Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread X: [****]

Richie_Rich89

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Sure Cullen is just a PR man. Surely it was Lancaster as senior coach who brought him in?

This seems to have been a contentious point I brought up. Cullen is chairman of a public relations company called Cullen Communications. Maybe that's news to some people?

There's a largish cohort of fans, typified by Gordon Darcy, who think that having the big name signings, the NIQ galacticos, is THE deciding factor in determining how the provinces perform. Not quality of coaching or anything else. Cullen, with his background in pr, was probably trying to play to this subset of fans. Signing an exotic Antipodean would make Leinster seem on an equal footing to the likes of Toulon, Cullen thought. It would grow the brand.

troyzer

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

This seems to have been a contentious point I brought up. Cullen is chairman of a public relations company called Cullen Communications. Maybe that's news to some people?

There's a largish cohort of fans, typified by Gordon Darcy, who think that having the big name signings, the NIQ galacticos, is THE deciding factor in determining how the provinces perform. Not quality of coaching or anything else. Cullen, with his background in pr, was probably trying to play to this subset of fans. Signing an exotic Antipodean would make Leinster seem on an equal footing to the likes of Toulon, Cullen thought. It would grow the brand.

It's the family business and he has no involvement in the day to day running. His brother runs it.

You come out with some amount of ****e.

salmocab

troyzer wrote: »

It's the family business and he has no involvement in the day to day running. His brother runs it.

You come out with some amount of ****e.

No apparently it’s his background he must have done it during those long spells between school and playing professional rugby and playing professional rugby and coaching.
This smells like someone knows something about Cullen and wants to jam it into the narrative.

Clegg

Cullen's been speaking about Henshaw's injury. He suffered more than just a dead leg and it doesn't sound like he'll be ready for Saturday.

“He’s back running at the moment and we’ll see how he comes through,” Cullen, speaking at Leinster HQ, said this afternoon.

“Whatever way the tear in the muscle was…the dead leg was initially what the cause of concern was but there was a little bit more damage a bit deeper in.

So it was a little bit unusual, probably, from initially the way it presented, obviously as a dead leg.
“He had a little minor procedure done but I couldn’t get into the technicalities of that.”

The Leinster head coach added: “He had to get a little bit of further investigation into what was going on there, because it was taking a little bit longer than we initially thought but he’s making good progress.”

https://www.the42.ie/robbie-henshaw-injury-update-4559643-Mar2019/

antietam1

Exclamation Marc wrote: »

What's obvious from some quarters is:

Foreigner struggles to find his feet at Leinster, get him out, he's holding down the young Irish players who we've barely seen and he should have adapted by now. Let's criticise him above and beyond what we'd say about an Irish player or is reasonable for anyone starting out somewhere.

Irish young player struggles, give him time, it takes time and games to adapt. It's a process to adjust, let's encourage him. Sure he's Irish like.

The xenophobia is clear as day.

Why bring a "foreigner" at all if you don't hold him to a much Higher standard than a fresh out of the academy kid who costs us little.

joseywhales

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

This seems to have been a contentious point I brought up. Cullen is chairman of a public relations company called Cullen Communications. Maybe that's news to some people?

There's a largish cohort of fans, typified by Gordon Darcy, who think that having the big name signings, the NIQ galacticos, is THE deciding factor in determining how the provinces perform. Not quality of coaching or anything else. Cullen, with his background in pr, was probably trying to play to this subset of fans. Signing an exotic Antipodean would make Leinster seem on an equal footing to the likes of Toulon, Cullen thought. It would grow the brand.

You may not be aware of this but Cullen is a former professional rugby player having captained leinster to a european cup, he is also HEAD COACH of the current european champions. With his background in RUGBY it is not surprising that that he plays such a key role in coaching leinster. I know many people might not have read about it but it's true.

crisco10

joseywhales wrote: »

You may not be aware of this but Cullen is a former professional rugby player having captained leinster to a 3 european cups, he is also HEAD COACH of the current european champions. With his background in RUGBY it is not surprising that that he plays such a key role in coaching leinster. I know many people might not have read about it but it's true.

Fixed that for you.

Dubinusa

Shefwedfan wrote: »

You stated he earned more than the home grown as you call them, that ain’t true is it? Many of Leinster players will earn more
So what if he left Aus because of money? What difference does it make?
Both Ringrose and Henshaw probably onsimilar if not more money to Tomane, which based on his experience is about right

“These imports” ? Some way to describe a player to be honest

What about all the young Irish player in England etc? They an exodus for the money?

Your going around in circles trying to prove a point which is incorrect....

