Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread X: [****]

Clegg

You only think that coz he's such a good PR man.

salmocab

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Leo Cullen. The man who has assembled and developed one of the most effective group of forwards the country has ever produced and won both premier rugby tournaments in the Northern Hemisphere in the one season.

Is a failure.

Not as a PR man apparently

Former Former

He's not the problem, the rest of you are.

irishbucsfan

Former Former wrote: »

He's not the problem, the rest of you are.

Yep. He’s actually done an exceedingly good job at achieving exactly what he wants, while his detractors are really just clueless when it comes to understanding his approach and philosophy.

troyzer

It's hard to really overstate how brilliant a coach Cullen is. It's not always about being right or being the best, it's about building a team that can win on the pitch and off the pitch. Cullen has absolutely no ego and knew he needed help. How someone can spin that into him being a PR man is insane. It's what every coach should strive to be like.

Lancaster. I can't believe he's re-signing. He could have taken pretty much any job he wanted in the northern hemisphere but he actually meant everything he said about loving the culture in Leinster and feeling like he was finally wanted. Ultimate class act.

We're really lucky to have the pair of them.

Neil3030

Great news about Leocaster. Nice to know that there'll be stability beyond the RWC when a few older heads may be leaving/retiring.

leakyboots

Retaining Lancaster is a massive boon for Leinster, was wondering would he move back but he seems settled here.

Dubinusa

I don't see where Tomane fits in. It's not like he was lights out when he was healthy.
He may get a run out against Edinburgh, to see where he's at.
I think Adam Byrne is locked in at 14. Obviously, RK will play if fit.
Tomane may get the 11 shirt, but I think Larmour will get it, or even Daly. Lowe misses out for kolpak.
Ulster look like they're going to be missing Henderson!
Massive loss if true.
For the run in, I think Leo has probably got his team sheets ready and barring injuries, I think we'll see the same 25 to 27 lads every week.
Just because Tomane is possibly an expensive signing, will not be a factor, imo.

Shefwedfan

leakyboots wrote: »

Retaining Lancaster is a massive boon for Leinster, was wondering would he move back but he seems settled here.

To be fair Leinster did give him a chance when not a single club in England would touch him

He is working in back ground and doing what he loves. No crappy press getting into his business and he gets paid well

The flight is short, so it does work for him as well. Take over as head couch in England and after a few losses the England thing would be fired out

It’s great for him to stay

Burkie1203

Shefwedfan wrote: »

To be fair Leinster did give him a chance when not a single club in England would touch him

He is working in back ground and doing what he loves. No crappy press getting into his business and he gets paid well

The flight is short, so it does work for him as well. Take over as head couch in England and after a few losses the England thing would be fired out

It’s great for him to stay

He did interview with Joe Molloy about 18 months ago saying his wife may move over once their two kids are in Uni. So he might not be flying over much more now

Podge_irl

I wouldn't assume this means he couldn't still leave Leinster for the Ireland set-up though.

troyzer

Podge_irl wrote: »

I wouldn't assume this means he couldn't still leave Leinster for the Ireland set-up though.

He's done it before and I imagine he'll be making a lot of apperances in Ireland mini-camps.

Podge_irl

troyzer wrote: »

He's done it before and I imagine he'll be making a lot of apperances in Ireland mini-camps.

I meant more on a permanent basis.

dub_skav

Apologies for long post, but it seems timely.

Delighted to have Leocaster sign on for 2 more years.

Leo was forced to step up when MOC left and it was probably too early for him to get the head gig.
He inherited a team low on confidence.
He also had to navigate a difficult squad management problem with the World Cup taking a lot of his players.

We all remember his first season as a disappointing one, and though losing the final was a low Leinster still topped the league.
The Heineken cup was a disappointment, but again there was a silver lining in Leo sending out the young guys and getting the win against Bath in a lost campaign.

Leo recognised that he needed help and sought input from many areas, including Lancaster.

Lancaster himself had taken a shambles of a team and turned them around into a competent team just in time for their home World Cup.
The whole Burgess shenanigans and a pool exit saw Lancaster cast aside and almost untouchable.

Cullen reached out and took a chance.
That the 2 of them have formed such a symbiotic relationship is a credit to both, we're lucky to have them.

Shefwedfan

Couple of thing people forget in Leo's first season.

He wasn't due to take over for another few season but the O'Connor got the sack and he had to take over earlier than expected.

Leinster was s**t the season before so we got a hard group in Europe. It was the WC that summer so he had none of the Irish internationals and plenty of players where around the Ireland squad as back up. Europe went after the first match and that was the first time the team played together.....

It was also a season when Sexton was introduced back into Leinster so a big change. Europe was poor but it was also the season he started to introduce the young players and try to blend into the squad after two years of those players getting blocked.

