Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread X: [****]

stephen_n

jonok28 wrote: »

I don't think it would be crazy for Healy after playing brilliantly for the last 18 months and nearly being forced into retirement to go abroad and cash in for his last contract when Leinster have two young props in Dooley and Byrne waiting to get their chance. It definitely wouldn't be ideal to lose both props but I think the older Leinster players don't have much left to prove and it makes sense for them to cash in abroad after the World Cup like Sean O'Brien. I think if the money is right Healy could stay on with Leinster but I just don't see them matching what the French clubs would probably offer.

On current form Healy will get a central contract I’d imagine.

Zzippy

stephen_n wrote: »

I broadly agree, but rugby is a 23 man game, the bench is part of the team a very vital part. We are not talking about players here who are not getting first team rugby or who’s international aspirations are being lessened. Players are free agents they make they’re choices and that’s fine. It’s worked well for Jordi and Joey. Doesn’t mean fans aren’t going to be upset when they go. But there is a certain smugness (jealousy) from other provinces fans that’s probably grating just a tad.

It grates for other teams when Leinster do it, was my initial point, yet from quite a few posters there's a condescension along the lines of "of course he'd leave, why would he not want to play for Leinster". So it goes both ways.

stephen_n wrote: »

As a matter of interest when was the last time Connacht lost 3 international players in 12 months to other provinces?

We never had 3 current internationals until recent years, but we lost Cronin, Keatley and Carr, who were the backbone of our team at the time, to Leinster and Munster in 2011. That was a far bigger blow to Connacht at the time than losing 3 players is to Leinster. We also lost McCarthy to Leinster in 2013, and Henshaw in 2016. It may be grating for Leinster to lose bench players, but try having your very best players cherry picked. You'll like it even less, I assure you.

salmocab

jonok28 wrote: »

I don't think it would be crazy for Healy after playing brilliantly for the last 18 months and nearly being forced into retirement to go abroad and cash in for his last contract when Leinster have two young props in Dooley and Byrne waiting to get their chance. It definitely wouldn't be ideal to lose both props but I think the older Leinster players don't have much left to prove and it makes sense for them to cash in abroad after the World Cup like Sean O'Brien. I think if the money is right Healy could stay on with Leinster but I just don't see them matching what the French clubs would probably offer.

I was more thinking I don’t see Leinster letting themselves get into a situation where 2 top internationals in the same position aren’t renewing contracts. I’m sure talks do be well advanced before we hear anything

stephen.scrum

salmocab wrote: »

I was more thinking I don’t see Leinster letting themselves get into a situation where 2 top internationals in the same position aren’t renewing contracts. I’m sure talks do be well advanced before we hear anything

Not upto Leinster, both are on central contracts and dealing with the IRFU.

Buer

AdamD wrote: »

Larmour and James Ryan both came with more hype I would have thought

Comfortably. Carbery didn't have any hype behind him until he actually played senior rugby for Leinster. He was on the bench for Ireland at U20 level but, then again, so was Conor Murray.

Rigor Mortis

stephen.scrum wrote: »

James Ryan was a better prospect than Joey.

May have been a better prospect but he wasnt more hyped. The Graham Henry quotes blew Carberry up very quickly.

stephen.scrum

Rigor Mortis wrote: »

May have been a better prospect but he wasnt more hyped. The Graham Henry quotes blew Carberry up very quickly.

He was more hyped.

https://www.the42.ie/ireland-u20s-james-ryan-paul-oconnell-2639393-Mar2016/

salmocab

stephen.scrum wrote: »

Not upto Leinster, both are on central contracts and dealing with the IRFU.

