Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread X: [****]

Interested Observer

Very impressive from Dunne who was only on for 50 mins. Commented to my pals on the terrace that he looked absolutely wrecked on about 75 mins, didn't realise he'd put in such a shift.

Shefwedfan

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

It's obviously a plus point that players coming from a different way of doing things bring a new perspective. But surely you must agree that there's a point at which you can have too many signings? The positive of having people who see or do things slightly differently gets outweighed by the negative of emergent players being denied gametime.

Conor O'Brien would never have come through if Tomane hadn't got injured. Bear that in mind when you're lauding the Tomane signing. You have to accept the drawbacks that come with these moves as well.

That's why the IRFU stepped in and limited the signing. Also why everything goes past the IRFU first before the provinces can sign. This means young players are not blocked and the player is signed to complement the team...


This rule was brought in circa 2011 or so.....



Not sure why people are worried about players getting blocked. If anything since the rule has come in the Ireland team has got stronger and stronger and the amount of players signed to compliment the clubs has reduced.

thomond2006

If any player that is good enough is "blocked" , then they'll go on to prove Leinster wrong at another club. The only Leinster produced players to have done so in recent years are Conway and Beirne. Beirne's case was due to recurring injury so it's difficult to fault Leinster.

There's been plenty young players at Leinster that couldn't break into the side and whose subsequent careers justified Leinster's lack of faith.

The provinces have to balance development with success and the restrictions on foreign signings by Lansdowne Road strikes a decent balance.

Interested Observer

Conway played something close to 50 times for Leinster, he got loads of chances.

Shefwedfan

thomond2006 wrote: »

If any player that is good enough is "blocked" , then they'll go on to prove Leinster wrong at another club. The only Leinster produced players to have done so in recent years are Conway and Beirne. Beirne's case was due to recurring injury so it's difficult to fault Leinster.

There's been plenty young players at Leinster that couldn't break into the side and whose subsequent careers justified Leinster's lack of faith.

The provinces have to balance development with success and the restrictions on foreign signings by Lansdowne Road strikes a decent balance.

Conway was blocked by Shaggy so he moved. After he announced the move Shaggy retired and he played the big games that season, winning 2 trophies.

Former Former

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Conway was blocked by Shaggy so he moved. After he announced the move Shaggy retired and he played the big games that season, winning 2 trophies.

You're a year out on your timing. Horgan was long gone by the time Conway moved.

salmocab

Former Former wrote: »

You're a year out on your timing. Horgan was long gone by the time Conway moved.

My memory of Conway was he was decent but once he decided he was off, for whatever reason he started playing a lot better, although that did coincide with a run of matches.

stephen_n

It was Isa “blocking” Conway, or at least that was the thinking at the time. I’m pretty sure Conway said he’d have considered staying if he knew Isa was going.

Squidgy Black

I see they've told the A team players who is traveling to Boston, but still no official squad list.

molloyjh

Former Former wrote: »

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Conway was blocked by Shaggy so he moved. After he announced the move Shaggy retired and he played the big games that season, winning 2 trophies.

You're a year out on your timing. Horgan was long gone by the time Conway moved.

Yeah, Conway had Rob, Luke, Dave, Ferg and Isa ahead of him. Isa was moving on, but he was still doing well to make the 23 with any regularity.

Shefwedfan

Former Former wrote: »

You're a year out on your timing. Horgan was long gone by the time Conway moved.

Sorry I am, I thought he got back into the team on the back of shaggy injury

Richie_Rich89

thomond2006 wrote: »

If any player that is good enough is "blocked" , then they'll go on to prove Leinster wrong at another club. The only Leinster produced players to have done so in recent years are Conway and Beirne. Beirne's case was due to recurring injury so it's difficult to fault Leinster.

There's been plenty young players at Leinster that couldn't break into the side and whose subsequent careers justified Leinster's lack of faith.

The provinces have to balance development with success and the restrictions on foreign signings by Lansdowne Road strikes a decent balance.

That's rather a simplistic way of looking at things. Beirne got lucky in the sense that there was an opposition coach with an eye for talent, a hole to fill in his squad in Beirne's position, and links to his club coach. If that offer doesn't come, Beirne is retiring from pro rugby and getting on with the rest of his life. He'd then go down in your book as not good enough, and doesn't count as a blocked player.