Of course they are imports! They are foreign. Irish lads elsewhere are foreign and imports.
Isa was foreign. Fardy is foreign.
Fardy is performing and produced from day 1. Tomane has not.
Fardy is what most fans hoped Tomane would be.
I just watched a Irish lad play for the freejacks last night.
Of course he's foreign.
As far as salary issues. Tomane imo, is making more than the average Irish player. Not including international players. I don't know what his salary is. I do know that C.O.B is on peanuts.
Tomane has been a disappointment imo. Injury aside, he has not offered anything that we already had.
He may turn it around! He may be the next Isa.
But he is not right now and imo, he's not at the required level to pass R.O.L at center.
He is most likely suited to be on the wing.

Dubinusa

Exclamation Marc wrote: »

Most likely this, probably that, must be something else... the reality is that you have f*ck all evidence about salaries and are trying to build an argument about an assumption you've made, which let's not forget is in response to a mere 500 minutes of rugby.

Don't let any grounding in fact get in the way of a nice xenophobic narrative.

I'm not building an argument. I'm voicing an opinion!
You obviously don't like it! So what, I can form an opinion and call it as I see it.
Does anyone think that Fardy or Tomane are on average salaries?
I could care less tbh. Tomane right now is not good enough to play center. He was fairly poor before the injury too.
I'm not spewing vile insults or hate about him. I think he's mediocre at best! I think R.O.L is a better option.
That makes me what?
I also think Fardy is a better option that all our 2nd rows, except Ryan.

troyzer

Dubinusa wrote: »

Of course they are imports! They are foreign. Irish lads elsewhere are foreign and imports.
Isa was foreign. Fardy is foreign.
Fardy is performing and produced from day 1. Tomane has not.
Fardy is what most fans hoped Tomane would be.
I just watched a Irish lad play for the freejacks last night.
Of course he's foreign.
As far as salary issues. Tomane imo, is making more than the average Irish player. Not including international players. I don't know what his salary is. I do know that C.O.B is on peanuts.
Tomane has been a disappointment imo. Injury aside, he has not offered anything that we already had.
He may turn it around! He may be the next Isa.
But he is not right now and imo, he's not at the required level to pass R.O.L at center.
He is most likely suited to be on the wing.

Conor O'Brien is still in the academy. I'm not entirely sure what they make but I've heard it's around the €30k mark. I seriously doubt Tomane would have come to Leinster for that kind of money, he was probably making multiples of that in France and likely still is.

Bringing in Tomane wasn't a mistake. It was a great pick up given his form and experience. It's always great to bring a foreign player in. They can improve the culture and add fresh ideas. The issue here is that Tomane simply hasn't performed. He's not making as much money as Henshaw but he's not competing with him either. On current form, he shouldn't be started ahead of O'Brien who is on far less money.

There is an undercurrent of racism against Tomane on the webzones which is really depressing. But there is also a valid frustration out there. He is not an academy player. He's a seasoned international and injury aside, it's not acceptable for him to take an entire season to get a half decent performance out of him. Tomane had 9 games before his injury and an entire preseason. That should be more than enough for him to be performing at his best but he wasn't really getting any better. He was going from defensive liability to looking like a bang average Pro14 player. Which is not what he was brought in to be.

That all being said, he also deserves a shot at proving himself and I wish him every success. He chose to come to Leinster and said from the very beginning he wants a long future here. I hope he gets it and those who write him off have egg on their faces while hailing him as the reincarnation of Isa.

Dubinusa

troyzer wrote: »

Conor O'Brien is still in the academy. I'm not entirely sure what they make but I've heard it's around the €30k mark. I seriously doubt Tomane would have come to Leinster for that kind of money, he was probably making multiples of that in France and likely still is.

Bringing in Tomane wasn't a mistake. It was a great pick up given his form and experience. It's always great to bring a foreign player in. They can improve the culture and add fresh ideas. The issue here is that Tomane simply hasn't performed. He's not making as much money as Henshaw but he's not competing with him either. On current form, he shouldn't be started ahead of O'Brien who is on far less money.

There is an undercurrent of racism against Tomane on the webzones which is really depressing. But there is also a valid frustration out there. He is not an academy player. He's a seasoned international and injury aside, it's not acceptable for him to take an entire season to get a half decent performance out of him. Tomane had 9 games before his injury and an entire preseason. That should be more than enough for him to be performing at his best but he wasn't really getting any better. He was going from defensive liability to looking like a bang average Pro14 player. Which is not what he was brought in to be.

