Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread X: [****]

arsebiscuits1

I give awec about 4 posts before it's brought back to Pienaar :pac:

troyzer

I'm really, really sad about this.

He's one of my favourite players and it's going to be gut wrenching to see him leave.

Hopefully he stays healthy and has a massive impact for his last few months. Maybe it'll spur Leinster to do an Isa and send him off with a bang.

Ditto Ireland with the world cup.

thomond2006

awec wrote: »

I think people can try spin and talk about central deals or whatever, but at the end of the day if a player announces he is leaving and continues to get picked then it is absolutely one rule for one and another rule for another.

Either the IRFU pick players who sign contracts elsewhere or they do not. They made their position pretty clear on Zebo only last year, not really sure why it should be any different for O'Brien. POC was ages ago like Sexton, so not really relevant.

The optics are certainly not good.

This is not the exact same situation as Zebo given the timeline and to present it as such is dishonest.

awec

thomond2006 wrote: »

This is not the exact same situation as Zebo given the timeline and to present it as such is dishonest.

It's not? Player is announcing that they're leaving.

I understand why he'll get picked, it doesn't bother me at all, but it is absolutely hypocritical and makes a mockery of their policies.

Former Former

awec wrote: »

It's not? Player is announcing that they're leaving.

I understand why he'll get picked, it doesn't bother me at all, but it is absolutely hypocritical and makes a mockery of their policies.

It's the exact same as Paul O'Connell.

That's the only valid comparison

Riskymove

awec wrote: »

It's not?

if you concede the argument that its about a RWC squad then it isn't the same

The idea would be if Zebo was still in Ireland and announced today he was off to France after RWC then he'd still be picked until then

troyzer

awec wrote: »

thomond2006 wrote: »

This is not the exact same situation as Zebo given the timeline and to present it as such is dishonest.

It's not? Player is announcing that they're leaving.

I understand why he'll get picked, it doesn't bother me at all, but it is absolutely hypocritical and makes a mockery of their policies.

What policies? There's no obvious policy.

The IRFU does what's best for the Ireland team.

In 2017, that meant kicking Zebo out. There was no point continuing the develop a system with him in it when he wasn't going to feature in the world cup. It made sense to part ways at that point and spend valuable minutes on our other options like Larmour.

In 2019, it means playing SOB. He's embedded in the system and is going to the world cup. You'd only be spiting yourself to boot him out of camp which wasn't the case with Zebo.

thebaz

awec wrote: »

In fairness it absolutely is hypocritical and contravenes these supposed rules if he does continue to get picked.

he's not leaving, supposedly, until after WC - whats the issue still picking him while he is still a leinster player?

Nevermind the service he has given to Irish rugby - ridiculous to get worked up about it.

Squidgy Black

The IRFU are directly paying SOB to play in the RWC. It's not similar to the Zebo situation really, he was employed by Munster and the IRFU chose not to call him up and pay him appearance bonuses. The IRFU have already paid for SOB, why have him sitting at home getting paid, other than to send a message?

Look at it outside of rugby. If you were paying an employee, and they handed in their notice, are you really not going to use them over their notice period even though you're still paying them?

troyzer

thebaz wrote: »

awec wrote: »

In fairness it absolutely is hypocritical and contravenes these supposed rules if he does continue to get picked.

he's not leaving, supposedly, until after WC - whats the issue still picking him while he is still a leinster player?

Nevermind the service he has given to Irish rugby - ridiculous to get worked up about it.

He's annoyed because Zebo wasn't selected while still a Munster player.

molloyjh

awec wrote: »

I think people can try spin and talk about central deals or whatever, but at the end of the day if a player announces he is leaving and continues to get picked then it is absolutely one rule for one and another rule for another.

Either the IRFU pick players who sign contracts elsewhere or they do not. They made their position pretty clear on Zebo only last year, not really sure why it should be any different for O'Brien. POC was ages ago like Sexton, so not really relevant.

The optics are certainly not good.

What about 1 player who is happy to play the way the coach wants and another player who isn’t, regardless of their future club?

Also, there are absolutely no rules on this. The IRFU have left themselves open to making calls on this on a case by case basis. Because that’s the sensible way to do things. So yeah, it is one rule for one and another for someone else. Because cutting your nose off to spite your face is daft.

Ultimately we have Zebo, who was never first choice and made it clear he wasn’t happy to play the way he was being asked to while also not being paid by the IRFU directly. On the other hand you have SOB, who has been first choice for years and has always done exactly what the coach wants while also being paid directly by the Union. You can’t expect the two to be treated the exact same.

awec

You know what, the more I think about it the more I agree with you. Chances are, SOB is going to be done with Ireland in the not too distant future anyway. This is definitely his last World Cup. If you look at it financially he probably represents poor value for money, big contract for someone who really struggles to stay fit, so we may as well play him to get as much out of that as we can.

I was wrong, I see what you're saying.

thebaz

troyzer wrote: »

He's annoyed because Zebo wasn't selected while still a Munster player.

Personally I want Zebo selected , even if he is playing in France -

But ther is a masssive difference between Zebo and the SOB situation - be like not picking POC for last WC , players at end of ther career deserve a certain amount of respect IMO

molloyjh

awec wrote: »

You know what, the more I think about it the more I agree with you. Chances are, SOB is going to be done with Ireland in the not too distant future anyway. This is definitely his last World Cup. If you look at it financially he probably represents poor value for money, big contract for someone who really struggles to stay fit, so we may as well play him to get as much out of that as we can.

