Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread X: [****]

Clegg

Team for next week? I'm leaving out Henshaw coz.he hasn't played in ages and Reid because of his head knock.

Healy
Cronin
Furlong
Fardy
Ryan
Ruddock
Leavy
Conan

JGP
Sexton
Larmour
RoL
Ringrose
Byrne
Kearney

I'd rather CoB at 12. He has a tremendous upside. Has pace and is a very abrasive carrier. But RoL has more big game experience.

I wouldn't have SoB in the 23 either. He hasn't played well for Ireland recently while Deegan has done well across all positions in the backrow.

stephen_n

Team looks about right. Would like to see COB inside Ringrose, as there are question marks over his defence. Would be good seeing how he went with Ringrose there to help him out. Especially against someone like McLoskey. Think SOB will get the nod for the bench unless VDF is fit as ROC suggested yesterday.

troyzer

Michael Bent's wife has been posting on Facebook absolutely flaying Leinster fans who aren't happy with Tomane. Pretty strong stuff.

Squidgy Black

troyzer wrote: »

Michael Bent's wife has been posting on Facebook absolutely flaying Leinster fans who aren't happy with Tomane. Pretty strong stuff.

I mean, it's all fairly spot on, granted probably not the best method to voice it.

"I am beyond appalled that some of the Irish public are at it again, you treated my husband 8 years ago exactly the same as how you are treating Joe Tomane today, I didn’t say anything back then but enough is enough. This is a sickening display of bullying from grown adults. This man is a veteran player and also internationally capped, he deserves common decency for what he has contributed and the opportunity to settle in and play his best. He doesn’t need to give what could be his last few years of rugby to a team who’s fans would welcome him with such disrespect. I hoped you would have learnt from how you treated my husband, who to this day is still receiving hate after 8 years of loyal service and over 120 caps. This is why mental health issues are so present within rugby at all levels but especially the pro level. To boot my husband is an Irish citizen from birth and a large portion of you have treated him worse than dirt on your shoe, I dread to think what his Grandmother who was born and raised here would think. . . This will fall on deaf ears I’m sure and no change will be made. But just know your words effect more than you think."

Clegg

She's dead right tbh. Tomane isn't even in double digits for appearances yet and has already been written off. Posters last night we're trying to pin the blame on him for two Edinburgh trys despite the fact that the scores came from poor play elsewhere. It's his first game back after a 4 month injury layoff. He had a good first half and faded in the second. But he was certainly no worse than anyone else.

We're not quite at the level of Munster fans disgraceful treatment of Keatley, but we're heading in that direction.

troyzer

Clegg wrote: »

She's dead right tbh. Tomane isn't even in double digits for appearances yet and has already been written off. Posters last night we're trying to pin the blame on him for two Edinburgh trys despite the fact that the scores came from poor play elsewhere. It's his first game back after a 4 month injury layoff. He had a good first half and faded in the second. But he was certainly no worse than anyone else.

We're not quite at the level of Munster fans disgraceful treatment of Keatley, but we're heading in that direction.

I'm in two minds about this. He seems like such a decent lad and I think he probably just needs more time to get into the system. The injury can happen to anyone. He's had flashes and he's clearly in prime physical condition. He just looks like he lacks a bit of confidence and maybe struggles a bit without a Leinster system veteran outside him.

The flip side is that he's an international with pedigree and a salary to match. He's not a development prospect who you need to be patient with. You give him a few games to settle in and you expect him to perform. At no point this season, even prior to his injury, did he look anything close to international standard. I'd back him to get there but it might be a case of the injury doing him a bit of a favour because it didn't look like he was getting any better.

The flip side again is that Lowe wasn't great defensively for most of his first season and look where he is now.

Still, blaming him for not single handedly stopping a latch on the tryline is ****ing ridiculous. There are more than a few Richies out there with ulterior motives.

Exclamation Marc

He's played about 500 minutes over about ten games of rugby for Leinster yet he's already been written off in some quarters.

Pathetic from not just Leinster supporters but from general rugby fans.

Shefwedfan

Exclamation Marc wrote: »

He's played about 500 minutes over about ten games of rugby for Leinster yet he's already been written off in some quarters.

Pathetic from not just Leinster supporters but from general rugby fans.

He was written off by huge parts of the fan base after first game and none of them have changed their minds....


