Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread X: [****]

stephen.scrum

salmocab wrote: »

Fardy strikes me as someone likely to go into coaching, he may have a medium term plan working with some good coaches. There’s probably better opportunities after he finishes up playing in the northern hemisphere. I’d not be shocked to see him play next year and then pick up a coaching gig somewhere without shipping the family back south.

I'd expect him to keep playing after next season. Will almost certainly have offers and doesn't have many miles on the clock. Japan will come calling if not England/France.

salmocab

stephen.scrum wrote: »

I'd expect him to keep playing after next season. Will almost certainly have offers and doesn't have many miles on the clock. Japan will come calling if not England/France.

Yeah fair point.

Faugheen

Fardy seems to have settled somewhat in Ireland. I know it's not out of the question with such a small child that they could relocate elsewhere but when the child is old enough to start school/make friends then he and his wife would start long-term planning.

If he was to retire after next season (no suggestion he will), I wouldn't be at all surprised if the IRFU took him into their coaching set up in some way, be it with one of the provinces or underage sides.

jonok28

Faugheen wrote: »

Fardy seems to have settled somewhat in Ireland. I know it's not out of the question with such a small child that they could relocate elsewhere but when the child is old enough to start school/make friends then he and his wife would start long-term planning.

If he was to retire after next season (no suggestion he will), I wouldn't be at all surprised if the IRFU took him into their coaching set up in some way, be it with one of the provinces or underage sides.

I think he knows retirement is on the horizon and wants to probably keep his family settled here for the moment and maybe play one more season back in Australia before calling it a day. He wanted a two year deal with Leinster but the IRFU said one year, I think he sticks to that plan and finishes his career back in Australia.

Shefwedfan

jonok28 wrote: »

I think he knows retirement is on the horizon and wants to probably keep his family settled here for the moment and maybe play one more season back in Australia before calling it a day. He wanted a two year deal with Leinster but the IRFU said one year, I think he sticks to that plan and finishes his career back in Australia.

He can still sign another 1 year contract next year, isn't the rule a max of 3 contracts?

jonok28

Shefwedfan wrote: »

He can still sign another 1 year contract next year, isn't the rule a max of 3 contracts?

I don't think they are going to offer him another contract after this, I think they want to get the Academy lads in after the World Cup and they like Kearney and Molony and with Toner and Ryan in the mix it might get very crowded. I think him signing on for another year gives the academy lads some time to develop and mature with Toner and Fardy offering really experienced players and mentors.

Shefwedfan

jonok28 wrote: »

I don't think they are going to offer him another contract after this, I think they want to get the Academy lads in after the World Cup and they like Kearney and Molony and with Toner and Ryan in the mix it might get very crowded. I think him signing on for another year gives the academy lads some time to develop and mature with Toner and Fardy offering really experienced players and mentors.

Players over a certain age are only allowed a 1 year contract. That is the IRFU rule. Nothing to do with Leinster not wanting to keep him.



I would guess it will come down to how players progress over the next year but offering another 1 year contract next year is available

Podge_irl

Shefwedfan wrote: »

He can still sign another 1 year contract next year, isn't the rule a max of 3 contracts?

As with most things the IRFU do, there are no hard and fast rules.

salmocab

I’d be very surprised to see him land another year after this unless there is some massive unforeseen circumstances.

Shefwedfan

Podge_irl wrote: »

As with most things the IRFU do, there are no hard and fast rules.

I think Peinaar and Ulster might confirm the rules are hard and fast in this regard...

Squidgy Black

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Players over a certain age are only allowed a 1 year contract. That is the IRFU rule. Nothing to do with Leinster not wanting to keep him.



I would guess it will come down to how players progress over the next year but offering another 1 year contract next year is available

That's not an IRFU rule, Best signed an 18 month extension at Fardy's age.....

As Podge pointed out, the IRFU generally don't have hard fast rules, but rather guidelines that can be ignored under certain circumstances.

In saying that, I think it would be a poor decision to sign Fardy for another year after the RWC, we need to look at developing IQ options in the position, be it one of the academy lads, giving Molony more game time, or trying to find someone across the pond with Irish heritage.

mfceiling

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Had a baby here and his family are here. Plus we’re all such bloody legends

Must give awec a shout later to see if he can remember the name of that Saffer lad that used to play for Ulster. He had kids born in Belfast and seemed very happy there. Can't remember his name off the top of my head.

Former Former

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I think Peinaar and Ulster might confirm the rules are hard and fast in this regard...

No, Pienaar is the ultimate proof that the rules can be repeatedly bent.

Podge_irl

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I think Peinaar and Ulster might confirm the rules are hard and fast in this regard...

Not really. Pienaar was an indisputably first choice scrum half in place for 7 (?) years with no sign of any remotely capable Irish qualified player behind him for most of that. It was decided that it would not be in the Irish team's interest for him to stay on (justifiably I would argue). He should never have been allowed stay on in that position for as long as he was.

I think Nacewa technically had 4 contracts in his time with Leinster. There aren't rules - the IRFU will simply do whatever they want given the scenario at the time. They might allow one player 1 contract and another 3.

The Pheasant2

Buer wrote: »

Fardy was dropped due to Cheika wanting to look at younger players in the squad at that point. He brought in Ned Hannigan who is the like for like replacement i.e. a lock/flanker and still in the Australian team.

Hah they're welcome to old painty can Ned!

Delighted to see Fardy re-sign, 'wonder if we might see some other NIQ signings - hooker perhaps?

stephen.scrum

No hooker signing, they are prioritizing developing Kelleher.

troyzer

stephen.scrum wrote: »

No hooker signing, they are prioritizing developing Kelleher.

He didn't really stand out to me at all in his debut.

