Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread X: [****]

Richie_Rich89

I'd feel a lot more confident going into this game if it was the O'Briens together in the centre. Plus, Tomane and Reid is a bit of a dead end pairing. Neither of them is going to be a big player for Leinster in the future in that position. Reid is understandable in a way if they're trying to convince him to stay by keeping him involved, and I suppose having the ability to cover outside centre is an extra string to his bow.

It's interesting that Tomane has been involved in every single game, competitive and pre-season warm up, that he's been available for except Munster in the Aviva. I wonder where Conor O'Brien would be now in his development if Cullen's vision had come to pass and Tomane hadn't got injured and had played nearly every game. O'Brien will have to take a back seat now for the rest of the season with Tomane back, which is rather a pity, as he's clearly the better 12.

It'll be interesting to see whether it's Frawley or Reid who gets the 22 jumper against Ulster if Sexton is out.

Squidgy Black

Has Reid played at 13 for us before? I would've expected him at 12 and Tomane at 13, considering he's played there before with Montpellier, and Reid inside Frawley as a second distributor would've made more sense.

Richie_Rich89

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Has Reid played at 13 for us before? I would've expected him at 12 and Tomane at 13, considering he's played there before with Montpellier, and Reid inside Frawley as a second distributor would've made more sense.

I seem to recall him starting there once or twice, and switching there during games a few times as well.

Not sure I'd like to see Tomane defending the outside centre channel. He's a good wing. Why he's being picked in the centre baffles me. Is there any evidence he can play centre better than any of Dave Kearney, Adam Byrne or Barry Daly, say?

Former Former

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Yet he's considering going to Ulster as he's not getting gametime. He's not half the player he once was. Class is permanent and all that but apparently not for McGrath for some time now.

For some time? Since January like??

Buer

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

It'll be interesting to see whether it's Frawley or Reid who gets the 22 jumper against Ulster if Sexton is out.

Almost certain to be Reid, I'd have thought.

stephen_n

Be a tough test for Frawley tonight, can’t see us getting clean ball with that Edinburgh back row. Don’t see our pack being dominant overall tonight, so we will get to see how well he goes under pressure.

Faugheen

Does anyone know if Byrne being pulled is injury related, or is there something up with Sexton?

EDIT: apparently he has a tight foot and is being pulled as a precaution.

Interested Observer

I'd love to know Bent's carry:knock-on ratio.

sydthebeat

Thanks Sean.. 11/1 first try scorer:)

Former Former

Former Former wrote: »

For some time? Since January like??

Why's he thinking of going to ulster then. Or was that made up by the media

Sangre

I think Tomane has a punt on Edinburgh. Has put in two of the softest try saving tackle attempts I’ve ever seen.

Leinster are being minced in the scrum. Can’t win With this scrum.

Clegg

Tomane hasn't been the problem today. Discipline has.been appalling. Played the third quarter of the game in our own 22.

Clegg

Leinster's lack of discipline is a bit concerning. Whitehouse bottled a red and a further yellow for Edinburgh, but ultimately you can't win if you keep handing back possession to the opposition.

I was very impressed with Max Deegan's performance. A few lineout steals and a nice turnover pen. He should get the 20 jersey over SoB for the Ulster game. Leavy had a good first half too and was wrongly binned for a perfectly legal turnover.

We were quite decent in that first half. Defended well and had some very nice multi phase attacks. But our own decision making put us under pressure and we went in behind. The second half was just an implosion however. Must improve.

sydthebeat

It's official.... Richie is really luke Fitz !!!

Bazzo

sydthebeat wrote: »

It's official.... Richie is really luke Fitz !!!

Don't really think that's fair at all. Richie is much more balanced and fair than Fitzgerald.

kuang1

Only watching the highlights on TG4 so haven't seen the whole match. And not sure of TG4 are editing selectively, but 2 things stood out to a neutral like myself:
Whitehouse was v quick to award the penalty try, and Leavy's yellow was an absolute Farce.

Also Tomane is an absolutely woeful defender.

Squidgy Black

kuang1 wrote: »

Only watching the highlights on TG4 so haven't seen the whole match. And not sure of TG4 are editing selectively, but 2 things stood out to a neutral like myself:
Whitehouse was v quick to award the penalty try, and Leavy's yellow was an absolute Farce.

Also Tomane is an absolutely woeful defender.