That all being said, he also deserves a shot at proving himself and I wish him every success. He chose to come to Leinster and said from the very beginning he wants a long future here. I hope he gets it and those who write him off have egg on their faces while hailing him as the reincarnation of Isa.

I'm not writing him off. I think he's below par at center.
We've better options.
Of course he deserves a shot. But, he needs to show something! He has been poor. Nobody can argue that!
On the flipside, Fardy has been outrageously good!
Delighted he was extended. He has produced.
I'm not hoping Tomane fails. I just think he's been a bad signing so far.
Based on experience and his reputation, he's been average. I hope he turns it around.

Richie_Rich89

I thought the basic academy deal was worth 8,000 euros. But maybe that's out of date or just for 1st year players or something.

Dubinusa

Just thinking back to Cian Kelleher signing with Leinster.
I would guess that someone is being let go.
Leinster are loaded with wings!
I think Ferg or DK would be axed 1st?
Can't see A.B leaving , nor Daly. I think Keenan will be signed. Jack Kelly is an option too.
It's peculiar that Leinster have not announced any departures or contracts!
Still nothing on Reid or Jack McGrath?

The Lost Sheep

Dubinusa wrote: »

I'm not building an argument. I'm voicing an opinion!
You obviously don't like it! So what, I can form an opinion and call it as I see it.
Does anyone think that Fardy or Tomane are on average salaries?
I could care less tbh. Tomane right now is not good enough to play center. He was fairly poor before the injury too.
I'm not spewing vile insults or hate about him. I think he's mediocre at best! I think R.O.L is a better option.
That makes me what?
I also think Fardy is a better option that all our 2nd rows, except Ryan.

What their salary is doesnt really matter. Tomane is more than good enough to play and isnt mediocre at best.

Dubinusa wrote: »

I'm not writing him off. I think he's below par at center.
We've better options.
Of course he deserves a shot. But, he needs to show something! He has been poor. Nobody can argue that!
On the flipside, Fardy has been outrageously good!
Delighted he was extended. He has produced.
I'm not hoping Tomane fails. I just think he's been a bad signing so far.
Based on experience and his reputation, he's been average. I hope he turns it around.

He hasnt been poor.... and wouldnt say he's been bad signing. he's there as much to help tide over side when internationals are away as anything else and he's been fine at that.

Richie_Rich89

Dubinusa wrote: »

Just thinking back to Cian Kelleher signing with Leinster.
I would guess that someone is being let go.
Leinster are loaded with wings!
I think Ferg or DK would be axed 1st?
Can't see A.B leaving , nor Daly. I think Keenan will be signed. Jack Kelly is an option too.
It's peculiar that Leinster have not announced any departures or contracts!
Still nothing on Reid or Jack McGrath?

Yeah. It's hard to see where Kelleher fits in unless there are departures from the current roster.

Maybe to replace RK if he goes? But I think he's much more suited to wing than fullback myself.

Clegg

Cronin and Reid were withdrawn due to head knocks and will follow the return to play protocols. So they're more than likely out for Saturday's game.

Reid probably wouldn't have been in the 23 so it's not that huge a blow. But missing Cronin is significant. He's been one of Leinster's best players this season as well as being our top try scorer.

Richie_Rich89

Clegg wrote: »

Cronin and Reid were withdrawn due to head knocks and will follow the return to play protocols. So they're more than likely out for Saturday's game.

Reid probably wouldn't have been in the 23 so it's not that huge a blow. But missing Cronin is significant. He's been one of Leinster's best players this season as well as being our top try scorer.

Tracy's a better scrummager and has more ruck presence. Probably has better hands too.

Bryan Byrne's very well suited to being an impact sub, especially if he comes on at the same time as his brother.

Shefwedfan

Dubinusa wrote: »

Of course they are imports! They are foreign. Irish lads elsewhere are foreign and imports.
Isa was foreign. Fardy is foreign.
Fardy is performing and produced from day 1. Tomane has not.
Fardy is what most fans hoped Tomane would be.
I just watched a Irish lad play for the freejacks last night.
Of course he's foreign.
As far as salary issues. Tomane imo, is making more than the average Irish player. Not including international players. I don't know what his salary is. I do know that C.O.B is on peanuts.
Tomane has been a disappointment imo. Injury aside, he has not offered anything that we already had.
He may turn it around! He may be the next Isa.
But he is not right now and imo, he's not at the required level to pass R.O.L at center.
He is most likely suited to be on the wing.

Foreign, imports etc....very vulgar in my opinion. I just refer to them as Leinster players. Are they somehow less of a player because they are not born in Ireland? Is Henshaw one of "these imports"?