A lot of clowns in the supporter ranks these days

Cowboy848

I say it’s down to something which I call Rock boy racism. It starts in Rock when they favour junior school players who have played in their school and served for a longer time since junior school. It makes it more difficult for players who come into school after first year harder to make the team because they haven’t played from the age of 4 there. That’s all well and good when it’s kept in house but when the same thinking applies to foreigners and the incumbents are harping on about not being paid as much as the import it’s verged on racism.

The problem with bright sparks like Luke Fitzgerald and Awec who use this reasoning they don’t apply it consistently in their analysis. For example youths players like Sean O Brien and Tadgh Furlong could be viewed as blow ins also who haven’t been in the system and served as long as schools players. They certainly haven’t played to the high levels schools players do until their twenties. But they seem to go out of their way to push these players through the system and big them up. Do they consider them as blow ins also?

So when it comes to judging a foreign player they reason that that player should be at a disadvantage because it was never their dream growing up to become an Irish player or a Leinster player. But how do they know that this foreign player didn’t harbor feelings of wanting to play to a high level nonetheless? They don’t and therein lies the hypocrisy. It falls completely down to the fact that the player is foreign and most likely has different couloured skin to the rest of the “regulars”. It stinks to high heaven and it isn’t applied consistently across all classes of player. I just call them bigots and inbreeds with a chip on their shoulders.

Exclamation Marc

Cowboy848 wrote: »

I say it’s down to something which I call Rock boy racism. It starts in Rock when they favour junior school players who have played in their school and served for a longer time since junior school. It makes it more difficult for players who come into school after first year harder to make the team because they haven’t played from the age of 4 there. That’s all well and good when it’s kept in house but when the same thinking applies to foreigners and the incumbents are harping on about not being paid as much as the import it’s verged on racism.

The problem with bright sparks like Luke Fitzgerald and Awec who use this reasoning they don’t apply it consistently in their analysis. For example youths players like Sean O Brien and Tadgh Furlong could be viewed as blow ins also who haven’t been in the system and served as long as schools players. They certainly haven’t played to the high levels schools players do until their twenties. But they seem to go out of their way to push these players through the system and big them up. Do they consider them as blow ins also?

So when it comes to judging a foreign player they reason that that player should be at a disadvantage because it was never their dream growing up to become an Irish player or a Leinster player. But how do they know that this foreign player didn’t harbor feelings of wanting to play to a high level nonetheless? They don’t and therein lies the hypocrisy. It falls completely down to the fact that the player is foreign and most likely has different couloured skin to the rest of the “regulars”. It stinks to high heaven and it isn’t applied consistently across all classes of player. I just call them bigots and inbreeds with a chip on their shoulders.

I went to Blackrock College and I can attest to your theory being utterly full of shite.

Buer

I f*cking knew it was awec all along.

Exclamation Marc

Exclamation Marc wrote: »

I went to Blackrock College and I can attest to your theory being utterly full of shite.

INBREDDD!!!

Cowboy848 wrote: »

I say it’s down to something which I call Rock boy racism. It starts in Rock when they favour junior school players who have played in their school and served for a longer time since junior school. It makes it more difficult for players who come into school after first year harder to make the team because they haven’t played from the age of 4 there. That’s all well and good when it’s kept in house but when the same thinking applies to foreigners and the incumbents are harping on about not being paid as much as the import it’s verged on racism.

The problem with bright sparks like Luke Fitzgerald and Awec who use this reasoning they don’t apply it consistently in their analysis. For example youths players like Sean O Brien and Tadgh Furlong could be viewed as blow ins also who haven’t been in the system and served as long as schools players. They certainly haven’t played to the high levels schools players do until their twenties. But they seem to go out of their way to push these players through the system and big them up. Do they consider them as blow ins also?

So when it comes to judging a foreign player they reason that that player should be at a disadvantage because it was never their dream growing up to become an Irish player or a Leinster player. But how do they know that this foreign player didn’t harbor feelings of wanting to play to a high level nonetheless? They don’t and therein lies the hypocrisy. It falls completely down to the fact that the player is foreign and most likely has different couloured skin to the rest of the “regulars”. It stinks to high heaven and it isn’t applied consistently across all classes of player. I just call them bigots and inbreeds with a chip on their shoulders.

Absolutely mad as a bag of cats.

