Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread X: [****]

arsebiscuits1

Also:

Does SOB start in the Leinster pack against Ulster?

He's played more rugby than Leavy and Ruddock, but really hasn't been at his best.

For me all going well it's gotta be Ruddock, Conan, Leavy with SOB at 20

Interested Observer

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

Also:

Does SOB start in the Leinster pack against Ulster?

He's played more rugby than Leavy and Ruddock, but really hasn't been at his best.

For me all going well it's gotta be Ruddock, Conan, Leavy with SOB at 20

He should not imo. He might get picked based on Leavy not playing much, but if Leavy shows basically anything this weekend he should be in.

AbusesToilets

Does he warrant a spot over Deegan/Doris?

troyzer

I don't see how SOB gets in now with everyone healthy. He's not good enough for the European team and we have a golden opportunity to give loads of minutes to future stars like Penny without the pressure of needing to win. This a great chance for them to get proper minutes against teams who have something to play for.

It wouldn't make sense to play SOB in that case. Especially if Joe has no world cup plans for him.

troyzer

I don't see how SOB gets in now with everyone healthy. He's not good enough for the European team and we have a golden opportunity to give loads of minutes to future stars like Penny without the pressure of needing to win. This a great chance for them to get proper minutes against teams who have something to play for.

It wouldn't make sense to play SOB in that case. Especially if Joe has no world cup plans for him.

Interested Observer

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Does he warrant a spot over Deegan/Doris?

I'd say that might be a bridge too far but I'd have no issue if he's left out.

I'm astonished with the severity of SOB's fall from grace. His ability (or desire) to hit the ground running appears to have departed him completely and I'm not sure whether he gets into the Leinster team at the moment. He was kept in Ireland camp and I presume he was performing in training so I'd like to see him get a run for Leinster as something in general was off with a lot of the Irish players.

But if he doesn't hit the ground running then I think he should be used sparingly if at all. He won't be here next season and there is no return on investment for game minutes given to him at this point. Ireland / Leinster have paid a fortune for him to sit in the physio room the last few seasons so the cost is sunk at this point anyway. My one and only hesitation is that I thought POM had a fairly poor tournament overall and Stander wasn't at his best so if it turns out to be an Ireland not Leinster issue then fair enough.

Hopefully Sexton's form with Leinster doesn't reflect his Ireland form either. He won't get a chance between now and the Ulster game to excise any demons so he needs to show up on the day. His dynamic with Murray requires both to be on form and accurate and neither delivered. Murray in my opinion needs to step back from competition until he can pass effectively again, Sexton just needs to find a rhythm and cool his jets with the frustration levels until he starts playing better himself. He was lucky not to be carded on Saturday.

Hopefully Leinster or one of the provinces can fly the flag in Europe to give us something to cheer about this season!

Clegg

SoB looked decent coming off the bench against Wasps and England. So there could be role for him as an impact sub playing against tiring opposition. As he is currently he's not having much impact as a starter. He doesn't seem to have that physical edge that made him one of the best players in the world.

Beyond that I don't see any room for SoB in the team. A fit Leavy or VdF offer so much more athletically than him. Leavy with his carrying and impact at the breakdown. And VdF with his speed off the line. Both far greater than SoB.

Dubinusa

I reckon Deegan and Leavy will get the nod this week.
If Leavy goes well for 50 minutes, he will probably start v Ulster.
Hopefully, Jack McGrath finds his mojo for the run in.
I doubt we'll send a weakened side this week! I think we'll be looking for some momentum to go forward into the qf.
Should see Ruddock this week too! I think a win away in Edinburgh would be a massive boost for the qf.

arsebiscuits1

My squad for this Friday.

McGrath Cronin Bent
Molony Fardy
Ruddock Deegan Leavy
McGrath Byrne
COB ROL
Lowe Dave Tomane
Byrne Tracy Vakh Kearney Doris HOS Reid Byrne

I don't think we will get the bench players back from last weekend (Larmour/ Porter)

I'm working under the assumption they want Tomane and Lowe to get some minutes on the pitch coming into this part of the season.

But I think Adam Byrne or Barry Daly are deserving of starting slots against Ulster

Shefwedfan

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm astonished with the severity of SOB's fall from grace. His ability (or desire) to hit the ground running appears to have departed him completely and I'm not sure whether he gets into the Leinster team at the moment. He was kept in Ireland camp and I presume he was performing in training so I'd like to see him get a run for Leinster as something in general was off with a lot of the Irish players.