Yes on the first two, no on the last. Compared to his previous outings, Tomane actually made some really strong tackles and held his line well, apart from a couple of blunders. You have to remember this is also his first game back since November, and he only has 9 caps with Leinster before then.

tmc1963

kuang1 wrote: »

Only watching the highlights on TG4 so haven't seen the whole match. And not sure of TG4 are editing selectively, but 2 things stood out to a neutral like myself:
Whitehouse was v quick to award the penalty try, and Leavy's yellow was an absolute Farce.

Also Tomane is an absolutely woeful defender.

Whitehouse was indeed quick to award the PT but he was absolutely correct so good on him.

kuang1

tmc1963 wrote: »

Whitehouse was indeed quick to award the PT but he was absolutely correct so good on him.

Yeah maybe you've a good point there. Just because it's seldom seen (more often a penalty or 2 awarded first) doesn't mean that it's the wrong call.

kuang1

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Yes on the first two, no on the last. Compared to his previous outings, Tomane actually made some really strong tackles and held his line well, apart from a couple of blunders. You have to remember this is also his first game back since November, and he only has 9 caps with Leinster before then.

I just felt he offered very little resistance (for a man of his size) in contact. Edinburgh consistently got over the gain line when he was the tackler.
I definitely thought he should have done better for Edinburgh's last try, considering the mammoth defence that went into the lead up.

But match fitness inevitably an issue so a little bit of forgiveness afforded in that regard.

Buer

kuang1 wrote: »

I definitely thought he should have done better for Edinburgh's last try, considering the mammoth defence that went into the lead up.

A forward ran at him with another latched on. He was standing on the line and didn't manage to stop them dead. He appeared to try to get under them which was the right thing to do. There isn't a player on the field that would have stopped them.

Tomane needs to improve but he is held to a ridiculous level. He played in a completely disjointed back line last night on the back foot entirely yet has received more criticism than any other despite the pack being the clear reason Leinster were well beaten.

He is too loose in defence definitely but he isn't lacking for commitment or effort there at all. He missed tackles but he also made a rake of tackles, far more than any back on the field.

I'd be much more worried about Cronin than Tomane. Took his try well but looked to still be off colour. Luke McGrath isn't ready to start next week. Leavy will probably go straight back into the team though.

Disappointed for Reid. He'll possibly miss next week and was a possibility for a sub spot. One of the angles really showed a reckless approach from the Edinburgh player on that clear out. I would expect a citing.

molloyjh

kuang1 wrote: »

I just felt he offered very little resistance (for a man of his size) in contact. Edinburgh consistently got over the gain line when he was the tackler.

This just isn’t true. Tomane has some work to do to deserve his spot, but the crap getting spoiled about him is so completely OTT. Last night he made a number of dominant tackles against front five forwards, driving them back in contact. People are so happy to use the tries against him, cases where he shouldn’t have had to make the tackles, but utterly ignore any good work he did and in cases like this completely misrepresent what actually happened. With supporters like that....

Interested Observer

Some of the comments on Tomane are really poor imo, some people on here need to have a look at themselves.

stephen_n

molloyjh wrote: »

This just isn’t true. Tomane has some work to do to deserve his spot, but the crap getting spoiled about him is so completely OTT. Last night he made a number of dominant tackles against front five forwards, driving them back in contact. People are so happy to use the tries against him, cases where he shouldn’t have had to make the tackles, but utterly ignore any good work he did and in cases like this completely misrepresent what actually happened. With supporters like that....

Considering the player with the ball was 6’5” and 18.7 stone and the player on the latch was 6’6” and 18.7 stone. No player was going to stop him from there. Murphy got caught slightly out of position, too tight to the ruck and once Mata took a step outside him, there was no stopping that try. All the focus is on Tomane though. As it was for Nel’s try when Bent fell off the tackle.

Suspectman123

Buer wrote: »

A forward ran at him with another latched on. He was standing on the line and didn't manage to stop them dead. He appeared to try to get under them which was the right thing to do. There isn't a player on the field that would have stopped them.

Tomane needs to improve but he is held to a ridiculous level. He played in a completely disjointed back line last night on the back foot entirely yet has received more criticism than any other despite the pack being the clear reason Leinster were well beaten.

He is too loose in defence definitely but he isn't lacking for commitment or effort there at all. He missed tackles but he also made a rake of tackles, far more than any back on the field.