Shefwedfan

Cowboy848 wrote: »

I say it’s down to something which I call Rock boy racism. It starts in Rock when they favour junior school players who have played in their school and served for a longer time since junior school. It makes it more difficult for players who come into school after first year harder to make the team because they haven’t played from the age of 4 there. That’s all well and good when it’s kept in house but when the same thinking applies to foreigners and the incumbents are harping on about not being paid as much as the import it’s verged on racism.

The problem with bright sparks like Luke Fitzgerald and Awec who use this reasoning they don’t apply it consistently in their analysis. For example youths players like Sean O Brien and Tadgh Furlong could be viewed as blow ins also who haven’t been in the system and served as long as schools players. They certainly haven’t played to the high levels schools players do until their twenties. But they seem to go out of their way to push these players through the system and big them up. Do they consider them as blow ins also?

So when it comes to judging a foreign player they reason that that player should be at a disadvantage because it was never their dream growing up to become an Irish player or a Leinster player. But how do they know that this foreign player didn’t harbor feelings of wanting to play to a high level nonetheless? They don’t and therein lies the hypocrisy. It falls completely down to the fact that the player is foreign and most likely has different couloured skin to the rest of the “regulars”. It stinks to high heaven and it isn’t applied consistently across all classes of player. I just call them bigots and inbreeds with a chip on their shoulders.

This is a pile of cr*p......


I know a guy who hates Tomane and I doubt he never knows where Blackrock is.....why does he hate Tomane? no idea....seems like the "in" thing at the moment

As I always say, Isa was "sh*t" for a long time as well according to some idiots

Clegg

Who was the banned poster that always asked what school everyone went to?

Richie_Rich89

I hate seeing people gang up on Tomane like this, especially when he's at a low ebb. I'd just like to point out that my comments on this topic have been much more a criticism of Leo Cullen and his recruitment and selection policies than of the player himself. It's not Tomane's fault the coaches keep selecting him out of position. He's been a good to very good winger at Super Rugby level and he held his own at international level on the wing. I think he'd actually have been a good signing for Leinster if there had been a need on the left wing. If they didn't have Lowe and one or two of DK, McFadden, Daly and O'Loughlin then it could have been a good fit. If he got a run on the wing and found form he could be at a similar sort of level to Daly, McFadden, Byrne, Kearney and Larmour, and better in some aspects of play.

Cullen seems to have got off scott free in avoiding criticism on this issue, which is strange. I suppose that's his job, as head of pr.

Richie_Rich89

Cowboy848 wrote: »

I say it’s down to something which I call Rock boy racism. It starts in Rock when they favour junior school players who have played in their school and served for a longer time since junior school. It makes it more difficult for players who come into school after first year harder to make the team because they haven’t played from the age of 4 there. That’s all well and good when it’s kept in house but when the same thinking applies to foreigners and the incumbents are harping on about not being paid as much as the import it’s verged on racism.

The problem with bright sparks like Luke Fitzgerald and Awec who use this reasoning they don’t apply it consistently in their analysis. For example youths players like Sean O Brien and Tadgh Furlong could be viewed as blow ins also who haven’t been in the system and served as long as schools players. They certainly haven’t played to the high levels schools players do until their twenties. But they seem to go out of their way to push these players through the system and big them up. Do they consider them as blow ins also?

So when it comes to judging a foreign player they reason that that player should be at a disadvantage because it was never their dream growing up to become an Irish player or a Leinster player. But how do they know that this foreign player didn’t harbor feelings of wanting to play to a high level nonetheless? They don’t and therein lies the hypocrisy. It falls completely down to the fact that the player is foreign and most likely has different couloured skin to the rest of the “regulars”. It stinks to high heaven and it isn’t applied consistently across all classes of player. I just call them bigots and inbreeds with a chip on their shoulders.

Speaking for myself, my opposition to certain signings comes from a desire to see Leinster back their own players who could be as good as some of these mooted signings if they were afforded the same gametime opportunities to develop. I think teams should develop their own players, whether that's players who've come through the system or underappreciated players brought in from outside and brought up to a new level - like the Scarlets with Tadhg Beirne, or Connacht with Tom Farrell.

There's nothing admirable about poaching the likes of Henshaw, Cronin and Lowe from teams without the financial clout to hold on to them. That's what Toulon do. All it shows is that you've got a bigger chequebook.