If all the feedback a player is getting is telling him that he's not good enough, then it takes someone with a lot of self-belief and determination to keep going. Look at Interested Observer's comment at the top of this page. The coach knows best, so if he's saying your not worth a development deal, or even a short-term contract, then it's easy to shrug your shoulders and say you gave it a try but it just didn't work out.

Signing a player automatically pushes everyone below them in the pecking order down a rung. That means less gametime, less opportunities. It's easy to lose motivation in those circumstances. Rory O'Loughlin spoke about how disillusioned he was getting, and how he was considering packing it in before finally being given an opportunity.

Tom Farrell is another one. Never given a minutes senior gametime in his four years at Leinster, and now being called into international squads. But Championship rugby isn't for everyone.

Richie_Rich89

Conway was given lots of gametime. He just got impatient and decided to move at the age Jimmy O'Brien was at the start of this season. O'Brien is coming to the age when he really needs as much gametime as he can get. But Cullen thought having Ringrose and O'Loughlin ahead of him wasn't enough and signed someone else as well.

Richie_Rich89

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Lowe
Tomane
JGP
Fardy

Bent
Henshaw
Cronin

7 Out of a squad of 57?



Last year Heaslip, Strauss, Isa retired
Jordi moved North
Carbery moved south

Tomane was the one and only signing.


I think COB has not been held back by Tomane at all. He made his debut last season before Tomane was signed and made a further 2 or 3 appearances last season too.

Looking at the number of signings alone doesn't give the full picture. You have to look at what the pre-existing options were as well. When Leinster had a glut of wingers, and Henshaw, ROL, COB, and Reid at 12, it's complete overkill to add someone else to the mix.

The reason COB has not been held back is that Tomane was injured for months. It's as if he was never signed in the first place during that period, and much more an argument for Leinster not needing him than an argument for him not holding COB back. How can he hold COB back if he's unavailable for months? - and where would COB be now if Tomane hadn't got injured? Certainly with less gametime than he has now. The desire from Cullen to give Tomane every chance so his little project paid off would have meant that Tomane got every bit of gametime going.

Burkie1203

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

Looking at the number of signings alone doesn't give the full picture. You have to look at what the pre-existing options were as well. When Leinster had a glut of wingers, and Henshaw, ROL, COB, and Reid at 12, it's complete overkill to add someone else to the mix.

The reason COB has not been held back is that Tomane was injured for months. It's as if he was never signed in the first place during that period, and much more an argument for Leinster not needing him than an argument for him not holding COB back. How can he hold COB back if he's unavailable for months? - and where would COB be now if Tomane hadn't got injured? Certainly with less gametime than he has now. The desire from Cullen to give Tomane every chance so his little project paid off would have meant that Tomane got every bit of gametime going.

Carbery was shipped South. Reid has ended up covering 10 and Henshaw is unavailable for half the season due to Ireland etc.

Tomane was signed to provide backline cover. He got injured while played left wing IIRC. COB has in no way been held back by Tomane. Injury or not.

salmocab

Ah seriously 2 weeks ago Cullen was just a pr manager now Tomane is his project. This is just clueless nonsense from someone with some axe to grind with Cullen.

Shefwedfan

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

That's rather a simplistic way of looking at things. Beirne got lucky in the sense that there was an opposition coach with an eye for talent, a hole to fill in his squad in Beirne's position, and links to his club coach. If that offer doesn't come, Beirne is retiring from pro rugby and getting on with the rest of his life. He'd then go down in your book as not good enough, and doesn't count as a blocked player.

If all the feedback a player is getting is telling him that he's not good enough, then it takes someone with a lot of self-belief and determination to keep going. Look at Interested Observer's comment at the top of this page. The coach knows best, so if he's saying your not worth a development deal, or even a short-term contract, then it's easy to shrug your shoulders and say you gave it a try but it just didn't work out.

Signing a player automatically pushes everyone below them in the pecking order down a rung. That means less gametime, less opportunities. It's easy to lose motivation in those circumstances. Rory O'Loughlin spoke about how disillusioned he was getting, and how he was considering packing it in before finally being given an opportunity.

Tom Farrell is another one. Never given a minutes senior gametime in his four years at Leinster, and now being called into international squads. But Championship rugby isn't for everyone.

What a load of rubbish

Talk to any player and when a signing comes in the challenge for them is to get better and keep their place. A team full of players who are happy in the knowledge they are first team and then a team of young player who think they will automatically get into first team because they came via the system will be a disaster.,...

