Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread X: [****]

Shefwedfan

Clegg wrote: »

A potential loss. We might play a mix and match rather than a full strength side.

I'm not trying to be a doom merchant about the Toulouse game either. Just that it would be better to have some sort of momentum going into the semi final.

Too many players with too few minutes. They will need to play full team


Sexton, Kearney, Toner, Henshaw etc all need minutes.....

Burkie1203

To quote Max Deegan, "fook"


https://twitter.com/patmccarry/status/1114631490606964736?s=19

Buer

Clegg wrote: »

That's honestly quite a blow. For the defence to not hold up in the end.

Terrible effort from O'Sullivan. If he even slowed the man down, Leinster would have gotten to him. It was as bad an effort as imaginable.

Still, not fussed. Happy with showings from the few lads who are contending for first 23 spots in the backs and Deegan. Some young guys went well i.e. Dunne and Penny.

But there were others who were not at the races. Unfortunately, Jack McGrath's departure is becoming less and less of an issue for me. Porter still mixes the good with the very sloppy. Luke McGrath is nowhere near his best still. Lowe was simply poor. Those are guys who you want to be setting the tone in this fixture but it was left to younger guys to step up.

Exclamation Marc

McFadden named as the latest Leinster Supporters Club legend.

Maybe some fuel to the fire that he's leaving at the end of the season.

Clegg

I think Deegan has secured a place in Leinster's 23 for the Toulouse game. SoB might get the Glasgow game to show he deserves to start in the semi.

Maybe give Lowe and Luke McGrath one more game each. Neither has played much recently. When both are on top form they make Leinster so much better.

Exclamation Marc

Clegg wrote: »

I think Deegan has secured a place in Leinster's 23 for the Toulouse game. SoB might get the Glasgow game to show he deserves to start in the semi.

Maybe give Lowe and Luke McGrath one more game each. Neither has played much recently. When both are on top form they make Leinster so much better.

Leinster need Lowe for Toulouse. Fardy or JGP have to miss out. They lacked the x factor on the wing against Ulster.

Buer

Exclamation Marc wrote: »

Leinster need Lowe for Toulouse. Fardy or JGP have to miss out. They lacked the x factor on the wing against Ulster.

Lowe was poor tonight. He has been fairly mediocre since the red card. His ceiling is extremely high but if he's not coming close to that with any consistency, Kearney and Byrne should retain their spots.

They've both already beaten Toulouse this season and played very well in doing so.

Exclamation Marc

Buer wrote: »

Lowe was poor tonight. He has been fairly mediocre since the red card. His ceiling is extremely high but if he's not coming close to that with any consistency, Kearney and Byrne should retain their spots.

They've both already beaten Toulouse this season and played very well in doing so.

He's not played with the Leinster full team at all since December so it's hard to really judge his performance when he's been outside COB or ROL. I think Lowe has to start. Kearney and Byrne did well but didn't offer much xfactor on the wings or trouble Ulster much outside of Byrne try. Lowe to play next week and then start the semi final for me.

The Rape of Lucretia

The last thing Leo and Lancaster need is a player with X-factor. X-factor means out of control. They are far too good to need to hope that a player produces something they havent scripted. x-factor players are the mark of poor teams, and poor coaches, hoping that a player gets them out of gaol. Leinster is above that level.

Exclamation Marc

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

The last thing Leo and Lancaster need is a player with X-factor. X-factor means out of control. They are far too good to need to hope that a player produces something they havent scripted. x-factor players are the mark of poor teams, and poor coaches, hoping that a player gets them out of gaol. Leinster is above that level.

Well that's a complete load of nonsense. X-factor means someone with a special level of quality or talent not lack of control. Unpredictable to some extent but lack of control.... Please.

errlloyd

Leinster made 277 tackles today. The total in the game was 442. Last week's game was 462. After last week's game I looked for any other match as high and didn't find a single game over 400.

molloyjh

What’s all this talk about x-factor? Personally I couldn’t give two s**ts about x-factor. Fergus McFadden isn’t an x-factor player, but he’d run through walls for this team. He’ll set standards in training and lead by example in games through sheer effort. He’ll work his socks off to make sure he does everything he can for the team.

On the flip side you’ve got a certain Mr X-Factor playing abroad who only wants to know when it suits him. X-Factor alone is a load of me boll*x. It happens for fractions of seconds here and there. The other “non x-factor stuff” is what happens for the other 79 and whatever number of minutes.

That said, I think Lowe needs a run of games. Sadly, at this stage of the seaso, a run of games isn’t available. I think he’ll feature in the P14 SF though. Outside a full strength side he is superb, and for all of the above he doesn’t lack for effort.