Which I suppose is absolutely the best you can hope for from a first cap hooker. His set piece was grand, he made some good carries, few offloads etc.

He was great. I think Leinster have big hopes for some of the forwards in the current A batch including him and the try scoring machine that is Scott Penny.

stephen.scrum

troyzer wrote: »

He didn't really stand out to me at all in his debut.

Which I suppose is absolutely the best you can hope for from a first cap hooker. His set piece was grand, he made some good carries, few offloads etc.

He was great. I think Leinster have big hopes for some of the forwards in the current A batch including him and the try scoring machine that is Scott Penny.

Did he not stand out or was he great?

P.Walnuts

stephen.scrum wrote: »

Did he not stand out or was he great?

I think he means he didn't look out of place in a Pro14 game, which as a 21yr old hooker on his debut is pretty good going

Shefwedfan

Podge_irl wrote: »

Not really. Pienaar was an indisputably first choice scrum half in place for 7 (?) years with no sign of any remotely capable Irish qualified player behind him for most of that. It was decided that it would not be in the Irish team's interest for him to stay on (justifiably I would argue). He should never have been allowed stay on in that position for as long as he was.

I think Nacewa technically had 4 contracts in his time with Leinster. There aren't rules - the IRFU will simply do whatever they want given the scenario at the time. They might allow one player 1 contract and another 3.

Nacewa was on his final contract when he first left, it was all over the place because it was felt no Irish player might not feel welcome anymore

When he resigned it was deemed as a new player so he got around the rule

Shefwedfan

Squidgy Black wrote: »

That's not an IRFU rule, Best signed an 18 month extension at Fardy's age.....

Best is Irish and different rules

This is not new, this is going on for years, Scottish second row who left just after picking up heneiken cup as irfu would only allow 1 year contract as over age limit and France offered longer

Serbian

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Nacewa was on his final contract when he first left, it was all over the place because it was felt no Irish player might not feel welcome anymore

When he resigned it was deemed as a new player so he got around the rule

This idea that Nacewa got around the “rules” by retiring for a bit and then coming back as a new player is nonsense.

I really don’t think these could be considered “rules” from the IRFU. More like guidelines that they’ll stick to most of the time, but will happily make exceptions when they feel like it. They made an exception for Nacewa and it paid off in spades.

joseywhales

Podge_irl wrote: »

Not really. Pienaar was an indisputably first choice scrum half in place for 7 (?) years with no sign of any remotely capable Irish qualified player behind him for most of that. It was decided that it would not be in the Irish team's interest for him to stay on (justifiably I would argue). He should never have been allowed stay on in that position for as long as he was.

I think Nacewa technically had 4 contracts in his time with Leinster. There aren't rules - the IRFU will simply do whatever they want given the scenario at the time. They might allow one player 1 contract and another 3.

It's like you are a consultant and have a yearly performance review where your output has to be 150% that of a full time employee in your equivalent role. It's pretty tough going but I bet it motivates them.

stephen.scrum

Jack McGrath to Ulster?

https://m.independent.ie/sport/rugby/leinster-rugby/mcgrath-in-line-to-join-exodus-to-ulster-37859685.html

troyzer

P.Walnuts wrote: »

stephen.scrum wrote: »

Did he not stand out or was he great?

I think he means he didn't look out of place in a Pro14 game, which as a 21yr old hooker on his debut is pretty good going

This.^

Podge_irl

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Nacewa was on his final contract when he first left, it was all over the place because it was felt no Irish player might not feel welcome anymore

When he resigned it was deemed as a new player so he got around the rule

You must have a pretty dim view of the powers that be in the IRFU if you think it is so easy to confound them and get around their pesky rules. If they genuinely cared someone would just have popped around and said "Nah Leinster, not happening".

Squidgy Black

stephen.scrum wrote: »

Jack McGrath to Ulster?

https://m.independent.ie/sport/rugby/leinster-rugby/mcgrath-in-line-to-join-exodus-to-ulster-37859685.html

Be surprised if it happens, more likely just part of his contract negotiations as his is up after the RWC.

We'll start to hear a lot more rumours about players moving over the next couple months. Ulster just seems to be the first port of call for any journalists.

stephen.scrum

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Be surprised if it happens, more likely just part of his contract negotiations as his is up after the RWC.

We'll start to hear a lot more rumours about players moving over the next couple months. Ulster just seems to be the first port of call for any journalists.

article says he has a national contract until the end of next season.

prepare to be surprised.

Clegg

IIRC The Carbery transfer was rubbished when the first stories started cropping up. These stories mist be taken seriously.

McGrath seems to be in a similar position to Jordi. Lost his place in the starting 15 but too good to not start elsewhere. Does grate tho from a Leinster perspective. Other provinces reaping the benefits of another's hard work.

Buer

stephen.scrum wrote: »

Jack McGrath to Ulster?

https://m.independent.ie/sport/rugby/leinster-rugby/mcgrath-in-line-to-join-exodus-to-ulster-37859685.html

I mentioned 2-3 weeks ago that I thought McGrath was a very strong contender to leave Leinster with his age, injuries, loss of Irish/Leinster spot and emergence of Ed Byrne.

It gives me little joy to see it a likely outcome. He will be by far the highest profile move between provinces if it goes through and he is at an age where he should be peaking right now.

The article says they believe there's another season on his existing deal but he last signed a contract in 2016 from what I can see...I don't imagine that was a 4 year deal nor has he reportedly signed any new deal since then. Other online articles say his contract ends in 2019 so I'd believe that to be more likely.

From McGrath's perspective as well as the perspective of Irish rugby, I can see why the deal is being proposed. It makes sense for those involved but Leinster are undoubtedly losing out overall. Ed Byrne's progress and rise through the ranks is going well though which should minimise the loss, if the deal goes through.