If ROL is disillusioned then buck up his game, extra practise etc.....this isn’t some second tier team, this is a club looking to win the top trophies in European

T Farrell got into an international squad, so did majority of the players in Ireland, come back to me when he is starting in most of the games

sydthebeat

Tom farrell was never within an asses roar of a senior appearance with leinster.

He had only seven apps for the A side and initially found it hard to even get into the academy.

That is a complete red herring to suggest a player like him was stimied in his development due to Jonny foreigner.

salmocab

sydthebeat wrote: »

Tom farrell was never within an asses roar of a senior appearance with leinster.

He had only seven apps for the A side and initially found out hard to even get into the academy.

That is a complete red herring to suggest a player like him was stimied in his development due to Jonny foreigner.

I would think some players just need a change of scenery, some just won’t flourish in a particular set up for whatever reason.

stephen_n

sydthebeat wrote: »

Tom farrell was never within an asses roar of a senior appearance with leinster.

He had only seven apps for the A side and initially found it hard to even get into the academy.

That is a complete red herring to suggest a player like him was stimied in his development due to Jonny foreigner.

It’s all Isa’a fault blocking Tom Farrel!

Seriously though, this is like having our own Ewan McKenna, he just keeps pitching balls of sh1te and everyone lines up to bat them. It’s the same stuff he’s been posting since T’eo.

kingofthekong

Really enjoyed seeing that young Leinster backrow going up against the guts of the Italian Six nations Pack and performing well, could well be the Ireland Backrow in a number of years

Shefwedfan

stephen_n wrote: »

It’s all Isa’a fault blocking Tom Farrel!

Seriously though, this is like having our own Ewan McKenna, he just keeps pitching balls of sh1te and everyone lines up to bat them. It’s the same stuff he’s been posting since T’eo.

It is all Isa's fault. He has blocked all these Irish internationals for the last few years, it is a disgrace


Also going about and playing well, winning trophies and making Leo Cullen look good so he got the top job. Disgrace as well. Everyone knows Leo hasn't a clue....


I think we can all agree it is Isa's fault....now where did I pul my tin foil hat

Buer

In more positive news, it was reported this morning that Henshaw and Toner are set to feature against Glasgow.

Former Former

Buer wrote: »

In more positive news, it was reported this morning that Henshaw and Toner are set to feature against Glasgow.

We've been hearing that Henshaw is 'very close' for about two months now, I'll believe it when I see him actually take the pitch. We absolutely need him back though, and Toner too; especially now that Mick Kearney's season is presumably over.

It doesn't sound like Sexton will be playing against Toulouse though.

molloyjh

Former Former wrote: »

We've been hearing that Henshaw is 'very close' for about two months now, I'll believe it when I see him actually take the pitch. We absolutely need him back though, and Toner too; especially now that Mick Kearney's season is presumably over.

It doesn't sound like Sexton will be playing against Toulouse though.

Where are you seeing that?

Sure we beat them in Jan without him. Be grand.

irishbucsfan

What happens is Sexton misses the game against Toulouse and Ross Byrne plays well again and we win? Interesting problem developing there.

errlloyd

irishbucsfan wrote: »

What happens is Sexton misses the game against Toulouse and Ross Byrne plays well again and we win? Interesting problem developing there.

He's racking up a fairly good record of not losing tight hard games. Exeter at home in 2017, Munster 2018, Ulster 2019. Sure, we should have won them all. But he's getting there in terms of being an outhalf who pulls it out.

Former Former

molloyjh wrote: »

Where are you seeing that?

Sure we beat them in Jan without him. Be grand.

Where am I seeing what? The Sexton bit? He hasn't been training, there's no positive noises about him coming back. Usually if a guy is even 50-50 we're told that he absolutely will be lining out.

Overall, I'd be surprised if he's available.

Shefwedfan

Former Former wrote: »

We've been hearing that Henshaw is 'very close' for about two months now, I'll believe it when I see him actually take the pitch. We absolutely need him back though, and Toner too; especially now that Mick Kearney's season is presumably over.

It doesn't sound like Sexton will be playing against Toulouse though.

I seen an interview with him, maybe it was Eir, he said he was ready to come back.....Henshaw that is

Sexton I have no idea....if he doesn't play this weekend then he isout

thomond2006

Leinster will put out the strongest possible team vs. Glasgow because Leinster are a great bunch of lads.