I’m sure Leinster are aware of negotiations and are in contact with the players and the irfu. I find it very unlikely that if MC Grath suggests leaving for more game time that nobody thought better check what Healy’s situation is.

jonok28

salmocab wrote: »

I was more thinking I don’t see Leinster letting themselves get into a situation where 2 top internationals in the same position aren’t renewing contracts. I’m sure talks do be well advanced before we hear anything

I very much hope Healy stays on, I think he has two or three high level years ahead of him and I hope that if McGrath moves Healy stays but I heard on numerous occasions he wants a three years deal and a pay bump and The IRFU are only willing to offer 2 years at around the same money he is on now. He could probably go to France and get that third year and more money.

stephen.scrum

salmocab wrote: »

I’m sure Leinster are aware of negotiations and are in contact with the players and the irfu. I find it very unlikely that if MC Grath suggests leaving for more game time that nobody thought better check what Healy’s situation is.

and ultimately its the IRFU who will negotiate with both players, if IRFU wont give healy what he wants, not much leinster can do.

Spideog Rua

Does anyone believe this was McGraths idea, per the Indo?

stephen.scrum

Spideog Rua wrote: »

Does anyone believe this was McGraths idea, per the Indo?

I'm sure he talked to Joe about what he needed to do to play for Ireland after losing his place to Kilcoyne and i;m sure Joe told him to play and start more games.

1+1 = 2 from there.

Zzippy

Spideog Rua wrote: »

Does anyone believe this was McGraths idea, per the Indo?

His or his agent...

molloyjh

Spideog Rua wrote: »

Does anyone believe this was McGraths idea, per the Indo?

In the big games he’s been available for he’s only been getting 20-30 mins. I can understand why he’d want more than that.

stephen_n

Zzippy wrote: »

It grates for other teams when Leinster do it, was my initial point, yet from quite a few posters there's a condescension along the lines of "of course he'd leave, why would he not want to play for Leinster". So it goes both ways.




We never had 3 current internationals until recent years, but we lost Cronin, Keatley and Carr, who were the backbone of our team at the time, to Leinster and Munster in 2011. That was a far bigger blow to Connacht at the time than losing 3 players is to Leinster. We also lost McCarthy to Leinster in 2013, and Henshaw in 2016. It may be grating for Leinster to lose bench players, but try having your very best players cherry picked. You'll like it even less, I assure you.

That is completely disingenuous to call them bench players, but then again you know that.

Clegg

Posters on Babbling Brook are worried about Porter now too. I can see where they're coming from, but I think it's different for a few reasons. One being he's still so young for a tight head that he has years to develop his scrummaging technique. The other being that Ulster and Munster have decent starting tight heads. Reckon he'll stay on a bit longer at Leinster, but in a few years time, if he develops like we hope, he could leave.

Zzippy

stephen_n wrote: »

That is completely disingenuous to call them bench players, but then again you know that.

The fact that you consider it disingenuous, but that it is technically 100% correct, just reinforces the point that Leinster are stacked with internationals compared to other teams, and Leinster fans can't really complain when international quality players want more gametime to further their international ambitions, whether they are up and coming players (Carbery), in a stacked position (Murphy) or have fallen behind other players (McGrath).

irishbucsfan

Don’t see why McGrath wouldn’t want to go to Ulster.

Fair play to him. Great player and would be great for Ulster. At the same time, plenty of potential replacements around the province.

P.Walnuts

stephen.scrum wrote: »

and ultimately its the IRFU who will negotiate with both players, if IRFU wont give healy what he wants, not much leinster can do.

It's time for the most heart wrenching time of every week, when this account gets banned. Even after the 378th time, it doesn't get an easier.

Sleep well sweet prince.

jonok28

Clegg wrote: »

Posters on Babbling Brook are worried about Porter now too. I can see where they're coming from, but I think it's different for a few reasons. One being he's still so young for a tight head that he has years to develop his scrummaging technique. The other being that Ulster and Munster have decent starting tight heads. Reckon he'll stay on a bit longer at Leinster, but in a few years time, if he develops like we hope, he could leave.

Porter is going to see alot of playing time over the next couple of years for Leinster so I have no worries about him plus he has only extended his deal with Leinster at the start of the season, Yes Furlong is going to be Ireland and Leinster's main tighthead for a long time but he is definitely not going to be playing every game week in week out, plus Porter is at a far different stage of his career than McGrath. Ulster have Marty Moore, Connacht have Finlay Bealham and Munster have John Ryan all of which are at International standard so there isn't a massive need for a tighthead prop at any province.

stephen_n

Zzippy wrote: »

The fact that you consider it disingenuous, but that it is technically 100% correct, just reinforces the point that Leinster are stacked with internationals compared to other teams, and Leinster fans can't really complain when international quality players want more gametime to further their international ambitions, whether they are up and coming players (Carbery), in a stacked position (Murphy) or have fallen behind other players (McGrath).