I'd be much more worried about Cronin than Tomane. Took his try well but looked to still be off colour. Luke McGrath isn't ready to start next week. Leavy will probably go straight back into the team though.

Disappointed for Reid. He'll possibly miss next week and was a possibility for a sub spot. One of the angles really showed a reckless approach from the Edinburgh player on that clear out. I would expect a citing.

Agree re: Tomane....bit all over the place is probably a nice way to put his tenure so far but I actually thought he fronted up well last night bar few more silly mental errors that are killing him

I didn’t think Cronin was poor like people are saying...made 12 tackles in 40 mins, couple of carry’s, took try well and hit lineout...one missed tackle on mata and a dubious penalty but didn’t think he was shocking, good to get minutes in blue and move on

Reid going off was huge for us
He’s the cog that gets that back line moving
Could see instantly we lost our shape and struggled

Suspectman123

stephen_n wrote: »

Considering the player with the ball was 6’5” and 18.7 stone and the player on the latch was 6’6” and 18.7 stone. No player was going to stop him from there. Murphy got caught slightly out of position, too tight to the ruck and once Mata took a step outside him, there was no stopping that try. All the focus is on Tomane though. As it was for Nel’s try when Bent fell off the tackle.

Totally agree, Bents miss was a real killer for me
Had done extremely well to keep them out, lads putting bodies on the line and then one guy just loses concentration and gets caught out, 7 points.....killer

Mebuntu

Leaving aside Leinster's decline after the first 20 mins I was shocked at the poor performance of the referee in this match. I expect poor reffing from officials in the Premier League. It's there for all to see week after week but the ref rarely gets the blame in rugby.

People can make up their own minds on what the ref was up to with all the penalties but the most serious incident for me was the tip tackle on Reid. It was the very one that would be used as an example in ref classes as to why a red card is available to wave. It was exactly to a tee what the rugby authorities/fans want out of the game. Reid was picked up by the legs and flung violently and carelessly (some would say maliciously) with intent to the ground to all intents and purposes head first. There was no attempt to cushion his fall. Even the home crowd gasped when they saw the replays on the screens and they expected the worst for their player. This was thuggery - no other word for it - and he got away with it. I don't know if refs are sanctioned or if the player can still be cited but it was a disgraceful moment that should not be just airbrushed out.

stephen_n

Mebuntu wrote: »

Leaving aside Leinster's decline after the first 20 mins I was shocked at the poor performance of the referee in this match. I expect poor reffing from officials in the Premier League. It's there for all to see week after week but the ref rarely gets the blame in rugby.

People can make up their own minds on what the ref was up to with all the penalties but the most serious incident for me was the tip tackle on Reid. It was the very one that would be used as an example in ref classes as to why a red card is available to wave. It was exactly to a tee what the rugby authorities/fans want out of the game. Reid was picked up by the legs and flung violently and carelessly (some would say maliciously) with intent to the ground to all intents and purposes head first. There was no attempt to cushion his fall. Even the home crowd gasped when they saw the replays on the screens and they expected the worst for their player. This was thuggery - no other word for it - and he got away with it. I don't know if refs are sanctioned or if the player can still be cited but it was a disgraceful moment that should not be just airbrushed out.

The penalties were down to poor discipline on our part. He was pretty consistent on his interpretation for both sides. The two things he got totally wrong though were the tip tackle which should have seen red and Leavy’s card. We didn’t lose because Whitehouse is a poor ref though. We lost because of our lack of discipline and unforced errors.

kuang1

molloyjh wrote: »

This just isn’t true. Tomane has some work to do to deserve his spot, but the crap getting spoiled about him is so completely OTT. Last night he made a number of dominant tackles against front five forwards, driving them back in contact. People are so happy to use the tries against him, cases where he shouldn’t have had to make the tackles, but utterly ignore any good work he did and in cases like this completely misrepresent what actually happened. With supporters like that....

A bit misdirected at me molloy as I'm a munster fan!
As I stated, only saw the highlights.
But I did mispeak: I should have said that based on the content in the highlights on TG4, Tomane is a woeful defender.

molloyjh

kuang1 wrote: »

A bit misdirected at me molloy as I'm a munster fan!
As I stated, only saw the highlights.
But I did mispeak: I should have said that based on the content in the highlights on TG4, Tomane is a woeful defender.

You’re all Leinster fans really, you just don’t know it yet. :pac: