Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread X: [****]

Podge_irl

Leinster are evens to slight underdogs for the match, which seems pretty fair to me. Leavy/VDF would make a difference but otherwise they have actually rounded into fitness surprisingly well.

Former Former

Larbre34 wrote: »

In the RTÉ news coverage of the Lancaster briefing today, they suggested that Leinster go in to the final as underdogs despite being holders etc.

I don't think that for a second, does anyone agree with them and why?

You could say that home country advantage should give Sarries an edge, beyond that it might just be cute hoorism.

Paddy Power has it dead even.

Shefwedfan

Larbre34 wrote: »

In the RTÉ news coverage of the Lancaster briefing today, they suggested that Leinster go in to the final as underdogs despite being holders etc.

I don't think that for a second, does anyone agree with them and why?

Leinster are the underdogs. In the last 3 trophies Saracens have won 2 of them, Leinster 1.



Saracens have a budget which is massive compared to Leinster.

Saracens have home advantage
Saracens are currently unbeaten in the competition. Leinster are not
Saracens have a huge percentage of the England team, I think we remember what happened in the recent England v Ireland game



Based on those points alone Saracens have to be favorites

salmocab

Assuming no new injuries and all available from the semi would you start Fardy and bench Ruddock or vice versa?

Interested Observer

salmocab wrote: »

Assuming no new injuries and all available from the semi would you start Fardy and bench Ruddock or vice versa?

Start Fardy I think.

Podge_irl

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Leinster are the underdogs. In the last 3 trophies Saracens have won 2 of them, Leinster 1.
Saracens have a budget which is massive compared to Leinster.
Saracens have home advantage
Saracens are currently unbeaten in the competition. Leinster are not
Saracens have a huge percentage of the England team, I think we remember what happened in the recent England v Ireland game

3 years ago is hardly relevant to this weekend. Also the budget issue comes up a lot, but I highly doubt that Saracens player budget is significantly more than Leinster's - one need only look at the number of internationals that populate both teams. It really, really isn't home advantage either.

Saracens are probably a slightly more complete team right now, though with the recent return to fitness of Henshaw, Cronin looking ok for the weekend and SOB at least having some gametime under his belt it should be fairly even. I think this is the least confident I've been of Leinster going into a final, but that's basically just cause Saracens are the best team Leinster have faced in a final.

Podge_irl

salmocab wrote: »

Assuming no new injuries and all available from the semi would you start Fardy and bench Ruddock or vice versa?

I'd start Ruddock. If it is at all close in the last 20 Fardy is the perfect player to bring on

Squidgy Black

D14Rugby wrote: »

Thought it was fairly well known but leinster in particular are actually world leaders in sports science, particularly injury prevention and recovery. The players are monitored constantly to such a level that when something does happen in theory leinster know exactly what happened, where a player is and where they should be meaning their recovery is really efficient.

I've done a really bad job explaining it there but it is a really interesting thing to read up on.

Yeah they've access to some of the best player monitoring software/programs in Europe as well as a top end medical team.

But there's only so much sports science and medical professionals can do in terms of recovery compared to how the human body actually heals. You've to remember that the timelines given for recovery generally incorporate this sort of thing, and are what the physios and doctors have seen from previous experience. Yet VdF seems to come in well ahead of these timelines every time.

swiwi_

troyzer wrote: »

Full deck pretty much.

Take a minute away from the forum and go for a pee.

jacothelad

troyzer wrote: »

Full deck pretty much.

swiwi_ wrote: »

Take a minute away from the forum and go for a pee.

No Swiwi, a full deck he said.......:D:D

Burkie1203

https://m.independent.ie/sport/rugby/leinster-rugby/munster-issue-handsoff-warning-to-leinster-over-star-scrumhalf-38086276.html

salmocab

Burkie1203 wrote: »

https://m.independent.ie/sport/rugby/leinster-rugby/munster-issue-handsoff-warning-to-leinster-over-star-scrumhalf-38086276.html

Indo in story with no substance shocker. Hands off warning, utter tosh.

Shefwedfan

Burkie1203 wrote: »

https://m.independent.ie/sport/rugby/leinster-rugby/munster-issue-handsoff-warning-to-leinster-over-star-scrumhalf-38086276.html

Indo seems to forget the rolling contracts handed out to Mathewson....shocked I am

He will never see first team action while in Munster

Ulster could be a decent move for him, Connacht are loaded and Leinster ok with McGrath and JGP

Buer

Craig Casey has a fantastic shot at being second choice at Munster in 8 months. Even if the Leinster approach was true, he would be mad to take it.

With AB done in December, it's a straight shoot out with Cronin and McCarthy for the bench.

Larbre34

There's no logic to Leinster being interested really, O'Sullivan is a talent, he has a big period ahead in the RWC window.

That said, if we want Casey to carry tackle bags and water, we'll have him 😉

thomond2006

The feck outta here, ye robbin' scoundrels.

Shefwedfan

Buer wrote: »

Craig Casey has a fantastic shot at being second choice at Munster in 8 months. Even if the Leinster approach was true, he would be mad to take it.

With AB done in December, it's a straight shoot out with Cronin and McCarthy for the bench.

If that was the case then why sign McCarthy? McCarthy has gone down based on been backup to Murray.

Exclamation Marc

salmocab wrote: »

Indo in story with no substance shocker. Hands off warning, utter tosh.

Would be some vote of no confidence to HOS and Patterson if true. Can't see any legs to it really.

Buer

Shefwedfan wrote: »

If that was the case then why sign McCarthy? McCarthy has gone down based on been backup to Murray.

Because Casey has literally only turned 20 in the last few weeks and had minimal exposure when McCarthy signed. It's impossible to know how someone is going to develop without being involved in a professional set up and performing at a higher level. Since McCarthy signed, Casey has made his Munster debut and arguably been Ireland's best player in a Grand Slam at U20 level. He has put himself firmly into the picture now and has huge scope to develop further.

I think McCarthy will start out as back up to Murray but that situation could quickly change. Casey will undoubtedly get a chunk of time next season to develop and push on.

salmocab

Shefwedfan wrote: »

If that was the case then why sign McCarthy? McCarthy has gone down based on been backup to Murray.

The guy is an u20 who might not turn into a decent player or could go on to be a top international or anything in between, he’s a good prospect but Munster can’t work on the basis that he’ll be ready very soon. I don’t see any issue with Munster signing Mc Carthy keeping Mathewson and having some good prospects.

AdamD

Burkie1203 wrote: »

https://m.independent.ie/sport/rugby/leinster-rugby/munster-issue-handsoff-warning-to-leinster-over-star-scrumhalf-38086276.html

Would be quite amusing after the signings going the other way. Leo Cullen seemed particularly miffed after the Nick McCarthy signing was announced.

salmocab

Exclamation Marc wrote: »

Would be some vote of no confidence to HOS and Patterson if true. Can't see any legs to it really.

It’s the indo taking something they heard and building a narrative around it. I’d say there is plenty of enquiries of young players by all the provinces going on all the time, on the off chance that their home province is dropping the ball on them or even the lad himself isn’t happy for any reason.

Quin_Dub

salmocab wrote: »

It’s the indo taking something they heard and building a narrative around it. I’d say there is plenty of enquiries of young players by all the provinces going on all the time, on the off chance that their home province is dropping the ball on them or even the lad himself isn’t happy for any reason.

There's absolute truth to the story..

Leinster offered Casey a 2yr full pro contract , Munster then offered him the same deal and he chose to stay with Munster - All happened the week-end he made his debut.

troyzer

Quin_Dub wrote: »

salmocab wrote: »

It’s the indo taking something they heard and building a narrative around it. I’d say there is plenty of enquiries of young players by all the provinces going on all the time, on the off chance that their home province is dropping the ball on them or even the lad himself isn’t happy for any reason.

There's absolute truth to the story..

Leinster offered Casey a 2yr full pro contract , Munster then offered him the same deal and he chose to stay with Munster - All happened the week-end he made his debut.

I wonder if it's more a shot across the bow than anything.

salmocab

Quin_Dub wrote: »

There's absolute truth to the story..

Leinster offered Casey a 2yr full pro contract , Munster then offered him the same deal and he chose to stay with Munster - All happened the week-end he made his debut.

That’s not even what the indo said in the story, they said he’s getting a development contract for a year with a pro contract on the table the year after.

Quin_Dub

troyzer wrote: »

I wonder if it's more a shot across the bow than anything.

Casey is happy either way , without the Leinster approach, Munster would have left him in the Academy (and on Academy money) for at least another year, maybe two.

As a result of the Leinster Interest , he now has a full pro contract and all that goes with it..

Quin_Dub

salmocab wrote: »

That’s not even what the indo said in the story, they said he’s getting a development contract for a year with a pro contract on the table the year after.

I had been told that it was a full contract for 2yrs , but the above might be more accurate.

Either way , prior to the Leinster intervention there had been no discussion of a contract upgrade with Casey , Munster were happy for him to see out at least another year in the Academy.

If nothing else , Munster were forced to make an offer that they hadn't planned to make (at least no for a while yet)

salmocab

Quin_Dub wrote: »

I had been told that it was a full contract for 2yrs , but the above might be more accurate.

Either way , prior to the Leinster intervention there had been no discussion of a contract upgrade with Casey , Munster were happy for him to see out at least another year in the Academy.

If nothing else , Munster were forced to make an offer that they hadn't planned to make (at least no for a while yet)

Like I said I’m sure plenty of sounding out players goes on constantly by everyone, it’s a story that could probably have been written about a few players and despite the headline there is no real substance to the article.

awec

I reckon this is just leinster playing games, and trying to make a point.

Quin_Dub

salmocab wrote: »

Like I said I’m sure plenty of sounding out players goes on constantly by everyone, it’s a story that could probably have been written about a few players and despite the headline there is no real substance to the article.

Not quite sure how you can say "no substance" - Can't believe you have me defending the Indo here!! :-)

Casey was contacted by Mick Dawson with an offer , he was then phoned by Leo Cullen telling him how much they thought of him etc. etc.

Quite literally within an hour of that call, Van Graan was at Caseys door in person making him the offer of the contract so that he wouldn't sign for Leinster.

Which is basically exactly what the Article says..

Munster have issued a 'hands-off' warning to Leinster after the rival province attempted to sign one of their brightest prospects, Craig Casey.

The Irish Independent understands that Leo Cullen is a keen admirer of the 20-year-old scrum-half and has sounded out Casey's interest in joining Leinster.

Munster have since responded by offering the Limerick native a development contract ahead of next season, with a full senior deal set to be on the table for the following year.

Outside of a bit of journalist flourish - "Issued a hands-off warning" etc. , what's lacking substance?

Leinster tried to sign a Munster Academy player and Munster were forced to upgrade the players contract terms to fend of said offer from Leinster.