I didn’t see much of tonight’s game, but Tomane looked to have improved even more. Daly looked good at FB and Reid looked very handy at 10. I’ve had comments that Frawley was better. Any truth to that? Deegan is really stepping it up too, which is great. But poor Jack McGrath looks to be struggling badly for form.

kingofthekong

SOB has shown absolutely nothing to be ahead of Deegan for the Semi against Toulouse , Deegan deserves it

Exclamation Marc

molloyjh wrote: »

What’s all this talk about x-factor? Personally I couldn’t give two s**ts about x-factor. Fergus McFadden isn’t an x-factor player, but he’d run through walls for this team. He’ll set standards in training and lead by example in games through sheer effort. He’ll work his socks off to make sure he does everything he can for the team.

On the flip side you’ve got a certain Mr X-Factor playing abroad who only wants to know when it suits him. X-Factor alone is a load of me boll*x. It happens for fractions of seconds here and there. The other “non x-factor stuff” is what happens for the other 79 and whatever number of minutes.

That said, I think Lowe needs a run of games. Sadly, at this stage of the seaso, a run of games isn’t available. I think he’ll feature in the P14 SF though. Outside a full strength side he is superb, and for all of the above he doesn’t lack for effort.

I didn’t see much of tonight’s game, but Tomane looked to have improved even more. Daly looked good at FB and Reid looked very handy at 10. I’ve had comments that Frawley was better. Any truth to that? Deegan is really stepping it up too, which is great. But poor Jack McGrath looks to be struggling badly for form.

I give a s**t about 'x factor' if it wins us games or contributes to us winning games but hey, maybe that's just me.

Unpredictability is needed against a team like Toulouse in the SF. Ferg is good but we might need more than a workhorse and there's nothing wrong with a player who will concern Toulouse. James Lowe at his best is unstoppable and I'd rather him than Adam Byrne on the wing, as much as I like Adam Byrne.

Didn't realise James Lowe was suddenly such a pariah.

And tbh I've no idea what relevance Zebo has to this discussion.

Interested Observer

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

The last thing Leo and Lancaster need is a player with X-factor. X-factor means out of control. They are far too good to need to hope that a player produces something they havent scripted. x-factor players are the mark of poor teams, and poor coaches, hoping that a player gets them out of gaol. Leinster is above that level.

One of Lancaster's biggest contributions, that the players have referenced again and again and again and again, is in unstructured play. So no.

Former Former

Buer wrote: »

Lowe was poor tonight. He has been fairly mediocre since the red card. His ceiling is extremely high but if he's not coming close to that with any consistency, Kearney and Byrne should retain their spots.

They've both already beaten Toulouse this season and played very well in doing so.

I think it's very hard to justify picking Lowe for the semi-final. His form hasn't been great and there's the Kolpak thing.

Adam Byrne looked lively against Ulster but his defence was exposed again. Would he cope with Kolbe, Ramos, Ntamack etc?

I would bring RK back in and have Larmour and DK on the wings.

Shefwedfan

Buer wrote: »

Lowe was poor tonight. He has been fairly mediocre since the red card. His ceiling is extremely high but if he's not coming close to that with any consistency, Kearney and Byrne should retain their spots.

They've both already beaten Toulouse this season and played very well in doing so.

Get him on the pitch, he is a big game player. He has had limited first team chances and looked rusty

Kearney and Byrne played well against ulster but no cutting edge, Lowe needs to start

Buer

In the context of having to select Lowe over JGP or Fardy, I don't think this should even be in question.

We have wingers who are playing well and delivering in big games recently. On form, Lowe is comfortably our best winger but he's not on form. He made two or three bad errors last night that were costly. Larmour, DK and Byrne are all well able to start on the wing without issue and Larmour and Byrne provide plenty of attacking threat.

With our options and injuries in the second/back row and at scrum half, Fardy and JGP have to feature and both are playing well consistently. Even if they are on the bench, being able to lift the speed of the game in the final 30 minutes against Toulouse will be key.

Burkie1203

https://twitter.com/MarkPalmerST/status/1114795071726137344?s=19

Buer

molloyjh wrote: »

I didn’t see much of tonight’s game, but Tomane looked to have improved even more. Daly looked good at FB and Reid looked very handy at 10. I’ve had comments that Frawley was better

It's the best I've seen from Frawley in the context that it wasn't a walkover game and the team actually needed him to step up. Defensively, he was excellent and made very good decisions. Put down carriers repeatedly who were on the cusp of breaking the line. Passed decently, put in a nice touch finder, kicked all his goals and showed good pace for his try. Very heartening after his last couple of appearances were far from assured.

It was Tomane's best showing comfortably. He looked far, far better in attack that he had previously. Not flawless. One poor knock on and got into a tangle with Reid during advantage in their 22. But his passing was very good, showing quick hands on more than one occasion and a lovely flat pass out to the wing to create a break in the second half. Another high work rate showing in defence too. Nearly made a try with a clever kick but the shortest man on the pitch was trying to gather it.