That's not to say that there isn't a place for quality signings. For years Leinster were crying out for a signing of Lowe's calibre. When Fitzgerald was going through his injury issues, there was a real lack of quality alternatives. I just fouind it strange tbhat they went out and bought someone just when O'Loughlin was showing a huge amount of promise on the left wing. I think before you sign someone you should try and fail to develop alternatives from within. O'Loughlin was denied the chance to kick on when all the evidence suggested he had the quality to be a real star in the first team going forward.

Shefwedfan

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

I hate seeing people gang up on Tomane like this, especially when he's at a low ebb. I'd just like to point out that my comments on this topic have been much more a criticism of Leo Cullen and his recruitment and selection policies than of the player himself. It's not Tomane's fault the coaches keep selecting him out of position. He's been a good to very good winger at Super Rugby level and he held his own at international level on the wing. I think he'd actually have been a good signing for Leinster if there had been a need on the left wing. If they didn't have Lowe and one or two of DK, McFadden, Daly and O'Loughlin then it could have been a good fit. If he got a run on the wing and found form he could be at a similar sort of level to Daly, McFadden, Byrne, Kearney and Larmour, and better in some aspects of play.

Cullen seems to have got off scott free in avoiding criticism on this issue, which is strange. I suppose that's his job, as head of pr.

This is another pile of cr*p.....


Tomane played 13 for Montpellier. I would guess when he signed for Leinster part of the conversation was "well Leo you have XYZ on the wing, so I will play where exactly?"


He has a few months in a new country and with a new team and a completely different way to play....just when he looked to get some form he got an injury

Leinster plays how many games per season and how many players go away on international duty, Tomane big break should have been for the last few months but he was on the sidelines with injury.....

crisco10

Lest we forget Isa took awhile to settle in too.

Broke his arm and looked like a dead average 10.

Squidgy Black

He's dead right, Awec is a filthy ex Blackrock pupil, horrible southside private school accent on him.

Shefwedfan

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

Speaking for myself, my opposition to certain signings comes from a desire to see Leinster back their own players who could be as good as some of these mooted signings if they were afforded the same gametime opportunities to develop. I think teams should develop their own players, whether that's players who've come through the system or underappreciated players brought in from outside and brought up to a new level - like the Scarlets with Tadhg Beirne, or Connacht with Tom Farrell.

There's nothing admirable about poaching the likes of Henshaw, Cronin and Lowe from teams without the financial clout to hold on to them. That's what Toulon do. All it shows is that you've got a bigger chequebook.

That's not to say that there isn't a place for quality signings. For years Leinster were crying out for a signing of Lowe's calibre. When Fitzgerald was going through his injury issues, there was a real lack of quality alternatives. I just fouind it strange tbhat they went out and bought someone just when O'Loughlin was showing a huge amount of promise on the left wing. I think before you sign someone you should try and fail to develop alternatives from within. O'Loughlin was denied the chance to kick on when all the evidence suggested he had the quality to be a real star in the first team going forward.

One of the main reasons they bring inplayers is to passion knowledge from overseas, teach the young players new thing, give them a different perspective

This was always part of the signing, strengthen the tream but also improve the team....look at Toner before and after the NZ came for 6 months

Would drive been as good without isa around?

troyzer

Clegg wrote: »

Who was the banned poster that always asked what school everyone went to?

Heymans. He never did find out which school I went to.

Like and share if you cried.

Dubinusa

Problem is, Tomane is not as good as C.O.B or R.O.L imo.
I doubt he will be a quality center.
He's probably better on the wing. He should be rated above D.K and Ferg?
I would definitely start C.O.B ahead of Tomane next week.
I reckon R.O.L will get the nod. McCloskey will be a tough nut to stop and Henshaw will be missed.
Tomane should not be in the 23 next week.
Neither should S.O.B.

Burkie1203

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

Speaking for myself, my opposition to certain signings comes from a desire to see Leinster back their own players who could be as good as some of these mooted signings if they were afforded the same gametime opportunities to develop. I think teams should develop their own players, whether that's players who've come through the system or underappreciated players brought in from outside and brought up to a new level - like the Scarlets with Tadhg Beirne, or Connacht with Tom Farrell.

There's nothing admirable about poaching the likes of Henshaw, Cronin and Lowe from teams without the financial clout to hold on to them. That's what Toulon do. All it shows is that you've got a bigger chequebook.

That's not to say that there isn't a place for quality signings. For years Leinster were crying out for a signing of Lowe's calibre. When Fitzgerald was going through his injury issues, there was a real lack of quality alternatives. I just fouind it strange tbhat they went out and bought someone just when O'Loughlin was showing a huge amount of promise on the left wing. I think before you sign someone you should try and fail to develop alternatives from within. O'Loughlin was denied the chance to kick on when all the evidence suggested he had the quality to be a real star in the first team going forward.