What are you constanstly talking about wages? not been rude but what business is of your what Tomane makes? also what do you want to know what COB is on? what business is it of yours?


Leinster have constantly shown they promote young players and pay them what they deserve. Do you want them to release all the players wages so you can study them and figure out which player you think deserves which wage?

Tomane has played how many minutes? this has been pointed out numerous times. Give Tomane 5 games in a row with the full team and see what he does.

Everyone said JGP was s**t last year, I always said he would be a good player but he never got to play with Sexton, see what happened last season when he got a few games with Sexton.

A guy comes to play from Leinster, no matter where he comes from should be given time to settle in and rated on his performance after a sustained period in the first team. Not wrote off a s**t after walking onto the pitch because of some preconceived idea....

As Nigel would say "this is not soccer"

Squidgy Black

Clegg wrote: »

Cronin and Reid were withdrawn due to head knocks and will follow the return to play protocols. So they're more than likely out for Saturday's game.

Reid probably wouldn't have been in the 23 so it's not that huge a blow. But missing Cronin is significant. He's been one of Leinster's best players this season as well as being our top try scorer.

Cronin has been in awful form lately though, it won't hurt to give Tracy or Byrne a run with the first team.

Shefwedfan

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Cronin has been in awful form lately though, it won't hurt to give Tracy or Byrne a run with the first team.

One poor match against Italy when the lineout malfunctioned all match doesn't really represent awful form, going into the 6 nations he was one player you could say was in the form of his career.....

Burkie1203

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

Yeah. It's hard to see where Kelleher fits in unless there are departures from the current roster.

Maybe to replace RK if he goes? But I think he's much more suited to wing than fullback myself.

Kelleher could be more with an eye on 2020-21 and beyond.

RK probably will retire next year, Ferg will be 33 in 2-3 months. Larmour, Lowe (and Adam Byrne possibly) will be in Ireland squads. Dave Kearney is unknown. Potentially 3 of that group could be gone at end of next season and maybe it's prudent to be getting an IQ guy in now

Suspectman123

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Cronin has been in awful form lately though, it won't hurt to give Tracy or Byrne a run with the first team.

Yeh sure just throw Tracy and Bryne into first team for biggest game of the year
Throw Frawley in at 10 whiles were are at it

Cronin has been one of Leinster players of the season so far, one off color day with joe and co doesn’t reflect anything he’s done with Leinster imo

Squidgy Black

Shefwedfan wrote: »

One poor match against Italy when the lineout malfunctioned all match doesn't really represent awful form, going into the 6 nations he was one player you could say was in the form of his career.....

Was fairly poor against Edinburgh also. Form is temporary, and the 6 Nations started almost two months ago.

stephen_n

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Was fairly poor against Edinburgh also. Form is temporary, and the 6 Nations started almost two months ago.

It would appear he was concussed for a portion of that game.

Shefwedfan

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Was fairly poor against Edinburgh also. Form is temporary, and the 6 Nations started almost two months ago.

So we are side lining one of the players of the tournament based on away game against Edinburgh when we had a C team out, a gme which Leinster had nothing to gain from it and Edinburgh had everything to lose.....


I thought now the 6 nations was over he conversations about dropping players for no good reason would be over, seems not

Squidgy Black

Shefwedfan wrote: »

So we are side lining one of the players of the tournament based on away game against Edinburgh when we had a C team out, a gme which Leinster had nothing to gain from it and Edinburgh had everything to lose.....


I thought now the 6 nations was over he conversations about dropping players for no good reason would be over, seems not

He more than likely won't be playing anyways due to RTP....... I'm not saying drop him, I'm saying there's no harm in Tracy or Byrne get a run out seeing as he won't be playing.

Talk about an overreaction.

Yeah_Right

All this talk about Tomane reminds me of the way Jimmy Gopperth was treated by a large/vocal section of Leinster fans. That was disgraceful and pathetic.

Suspectman123

Shefwedfan wrote: »

So we are side lining one of the players of the tournament based on away game against Edinburgh when we had a C team out, a gme which Leinster had nothing to gain from it and Edinburgh had everything to lose.....


I thought now the 6 nations was over he conversations about dropping players for no good reason would be over, seems not

No it’s alive and well it seems

Shefwedfan

Suspectman123 wrote: »

No it’s alive and well it seems

Looks like it alright, next we will be dumping Sexton...

Faugheen

Yeah_Right wrote: »

All this talk about Tomane reminds me of the way Jimmy Gopperth was treated by a large/vocal section of Leinster fans. That was disgraceful and pathetic.

And James Lowe, JGP, Zane Kirchner etc.

I'm sensing a pattern here.