But if he doesn't hit the ground running then I think he should be used sparingly if at all. He won't be here next season and there is no return on investment for game minutes given to him at this point. Ireland / Leinster have paid a fortune for him to sit in the physio room the last few seasons so the cost is sunk at this point anyway. My one and only hesitation is that I thought POM had a fairly poor tournament overall and Stander wasn't at his best so if it turns out to be an Ireland not Leinster issue then fair enough.

SOB is 32, it was over 2 years ago when he returned from a long injury and hit the ground running...


In realiy those two year are a long time and he hasn't played much rugby. In hintsight I think it would have been better for SOB if he returned to Leinster and played in the Pro14 with maybe a run out for the Italy match.



The problem was after the England game it was noted that the team was very very quiet, BOD mentioned about SOB is a great talker and that is what they needed, so maybe Joe pushed him back to get that person talking on the field, it didnt work out but such is life

Squidgy Black

SOB is a bit of a strange one. From Cullen/Lancaster's point of view, if Leavy/VdF remain fit for the rest of the season, alongside Penny and Deegan, there's no point in giving him further game time as he's gone at the end of the season and we've quality options there who are in decent form compared to a 32 year old who's perpetually injured.

But we don't necessarily know what Joe's thoughts are in terms of the RWC and if SOB is still a viable option to get fit and in form again. I think this is one of the scenarios where the IRFU could be pull hierarchy to get him game time. Potentially.

Shefwedfan

Squidgy Black wrote: »

SOB is a bit of a strange one. From Cullen/Lancaster's point of view, if Leavy/VdF remain fit for the rest of the season, alongside Penny and Deegan, there's no point in giving him further game time as he's gone at the end of the season and we've quality options there who are in decent form compared to a 32 year old who's perpetually injured.

But we don't necessarily know what Joe's thoughts are in terms of the RWC and if SOB is still a viable option to get fit and in form again. I think this is one of the scenarios where the IRFU could be pull hierarchy to get him game time. Potentially.

Penny will get his chance next season. At the end of the day Leinster has to provide players to national side and Ireland will want SOB fit and ready for WC. He will be played but I think it would be better to give him a few Pro14 games first and ease him back in. I don't see the point in throwing him head first into a game against Nordi in the Aviva

errlloyd

15. Ciarán Frawley (10)
14. Fergus McFadden (175)
13. Noel Reid (117)
12. Joe Tomane (9)
11. Barry Daly (33)
10. Ross Byrne (65)
9. Luke McGrath (106)
1. Ed Byrne (38)
2. Seán Cronin (166)
3. Michael Bent (118)
4. Josh Murphy (18)
5. Mick Kearney (48)
6. Rhys Ruddock (156) CAPTAIN
7. Dan Leavy (61)
8. Max Deegan (38)

16. Bryan Byrne (37)
17. Jack McGrath (141)
18. Andrew Porter (48)
19. Jack Dunne (2)
20. Oisín Dowling (2)
21. Nick McCarthy (32)
22. Jimmy O’Brien (5)
23. Conor O’Brien (15)

Weird to see no quota players at all. Are we giving Daly and McFadden a chance to compete for a slot on the wing? Tomane looks to be given a chance to prove he should be centre. Anything else? Ruddock and Cronin the only members of the pack starting next week?

Clegg

It's fantastic to see McFadden, Tomane, Leavy and Luke McGrath back from injury. I really like the look of that backrow. Deegan might have a change to get the 20 jersey for next week if he plays well tomorrow. Front row is fine, but the second row could be a weakness.

We've already topped the pool so this selection is about getting all returning players match fitness. If Henshaw is unavailable for next week. I wonder if we're keeping CoB in reserve. Still probably going to be RoL at 12 but you never know.

Clegg

Edinburgh have named a very strong side. The pack especially could do damage. John Barclay returning from injury too.

Schoeman
Ford
Nel
McKenzie
Toolis
Barclay
Watson
Mata

Pyrgos
Van Der Walt
Ben Der Merwe
Scott
Johnstone
Graham
Fife

Squidgy Black

errlloyd wrote: »

15. Ciarán Frawley (10)
14. Fergus McFadden (175)
13. Noel Reid (117)
12. Joe Tomane (9)
11. Barry Daly (33)
10. Ross Byrne (65)
9. Luke McGrath (106)
1. Ed Byrne (38)
2. Seán Cronin (166)
3. Michael Bent (118)
4. Josh Murphy (18)
5. Mick Kearney (48)
6. Rhys Ruddock (156) CAPTAIN
7. Dan Leavy (61)
8. Max Deegan (38)

16. Bryan Byrne (37)
17. Jack McGrath (141)
18. Andrew Porter (48)
19. Jack Dunne (2)
20. Oisín Dowling (2)
21. Nick McCarthy (32)
22. Jimmy O’Brien (5)
23. Conor O’Brien (15)

Weird to see no quota players at all. Are we giving Daly and McFadden a chance to compete for a slot on the wing? Tomane looks to be given a chance to prove he should be centre. Anything else? Ruddock and Cronin the only members of the pack starting next week?