Leinster don't have the luxury of failing to develop alternatives when they are trying to compete in Europe. Leinster do back their own players quite heavily. But you choose to ignore that to push your own agenda

ROLs development has not been stunted by any signing whatsoever. You can try and paint that picture all you like but that's complete and utter bullsh1t.

Tomane criticising is disgusting. When clowns like Luke Fitzgerald are allowed push this agenda on TV unchallenged it creates this idea that Tomane is crap and a terrible signing. He had a poor outing v Cardiff but had gradually shown signs of improvement.

If that was Henshaw last night every excuse possible would be made (long lay off, finding form, needs time etc). People actually stating Tomane can't tackle or was afraid to tackle when he made tackles than 24 other players who started the game and was left facing front rows with a 2nd row match on his line twice and it's all his fault.

thegreycity

I think the reaction to the reaction about Tomane is little a bit much. This is professional sport and criticism is allowed. Leinster fans are no different form any others in this regard. Though I entirely agree about Mrs Bent's points about mental health, and I think people go way too far and forget that comments made on the internet are not private discussion.

Tomane is in the unenviable position of not having a huge amount of leeway when it comes to his perfomances. He is not a young up and coming player whose mistakes are accepted as part of his development, nor is he an established player with credit in the bank that will soften the impact of an average performance.

It might not seem fair, but it is realistic for people to form an opinion on how Tomane has delivered so far based on expectation. And that's probably what my issue was, I was very excited for Tomane to join the team, I thought he was the perfect addition to help fill gaps in the first team from 11-14 and even push Henshaw for a starting center spot. Right now though he's not quite meeting those expectations and on form I wouldn't have him in the starting team.

But I very much believe and hope he can get better. A couple of good performances and I guarantee people will be changing their tune.

salmocab

Again with the Cullen head of PR I see. Utter nonsense from the most ridiculous poster here.

salmocab

Bent’s wife is right by the way, Bent was disliked from the start by many although personally I’d blame Kidney for bringing him from Dublin airport to Carton house. He hadn’t earned that but it certainly wasn’t his fault. In fact I think he did quite well there initially. He’s a good player and we are very lucky to have had him.
Tomane hasn’t been given a chance by a few and unfortunately for him it’s councided with the arrival as quality options of a few young players.

errlloyd

I think JGP got it too but never quite as bad as Tomane.

What is Bents wife reacting to? I figured he was getting some **** on here, but is it on twitter and the likes too or are pundits giving out?

stephen_n

errlloyd wrote: »

I think JGP got it too but never quite as bad as Tomane.

What is Bents wife reacting to? I figured he was getting some **** on here, but is it on twitter and the likes too or are pundits giving out?

Luke Fitzgerald maybe.

irishbucsfan

errlloyd wrote: »

I think JGP got it too but never quite as bad as Tomane.

What is Bents wife reacting to? I figured he was getting some **** on here, but is it on twitter and the likes too or are pundits giving out?

They don't care about places like this at all. It's a rugby forum, they just stay away. It's social media that's the problem.

For one small example, there'll be family members of players who don't really follow the team closely. So when you're following someone on the outskirts of the team, they'll check in once a week to see if that player is playing, and they'll just see replies on twitter giving out about the player etc. Most of the people complaining in those cases haven't the slightest clue what they're talking about but its still hard to read when its someone close to you, it becomes absolutely infuriating if it turns into direct replies to those players etc.

troyzer

irishbucsfan wrote: »

They don't care about places like this at all. It's a rugby forum, they just stay away. It's social media that's the problem.

For one small example, there'll be family members of players who don't really follow the team closely. So when you're following someone on the outskirts of the team, they'll check in once a week to see if that player is playing, and they'll just see replies on twitter giving out about the player etc. Most of the people complaining in those cases haven't the slightest clue what they're talking about but its still hard to read when its someone close to you, it becomes absolutely infuriating if it turns into direct replies to those players etc.

People forget that many of the players have a private social media presence. It's not like soccer where they effectively don't exist. I follow Jack Dunne on Twitter for example, mostly because of the absolutely bizarre gifs and memes that he likes. It's easy to see how himself or close family members would see the abuse and lose their ****.