McGrath inform and uninjured was swapping starts with Healy. Carberry was starting plenty of big games for Leinster just not as 10.

Dubinusa

This would leave Leinster wounded imo.
Dooley and Byrne would most likely never attain the heights Jack has!
We're discussing a Lion here, a 50+ international capped player.
The knock on affect for Leinster, puts them in a position where an area of strength becomes weaker.
Milne is the only lh in the academy! He's just 20 and no one knows if he's a good prospect. Besides. If he is, he's years away from making an impact.
If Healy leaves and Jack leaves, we'll have to import a lh imo.
Byrne and Dooley whilst good players are not near the same level.
I had a feeling that this may arise. Both of our loose heads looking elsewhere. Healy for a much deserved retirement and Jack cos he's still trying to recover form.
Would there be any logic to switching Porter back to lh?
But then, we're not deep at th?
Leo must me bulling inside. Trying to keep guys on the pitch and introducing young players and keep everyone happy.
He must feel like a puppet master.
I think the next few years are crucial for Leinster. The hub of last years side are older. Close to retirement and losing quality international players most likely would mean we'd not win or contend for silverware.
Players that are on the cusp of retirement:
Cronin, maybe 2 years left.
Kearney, a year or so left
Toner. 2 or 3 years left
Sexton, 2 years ...maybe
Fardy, 1 year
Ferg, most likely not resigned.
Tomane, not doing well. Form and injury
All in all, last years team will be scattered around the provinces and Europe.
But, fair play to Jack if he does leave. I wish him the best.

joseywhales

I'm fine with all this if it gives us room to negotiate for a marquee NIQ post world cup in any position in the 600k+ category.

We have great loosehead props right now in fairness, similar to backrow.

jonok28

Dubinusa wrote: »

This would leave Leinster wounded imo.
Dooley and Byrne would most likely never attain the heights Jack has!
We're discussing a Lion here, a 50+ international capped player.
The knock on affect for Leinster, puts them in a position where an area of strength becomes weaker.
Milne is the only lh in the academy! He's just 20 and no one knows if he's a good prospect. Besides. If he is, he's years away from making an impact.
If Healy leaves and Jack leaves, we'll have to import a lh imo.
Byrne and Dooley whilst good players are not near the same level.
I had a feeling that this may arise. Both of our loose heads looking elsewhere. Healy for a much deserved retirement and Jack cos he's still trying to recover form.
Would there be any logic to switching Porter back to lh?
But then, we're not deep at th?
Leo must me bulling inside. Trying to keep guys on the pitch and introducing young players and keep everyone happy.
He must feel like a puppet master.
I think the next few years are crucial for Leinster. The hub of last years side are older. Close to retirement and losing quality international players most likely would mean we'd not win or contend for silverware.
Players that are on the cusp of retirement:
Cronin, maybe 2 years left.
Kearney, a year or so left
Toner. 2 or 3 years left
Sexton, 2 years ...maybe
Fardy, 1 year
Ferg, most likely not resigned.
Tomane, not doing well. Form and injury
All in all, last years team will be scattered around the provinces and Europe.
But, fair play to Jack if he does leave. I wish him the best.

I think they really like Porter at TH and won't move him back, if anything I think a likely candidate to make a switch to LH is Jack Aungier, with Vakh, Porter, Furlong and Bent ahead of him in the pecking order it makes sense for him to move to the loose. I wouldn't be shocked if Leinster did bring in a loosehead from abroad.

Leinster have enough young talent mixed with Irish internationals both young and older to keep pushing on for trophies. Furlong, Porter,Ryan, Leavy, Van Der Flier, Conan, Ruddock, McGrath, JGP, Sexton, Ross Byrne, Lowe, Adam Byrne, Ringrose, Henshaw and Larmour. I haven't even mentioned Vakh, Kelleher, Baird, Dowling, Dunne, Penny, Doris, Deegan, Patterson, Murphy, Frawley, both O'Briens, Daly, Tomane, Connors, Moloney, Mick Kearney, Dave Kearney, Dave Kearney or Hugh O'Sullivan.

