »

Sad to see him go but Fanning is fairly spot in saying that Conor O'Brien fills the hole he leaves. With Marcell Coetzee signing a new contract with Ulster it seems that Max Deegan won't be on the way up North. Hopefully it doesn't mean he is let go abroad, He's a real talent who needs game time to develop, he might get game time hard to come by with a number of players like Doris and Penney seemingly ahead in the pecking order.

I'm gonna throw something out there that might be very unrealistic but it might be a good solution to keeping Deegan and allowing him to potentially get more game time in the future. I think they should try transitioning him to lock. He is slightly undersized for the position at 6'4 but he has the bulk, the strength and would be a dangerous ball carrier. I might be way off but just a thought.

Deegan is slight for an 8, considering Moloney was considered too light for second row a few seasons ago, can’t see how that would work.

Buer

jonok28 wrote: »

Sad to see him go but Fanning is fairly spot in saying that Conor O'Brien fills the hole he leaves.

Very different players. Whilst COB can play 12, we're absolutely going to lose something when Reid goes. I actually don't think there's another 12 in the country who offers the specific skill set that he does. If we're chasing a score and the game is opening up,I don't think we have a better player to come into the game. Unfortunately, he has other deficiencies which mean he'll never be trusted to be involved ahead of others.

I can't blame him for wanting to leave. His stock is relatively high right now and he's not going to get another opportunity to sign a contract on half decent money.

arsebiscuits1

jonok28 wrote: »

Sad to see him go but Fanning is fairly spot in saying that Conor O'Brien fills the hole he leaves. With Marcell Coetzee signing a new contract with Ulster it seems that Max Deegan won't be on the way up North. Hopefully it doesn't mean he is let go abroad, He's a real talent who needs game time to develop, he might get game time hard to come by with a number of players like Doris and Penney seemingly ahead in the pecking order.

I'm gonna throw something out there that might be very unrealistic but it might be a good solution to keeping Deegan and allowing him to potentially get more game time in the future. I think they should try transitioning him to lock. He is slightly undersized for the position at 6'4 but he has the bulk, the strength and would be a dangerous ball carrier. I might be way off but just a thought.

I just don't see Deegan doing it. He's a shade taller than Ruddock whose filled in in the past. But Ruddock is much more of a grafter than Deegan which would benefit him at lock.

6'4" would be fine for a lock at Pro14 level but for top European and International level - it's too small. Billy Holland is similar height and he is the shortest lock Ireland have capped in the professional era.

I don't see Deegan going for a position where he knows his ceiling is Pro14 standard. An early 20s player of his calibre will have more ambition than that. Leo as an ex second row would have a big say too.

Also with regards to Penny and pecking order, Penny is and always will be only a 7 because of his size. Deegan is very much and 8 or an occasional 6

sydthebeat

stephen_n wrote: »

Deegan is slight for an 8.

2" taller than SOB and same weight already, at only 22 years of age....

its not his physicality that will keep him from progressing as an 8

arsebiscuits1

Buer wrote: »

Very different players. Whilst COB can play 12, we're absolutely going to lose something when Reid goes. I actually don't think there's another 12 in the country who offers the specific skill set that he does. If we're chasing a score and the game is opening up,I don't think we have a better player to come into the game. Unfortunately, he has other deficiencies which mean he'll never be trusted to be involved ahead of others.

I can't blame him for wanting to leave. His stock is relatively high right now and he's not going to get another opportunity to sign a contract on half decent money.

On numbers alone Leicester are getting a 29 year old Irish capped, 114 Leinster capped player who can cover 10,12 and 13 and has an absolutely terrific injury record and is a goalkicker

Noel is a pretty easy sell and a terrific bit of business for a club looking for any sort of playmaker

jonok28

stephen_n wrote: »

Deegan is slight for an 8, considering Moloney was considered too light for second row a few seasons ago, can’t see how that would work.

Billy Holland off Munster is comparable in size and weight to Deegan and is doing a fairly decent job for them, I'm definitely not saying it would 100% work but I think potentially re purposing him to another position could be the making of him. I just am convinced he is far too talented to be let go or slide down the pecking order and if he is able to find a position which will utilise his skill set then I think it should be considered.

jonok28

sydthebeat wrote: »

2" taller than SOB and same weight already, at only 22 years of age....

its not his physicality that will keep him from progressing as an 8

I truly hope Deegan gets more playing time and is able to further establish himself for Leinster but I just think that Leo has a few guys he really likes and Deegan seems to be on the outside looking in to an extent.

arsebiscuits1

jonok28 wrote: »

Billy Holland off Munster is comparable in size and weight to Deegan and is doing a fairly decent job for them, I'm definitely not saying it would 100% work but I think potentially re purposing him to another position could be the making of him. I just am convinced he is far too talented to be let go or slide down the pecking order and if he is able to find a position which will utilise his skill set then I think it should be considered.

Touched upon above but... is he?

I have no beef with Billy and think he is an excellent professional.

But he has a solitary international cap in 13 professional seasons of Rugby and 1 trophy to his name.

If I were Deegan with his ability and age profile I'd be aiming for bigger and better things and not settling into a position that may well condemn me to the doldrums

troyzer

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

jonok28 wrote: »

Billy Holland off Munster is comparable in size and weight to Deegan and is doing a fairly decent job for them, I'm definitely not saying it would 100% work but I think potentially re purposing him to another position could be the making of him. I just am convinced he is far too talented to be let go or slide down the pecking order and if he is able to find a position which will utilise his skill set then I think it should be considered.

Touched upon above but... is he?

I have no beef with Billy and think he is an excellent professional.

But he has a solitary international cap in 13 professional seasons of Rugby and 1 trophy to his name.