I was wrong, I see what you're saying.

Who are you, and what have you done with awec!?

thomond2006

It's a pity for Leinster but they got the best years out of SOB and this will help them keep their raft of young backrow players under contract and happy with their gametime.

It's being widely reported now so it looks like a done deal. 450k per annum is a lot of money for the IRFU/Leinster to compete with given the depth of talent available and coming through.

troyzer

molloyjh wrote: »

awec wrote: »

You know what, the more I think about it the more I agree with you. Chances are, SOB is going to be done with Ireland in the not too distant future anyway. This is definitely his last World Cup. If you look at it financially he probably represents poor value for money, big contract for someone who really struggles to stay fit, so we may as well play him to get as much out of that as we can.

I was wrong, I see what you're saying.

Who are you, and what have you done with awec!?

Yeah, what?

This is an internet first.

AdamD

I was getting all riled up ready to reply, then he changed his mind?!?! Dunno what to do with myself now

molloyjh

thomond2006 wrote: »

It's a pity for Leinster but they got the best years out of SOB and this will help them keep their raft of young backrow players under contract and happy with their gametime.

It's being widely reported now so it looks like a done deal. 450k per annum is a lot of money for the IRFU/Leinster to compete with given the depth of talent available and coming through.

Especially when you consider his injury profile. If I’m honest, much and all as I love Seanie, I think this is best for all concerned. He’s barely played for Leinster the last few years and we’ve a raft of guys looking for game time. And for Ireland he’s time has been patchy too while his age means he was always really unlikely to feature in the next RWC. We’ve guys who have already proven they can step up in his place. The change might be good for him too, on the pitch as well as financially. Remember Wilkinsons injury profile at Newcastle for example. And as Buer said elsewhere, it’s going to be harder and harder for him to reach the levels he had been at.

Podge_irl

Sport, sporting bodies and coaches will never have the same rules for everyone.

Rigor Mortis

Delighted with the SOB move. A pay day for him. A strengthening of ties with LI. He has played virtually no rugby for leinster. This frees up cash that Leinster couldnt have invested in him, if we was coming off a central contract. We can't have everyone.

troyzer

AdamD wrote: »

I was getting all riled up ready to reply, then he changed his mind?!?! Dunno what to do with myself now

Well now that an endless internet row is over, get the lad out and do the other thing the internet is known for.

stephen_n

awec wrote: »

I think people can try spin and talk about central deals or whatever, but at the end of the day if a player announces he is leaving and continues to get picked then it is absolutely one rule for one and another rule for another.

Either the IRFU pick players who sign contracts elsewhere or they do not. They made their position pretty clear on Zebo only last year, not really sure why it should be any different for O'Brien. POC was ages ago like Sexton, so not really relevant.

The optics are certainly not good.

Since when was it not one rule for one and one for another. Apart from the fact there is no rule, which has been affirmed by players such as Madigan. It’s a selection choice by the coach. If you’re not good enough, you won’t be selected.

I’d be amazed if SOB continued to be picked while playing abroad though.

Former Former

It will be no surprise if SOB does leave, he's definitely facing a pay cut to stay and he's not going to make the next RWC so it makes sense.

But London Irish? Bit of a rubbish club to join but his injury record probably scared a lot of others away I suppose.

He's a huge loss to us. I remember his first season and knowing he was going to a great player. The 2010-11 season he was just incredible and it went from there.

Our best ever 7.

Burkie1203

awec wrote: »

It's not? Player is announcing that they're leaving.

I understand why he'll get picked, it doesn't bother me at all, but it is absolutely hypocritical and makes a mockery of their policies.

Rory Best is likely retiring. So stop picking him?

The RWC cycle ends in November and everything is built around that. Zebo Would be picked for extended squads if he announced today he was leaving post RWC.

He announced he was leaving mid cycle. Not after that cycle. It's a massive difference

Clegg

Toner has been ruled out for the rest of the Six Nations and is a big doubt for the Champions Cup QF. Big blow for Leinster but provided Ryan and Fardy stay fit we'll still have a very good second row for the match at the Aviva.

crisco10

Clegg wrote: »

Toner has been ruled out for the rest of the Six Nations and is a big doubt for the Champions Cup QF. Big blow for Leinster but provided Ryan and Fardy stay fit we'll still have a very good second row for the match at the Aviva.

Blow alright. Also means that if Luke Mcgraths injury is slow to heal, we will have no chance of seeing James Lowe in the Champions Cup QF.

dub_skav

awec wrote: »

You know what, the more I think about it the more I agree with you. Chances are, SOB is going to be done with Ireland in the not too distant future anyway. This is definitely his last World Cup. If you look at it financially he probably represents poor value for money, big contract for someone who really struggles to stay fit, so we may as well play him to get as much out of that as we can.

I was wrong, I see what you're saying.

Frees up a spot for Jordi to come back after the World Cup too, suits everyone really

irishbucsfan

BoardAtWork wrote: »

So sports should be exempt from employment law?

That's an interesting point to argue.

An interesting point, invented completely off the top of your head.

Former Former

crisco10 wrote: »

Blow alright. Also means that if Luke Mcgraths injury is slow to heal, we will have no chance of seeing James Lowe in the Champions Cup QF.

Be grand, it's only Ulster like.

arsebiscuits1

BoardAtWork wrote: »

So sports should be exempt from employment law?

That's an interesting point to argue.

Which would make a nice change from what you've been pedalling the last few pages