Even with all the change Leinster for to the Pro12 final. Which wasn't a bad result for a transition season?

As said above he realized he needed help and asked for it. First was Henry and then the big move was Lancaster. A move which nobody called and from all accounts it was Leo who went after him.

People say the first season was a disaster but in reality it wasn't a huge disaster.

durthacht

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

I think it's mostly down to Lancaster. Cullen was very conservative in his first year. I think Adam Byrne only got 3 starts that season, and that type of thing. Jordi Murphy parachuted back in for Europe even though van der Flier had been performing brilliantly in the League. Ringrose only given a start in Europe once they were already out. Who in their right mind thinks 12. Fitzgerald, 13 Te'o is a balanced centre partnership??

There's been a bit of luck along the way too. If Tomane hadn't got injured, Conor O'Brien would have been left holding tackle bags and twiddling his thumbs in the stands and we'd have had people giving it the old "if he's not good enough to get past Tomane, then he's not good enough for Leinster" line.

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

They're a good team. Cullen as pr manager. Lancaster as coach. Cullen's role is a bit like what Alistair Campbell did on the 2005 Lions Tour.

Cullen had a disappointing campaign as coach four years ago followed by success. He's clearly a terrible coach.

Lancaster had a disappointing campaign as coach four years ago followed by success. He's clearly a brilliant coach.

Terrific argument.

Clegg

Leinster have just two weeks to get their test players reoriented to their gameplan. I'm quite worried about Sexton's form at the minute. Same with SoB. He's looking very slow around the park. We need Leavy and VdF to regain fitness quickly. If they're fit akong with Ruddock then SoB probably doesn't make the 23.


The likes of Ringrose and Ryan had great tournaments so I reckon they'll hit the ground running.

Shefwedfan

Clegg wrote: »

Leinster have just two weeks to get their test players reoriented to their gameplan. I'm quite worried about Sexton's form at the minute. Same with SoB. He's looking very slow around the park. We need Leavy and VdF to regain fitness quickly. If they're fit akong with Ruddock then SoB probably doesn't make the 23.


The likes of Ringrose and Ryan had great tournaments so I reckon they'll hit the ground running.

Stick Sexton with McGrath or JGP and fast ball and see what he can do....


It would have been interesting if any of the 6N games if they started Marmion/Cooney with Sexton


In the French game when slow ball from Murray wasn't an issue you could see what Sexton could do.


I have very little concern over him unless he was carrying a knock, his kicking today was woeful. Like every kickoff was dribbling along the ground or going dead....is he carrying something?



SOB is a huge concern, at the moment for me if VDF and Leavy are fit he is not on plane to WC....now again the team was misfiring and maybe he would have been better to drop out of Ireland squad and play for Leinster a few times.....will be interesting but at this rate with Leavy back he doesn't start v Ulster

Squidgy Black

I think Jack Conan did quite well out of this 6 Nations campaign. The fact that when he came on from the bench they shifted Stander to 6 is interesting too, considering Conan's played some of his best performances with Leinster have been at 6.

I'm not sure if he'll make it on the plane for Japan, but I think he's planted himself ahead of Murphy in the rankings, and possibly Ruddock.

Synode

Squidgy Black wrote: »

I think Jack Conan did quite well out of this 6 Nations campaign. The fact that when he came on from the bench they shifted Stander to 6 is interesting too, considering Conan's played some of his best performances with Leinster have been at 6.

I'm not sure if he'll make it on the plane for Japan, but I think he's planted himself ahead of Murphy in the rankings, and possibly Ruddock.

Some of Conan's best performances for Leinster at 6? When?

Squidgy Black

Synode wrote: »

Some of Conan's best performances for Leinster at 6? When?

Hat trick and MOTM against Montpellier in 2017, couple other massive performances that year too.

Richie_Rich89

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Couple of thing people forget in Leo's first season.

He wasn't due to take over for another few season but the O'Connor got the sack and he had to take over earlier than expected.

Leinster was s**t the season before so we got a hard group in Europe. It was the WC that summer so he had none of the Irish internationals and plenty of players where around the Ireland squad as back up. Europe went after the first match and that was the first time the team played together.....

It was also a season when Sexton was introduced back into Leinster so a big change. Europe was poor but it was also the season he started to introduce the young players and try to blend into the squad after two years of those players getting blocked.

Even with all the change Leinster for to the Pro12 final. Which wasn't a bad result for a transition season?

As said above he realized he needed help and asked for it. First was Henry and then the big move was Lancaster. A move which nobody called and from all accounts it was Leo who went after him.

People say the first season was a disaster but in reality it wasn't a huge disaster.