Yeah, I would have thought Deegan would be more ambitious than that. He certainly has the potential.

jonok28

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

Touched upon above but... is he?

I have no beef with Billy and think he is an excellent professional.

But he has a solitary international cap in 13 professional seasons of Rugby and 1 trophy to his name.

There has always been better players ahead of him over the years and once you get to a certain age it becomes harder and harder to establish yourself on the International stage when both provincial coaches and International coaches want a younger player who they can mould and build up and develop within the system over a number of years. My main point was that their is precedent for someone of Deegan's stature to be successful in the second row.

arsebiscuits1

jonok28 wrote: »

There has always been better players ahead of him over the years and once you get to a certain age it becomes harder and harder to establish yourself on the International stage when both provincial coaches and International coaches want a younger player who they can mould and build up and develop within the system over a number of years. My main point was that their is precedent for someone of Deegan's stature to be successful in the second row.

But the point I was trying to make using Billy as an example is that there isn't really precedent.

I think Deegan is too short to prosper there.

Looking at all the top level second rows for the last 10 years, they have all been 6'6" or taller.

stephen_n

sydthebeat wrote: »

2" taller than SOB and same weight already, at only 22 years of age....

its not his physicality that will keep him from progressing as an 8

Maybe it’s the fact he’s taller makes him look slighter, he doesn’t have much physical impact though. He’s more like Jordi, in that he runs clever lines and uses good footwork. He’s 104kgs? That’s light for a lock.

arsebiscuits1

stephen_n wrote: »

Maybe it’s the fact he’s taller makes him look slighter, he doesn’t have much physical impact though. He’s more like Jordi, in that he runs clever lines and uses good footwork. He’s 104kgs? That’s light for a lock.

According to Leinster Max is 109kgs.

Nothing to say he couldn't carry another 5kgs.

Also James Ryan is 108kgs. But an unfair comparison because he isn't really human

sydthebeat

stephen_n wrote: »

Maybe it’s the fact he’s taller makes him look slighter, he doesn’t have much physical impact though. He’s more like Jordi, in that he runs clever lines and uses good footwork. He’s 104kgs? That’s light for a lock.

agreed....

but at 22 im more than willing to give him time to add that to his game.

lets not forget jamie heaslip started his career as a fast running evasive 8 before progressing to include a hard line, dirty ball carrying beast

stephen_n

sydthebeat wrote: »

agreed....

but at 22 im more than willing to give him time to add that to his game.

lets not forget jamie heaslip started his career as a fast running evasive 8 before progressing to include a hard line, dirty ball carrying beast

Totally agree, but wouldn’t be trying to move him to second row. He will never be built like Ruddock even with good S&C work. If he bulks up to 108/110 over the next few seasons it should be more than enough for 8/6.

stephen_n

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

According to Leinster Max is 109kgs.

Nothing to say he couldn't carry another 5kgs.

Also James Ryan is 108kgs. But an unfair comparison because he isn't really human

Surely James Ryan is heavier than that

RockBoysarewii

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

But the point I was trying to make using Billy as an example is that there isn't really precedent.

I think Deegan is too short to prosper there.

Looking at all the top level second rows for the last 10 years, they have all been 6'6" or taller.

I think 6’5” is the cut off point. You’d be excluding Itoje by that definition.

Buer

Billy Holland played lock for Ireland at underage level. He was already familiar and comfortable with the position long before playing there for Munster and he still ended up playing back row more than lock.

I don't think it's viable at all for Deegan to shift forward now. Plus, why would we want to take a guy whose best attributes are his skills and mobility and make him a tight forward where he'll have less opportunity to get on the ball?

troyzer

Buer wrote: »

Billy Holland played lock for Ireland at underage level. He was already familiar and comfortable with the position long before playing there for Munster and he still ended up playing back row more than lock.

I don't think it's viable at all for Deegan to shift forward now. Plus, why would we want to take a guy whose best attributes are his skills and mobility and make him a tight forward where he'll have less opportunity to get on the ball?

Lock is a non starter.

But you have to wonder what the plan is for him going forward.

the baby bull elephant

stephen_n wrote: »

Surely James Ryan is heavier than that

The height and weight stats provided are rarely accurate in the first place, they're also pretty much never updated after the player has a senior contract.

scrummieman

James Ryan's stats havent been updated since under-20.

sydthebeat

scrummieman wrote: »

James Ryan's stats havent been updated since under-20.

according to the ireland website.. hes 2.03 m (6' 8") and 108 kg (17st)

Yeah_Right

RockBoysarewii wrote: »

I think 6’5” is the cut off point. You’d be excluding Itoje by that definition.

And Brad Thorn. He was a pretty good lock if my memory serves me correctly. In fact, I don't think he was even 6'5".

arsebiscuits1

stephen_n wrote: »

Surely James Ryan is heavier than that

Surprisingly not.

108 might not be exactly it to the nearest pound.

But he is less than 110kgs. Makes him all the more impressive an athlete

Clegg

Yeah but Thorn was unique. He was built like a brick ****house and got off on crushing his enemies, seeing them driven before him, and hearing the lamentation of their women.

arsebiscuits1

the baby bull elephant wrote: »

The height and weight stats provided are rarely accurate in the first place, they're also pretty much never updated after the player has a senior contract.

They're actually updated a good bit.

Leinster tend to update them at the start of every season..

They updated Robbies weight this year

arsebiscuits1

scrummieman wrote: »

James Ryan's stats havent been updated since under-20.

Or he hasn't gained weight since then?

He's obviously better conditioned and a good bit leaner than he was 2 years ago. But he's less than 110.

Impressive really