That is a serious amount of depth and players capable of filling in for an experienced heads leaving. Leinster and the IRFU have constantly pushed through younger players to the first team to give them opportunities and that has reaped dividends.

Leinster have never been afraid to spend money when they feel they are weak in a certain area, they will spend if necessary to fill a need.

Leinster are going to be just fine, I'm fairly sure they knew players were going to leave after the world cup and have planned accordingly.

guapos

I know we used to regularly pick off Connachts best players and Munsters hand me downs but who have Leinster signed from the other provinces in the last 3 years?

Bazzo

stephen_n wrote: »

Yes Henshaw was developed by Connacht as was Cronin. How many of the current Connacht squad were developed in Leinster? Leinster have the best academy and probably the biggest pipeline, stands to reason we are going to lose the most players. But over the last 12 months we will have lost Murphy, Carberry and now possibly McGrath to other provinces. That’s 3 possible starters in less than a year. Not easy for any set of fans to swallow.

Cronin and Henshaw aren't really the same. Henshaw never played outside of the Connacht system until he moved to Leinster, from his very youngest he was a product of the Connacht rugby system. Cronin came through the Munster system and moved to Connacht as an adult.

The Lost Sheep

Dubinusa wrote: »

This would leave Leinster wounded imo.
Dooley and Byrne would most likely never attain the heights Jack has!
We're discussing a Lion here, a 50+ international capped player.
The knock on affect for Leinster, puts them in a position where an area of strength becomes weaker.
Milne is the only lh in the academy! He's just 20 and no one knows if he's a good prospect. Besides. If he is, he's years away from making an impact.
If Healy leaves and Jack leaves, we'll have to import a lh imo.
Byrne and Dooley whilst good players are not near the same level.
I had a feeling that this may arise. Both of our loose heads looking elsewhere. Healy for a much deserved retirement and Jack cos he's still trying to recover form.
Would there be any logic to switching Porter back to lh?
But then, we're not deep at th?

There isnt any real logic in switching Porter back. Yes Dooley/Byrne may not get Lions/50 caps but its still not a huge knock on effect when both are very good pros who would be playing 1st xv every week if playing elsewhere. Yes an area of strength gets weaker but were not talking about going to a very weak place and lack of players now are we?

Leo must me bulling inside. Trying to keep guys on the pitch and introducing young players and keep everyone happy.
He must feel like a puppet master.
I think the next few years are crucial for Leinster. The hub of last years side are older. Close to retirement and losing quality international players most likely would mean we'd not win or contend for silverware.

I dont see that Leo would be "bulling". He knows the issues at hand. He left himself for a different challenge and was top quality.

Players that are on the cusp of retirement:
Cronin, maybe 2 years left.
Kearney, a year or so left
Toner. 2 or 3 years left
Sexton, 2 years ...maybe
Fardy, 1 year
Ferg, most likely not resigned.
Tomane, not doing well. Form and injury
All in all, last years team will be scattered around the provinces and Europe.
But, fair play to Jack if he does leave. I wish him the best.

And it isnt all in all last years team scattered across other provinces.

Bazzo

Deleted User wrote: »

Not taking anything away from Henshaw, it was a big move but It was player led and this appears to have a bit more IRFU push behind it.

Come on now, you can't take media reports that Henshaw's move was player led at face value and then not take media reports that this one is... from the article:

McGrath is understood to have initiated the move

Bazzo

Bazzo wrote: »

Come on now, you can't take media reports that Henshaw's move was player led at face value and then not take media reports that this one is... from the article:

I hadn't read much of anything about it but thanks for letting me know.

Shefwedfan

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Don’t see why McGrath wouldn’t want to go to Ulster.

Fair play to him. Great player and would be great for Ulster. At the same time, plenty of potential replacements around the province.

What is his chances of winning a trophy at Ulster? all joking apart.....