I think it's a bit of a myth that the pool was very tough that year. If you place so much emphasis on seedings, then how do you explain the fact that the bottom seeded team in the pool finished top? There was one very good team in the shape of Wasps (made semis), an over-the-hill Toulon team who shipped a bonus point loss to Wasps in England and then got knocked out in the quarters and a Mickey Mouse team in the form of Bath. The reality is that Leinster were inept in Europe that year. If MOC was in charge and Leinster won one from six and finished bottom he'd have got an absolute kicking.

The league wasn't strong that year. Munster had reached their nadir under Foley and had to scramble to make Euro qualifacation. The Scarlets hadn't yet come good under Pivac. Glasgow were good, but Connacht took them out of the equation.

Leinster were completely outclassed by a team with far fewer internationals in the Pro 12 Final, and, in the harder proving ground of European competition, were brutally exposed. How anyone can see that season as anything other than a disaster is beyond me.

Burkie1203

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

Leinster were completely outclassed by a team with far fewer internationals in the Pro 12 Final, and, in the harder proving ground of European competition, were brutally exposed. How anyone can see that season as anything other than a disaster is beyond me.

Leinster had no pre season together. None. That is huge. They started Europe a few weeks after the RWC having minimal time together. It was a bad season but that's sport.

Shefwedfan

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

I think it's a bit of a myth that the pool was very tough that year. If you place so much emphasis on seedings, then how do you explain the fact that the bottom seeded team in the pool finished top? There was one very good team in the shape of Wasps (made semis), an over-the-hill Toulon team who shipped a bonus point loss to Wasps in England and then got knocked out in the quarters and a Mickey Mouse team in the form of Bath. The reality is that Leinster were inept in Europe that year. If MOC was in charge and Leinster won one from six and finished bottom he'd have got an absolute kicking.

The league wasn't strong that year. Munster had reached their nadir under Foley and had to scramble to make Euro qualifacation. The Scarlets hadn't yet come good under Pivac. Glasgow were good, but Connacht took them out of the equation.

Leinster were completely outclassed by a team with far fewer internationals in the Pro 12 Final, and, in the harder proving ground of European competition, were brutally exposed. How anyone can see that season as anything other than a disaster is beyond me.

Seedings, wasn't that the season when they changed the heineken cup. So Leinster got bottom seeds because they had such a s**t season in the Pro14.....maybe I am wrong but I am fairly sure I am right


Bath had got to the playoffs the season before. Both Bath and Wasps had got players back early because England had crashed out. Huge advantage


Toulon had come top of the Top 14 the year before and won the competition....Wasps had a great squad that season


So how are Toulon over the hill in the space of 5 months? :rolleyes:

AbusesToilets

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Stick Sexton with McGrath or JGP and fast ball and see what he can do....


It would have been interesting if any of the 6N games if they started Marmion/Cooney with Sexton


In the French game when slow ball from Murray wasn't an issue you could see what Sexton could do.


I have very little concern over him unless he was carrying a knock, his kicking today was woeful. Like every kickoff was dribbling along the ground or going dead....is he carrying something?



SOB is a huge concern, at the moment for me if VDF and Leavy are fit he is not on plane to WC....now again the team was misfiring and maybe he would have been better to drop out of Ireland squad and play for Leinster a few times.....will be interesting but at this rate with Leavy back he doesn't start v Ulster

I'd be shocked if SOB makes an appearance in a big game, except out of injury enforced necessity. If Leavy and VdF are out, I hope management will promote the young lads, there's enough talent there, playing well at the moment.

antietam1

Shane Jennings was saying the Irish players would be fine as soon as they got back into their club Jerseys.
Not so sure, I suppose the provinces are not as limited as Ireland in the game plan dept.

troyzer

antietam1 wrote: »

Shane Jennings was saying the Irish players would be fine as soon as they got back into their club Jerseys.
Not so sure, I suppose the provinces are not as limited as Ireland in the game plan dept.

Well at least we won't have long to wait.

If the provinces go well, we'll know the problem is Joe. If they don't, then we have a real crisis on our hands because all of this talk about "good players don't become bad players overnight" will be shown to be absolute ****e.

joseywhales

I would expect them to perform particularly since they will have more time on the ball, less pressure than test rugby. Might be really good for them to get some confidence back.

Buer

antietam1 wrote: »

Shane Jennings was saying the Irish players would be fine as soon as they got back into their club Jerseys.
Not so sure, I suppose the provinces are not as limited as Ireland in the game plan dept.

Look at the 2012 6N. We were poor, won only two games and were thumped in Twickenham on the final day. Leinster were back there lifting the HEC trophy 2 months later.

AbusesToilets

Leinster, for whatever reason, play a far better style of rugby than the national team. The have similarities in their structure, but they much better in attack and utilising space.