Take Tomane out of that lineup and Richie would be absolutely creaming himself at the thought of no foreigners.

stephen_n

Would have expected Lowe to start this week, as I assume he won’t make the 23 for Ulster.

salmocab

stephen_n wrote: »

Would have expected Lowe to start this week, as I assume he won’t make the 23 for Ulster.

Seems odd alright, I’d be starting to worry he’ll be getting a pain with lack of game time.

Richie_Rich89

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Take Tomane out of that lineup and Richie would be absolutely creaming himself at the thought of no foreigners.

Cronin and Bent are in there? Although I don't really mind Bent actually, since Leinster had to put quite a lot of groundwork into developing him as a tighthead themselves. I think he'd only played loosehead 5 times at Super Rugby level when Leinster signed him.


It seems they're holding the majority of the first teamers in reserve in anticipation of the Ulster clash. Only those just back from injury (Leavy, Tomane, McGrath) are being given a run-out to sharpen up.


Looks as if Tomane's going to start at 12 rather than on the wing against Ulster, which would have to be a worry.

stephen_n

salmocab wrote: »

Seems odd alright, I’d be starting to worry he’ll be getting a pain with lack of game time.

Maybe a bit of a rest season might prolong his career. But he’s barely played at all since Thomond.

Eod100

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

Cronin and Bent are in there?

Does being from Limerick make someone ''foreign''?

Former Former

Bit of a mad team a week out from a European quarter-final.

Josh Murphy in the second row when Fardy is very short on game time? Lowe nowhere to be seen? Jack McGrath still on the bench, that's very worrying for him.

Richie_Rich89

Eod100 wrote: »

Does being from Limerick make someone ''foreign''?

Is Limerick in Leinster?

But anyway it's not about whether or not players are from Leinster. It's about whether or not they came through the Leinster system.

Bringing in the likes of Henshaw is kind of cheating in my eyes. I don't like to see the province with the most resources swooping in and cherrypicking top players from the province with the least resources when they've put in the groundwork to develop them. It's unfair on Connacht, and unfair on the Leinster prospects who could get to a good level if they were invested in as much as Connacht invested in Henshaw or Tom Farrell, or the Chiefs in James Lowe.

awec

Jack McGrath only on the bench. Reading between the lines, he is on his way out the door.

troyzer

awec wrote: »

Jack McGrath only on the bench. Reading between the lines, he is on his way out the door.

Ed Byrne was being picked ahead of him months ago. And deservedly so, Byrne is the better player. I'd be shocked if he wasn't brought into Ireland camp for Six Nations 2020.

sydthebeat

wow, leinster gone from +8 to +1 after teams announced.

Former Former

troyzer wrote: »

Ed Byrne was being picked ahead of him months ago. And deservedly so, Byrne is the better player. I'd be shocked if he wasn't brought into Ireland camp for Six Nations 2020.

Ah stop. Just stop.

McGrath is the second best loosehead Ireland have ever had, and has been locked in battle for five years with the best loosehead we've ever had, and he's been pretty close all that time. He's played at every level of the game, from the Pro14 to the World Cup and Lions tests and he's never been found wanting.

He's in a serious slump for whatever reason but Ed Byrne is not a quarter of the player.

There are goldfish with acquired brain injury that have longer memories than some people here.

troyzer

Former Former wrote: »

Ah stop. Just stop.

McGrath is the second best loosehead Ireland have ever had, and has been locked in battle for five years with the best loosehead we've ever had, and he's been pretty close all that time. He's played at every level of the game, from the Pro14 to the World Cup and Lions tests and he's never been found wanting.

He's in a serious slump for whatever reason but Ed Byrne is not a quarter of the player.

We'll agree to disagree then. I'd be picking Ed Byrne over him any day of the week. At least at the moment.

Former Former

troyzer wrote: »

We'll agree to disagree then. I'd be picking Ed Byrne over him any day of the week. At least at the moment.

Yeah, McGrath is in a slump. I'm not saying he should be picked regardless of form or fitness or whatever else is eating him.

But being in a slump does not make you a bad player. The last six years of being a test-quality prop don't go out the window. For me at least.