Buer

The big positive to take from last night was that the lads who played the majority of the game were so young. A 23 year old tight head, 20 year old lock, 22 year old blindside, 21 year old No. 8, 19 year old open side and 21 year old outhalf.

Fardy had a very busy performance and led them well up front. I reckon we'll see a similar team go to Belfast in a few weeks, they deserve a other run out before the season ends. With Kearney probably gone for the season and Molony continuing to be absent, Jack Dunne might even see a little more time than that.

salmocab

I’m liking Jack Dunne I have to say, what age is he? Looks like he could be a very good player in a few years time.

stephen_n

The most disappointing thing for me last night wasn’t on the pitch. It was in the terrace around me. As expected even when Tomane had a really good game, every move he made was being criticized by certain “supporters”. Luke’s views are echoed by far too many. I found myself almost over compensating in my praise for him, just trying to shut them up. It’s really quite saddening and frustrating listening to it. Even that lovely little Crossfield chip that McGrath couldn’t finish, they were criticizing. It’s clear at this stage some people have made up their minds that Johnny Foriegner is not good enough, regardless of how well he plays.

Thought Deegan was superb again last night. It seems like Leo’s measured criticism earlier in the season has really motivated him. There isn’t really any area of his game on either side of the ball that’s lacking at the moment. Thought Reid went really well, attacking the gain line early on to make their defence focus on him was really good. Frawley though really stood up last night, very composed. His place kicking is amazingly accurate too, can’t find his stats but he must be at 90% or so from memory. Can’t really remember him missing any?

swiwi_

I’ve no proof that this occurs, but professional rugby is a small community and I doubt Gopperth or Tomane would be singing Leinster’s praises to rugby players looking for an overseas gig. Your average SANZAAR player usually has several options in Japan, France, England then the Pro 14 clubs, and if Leinster has a rep for crap fan support, maybe that influences a players decision which club he opts for. Maybe it plays no role whatsoever.

salmocab

swiwi_ wrote: »

I’ve no proof that this occurs, but professional rugby is a small community and I doubt Gopperth or Tomane would be singing Leinster’s praises to rugby players looking for an overseas gig. Your average SANZAAR player usually has several options in Japan, France, England then the Pro 14 clubs, and if Leinster has a rep for crap fan support, maybe that influences a players decision which club he opts for. Maybe it plays no role whatsoever.

That’s a two way street I’d say though, for every Gopperth and Tomane there is an Isa and a Fardy.
Players will be drawn to winning cultures and pay, ultimately in greater or lesser proportions.

swiwi_

salmocab wrote: »

That’s a two way street I’d say though, for every Gopperth and Tomane there is an Isa and a Fardy.
Players will be drawn to winning cultures and pay, ultimately in greater or lesser proportions.

Like I said I have no idea. I think Toulon’s owner has done Toulon a real disservice with his treatment of Savea. Obviously the owner of a club can’t be compared to a segment of fans, but I reckon this kind of thing might be discussed among players.

irishbucsfan

swiwi_ wrote: »

I’ve no proof that this occurs, but professional rugby is a small community and I doubt Gopperth or Tomane would be singing Leinster’s praises to rugby players looking for an overseas gig. Your average SANZAAR player usually has several options in Japan, France, England then the Pro 14 clubs, and if Leinster has a rep for crap fan support, maybe that influences a players decision which club he opts for. Maybe it plays no role whatsoever.

Or you know, maybe they're more likely to listen to players like Isa Nacewa or Rocky Elsom

The Rape of Lucretia

stephen_n wrote: »

It’s clear at this stage some people have made up their minds that Johnny Foriegner is not good enough, regardless of how well he plays.

Fake news. And an unfair gratuitous swipe at your fellow Leinster supporter being racist.

Or maybe you are right. They way Leinster fans rejected Elsom, Isa, Whitaker, Hekanui, Hines, Contepomi, Strauss simply because they werent from the Sandymount-Blackrock-Terenure golden triangle, even though they played well, does say something.

The Rape of Lucretia

stephen_n wrote: »

Thought Deegan was superb again last night. It seems like Leo’s measured criticism earlier in the season has really motivated him. There isn’t really any area of his game on either side of the ball that’s lacking at the moment. Thought Reid went really well, attacking the gain line early on to make their defence focus on him was really good. Frawley though really stood up last night, very composed. His place kicking is amazingly accurate too, can’t find his stats but he must be at 90% or so from memory. Can’t really remember him missing any?

Agree on your rugby comments though.
Deegan is good. He will be the player some people thought Conan might be, and Conan's needs to savour every moment of his short interregnum in the middle of the Heaslip-Deegan era.

Frawley looks the berries. A Byrne, only better.

Clegg

Deegan is down for 29 tackles competed. That's the most out of any player on the pitch. He's also down for 11 carries for 51 metres. He made more metres than any Leinster forward. I don't think he can be left out of the squad for Toulouse now. Been playing too well.