Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread X: [****]

durthacht

Heymans wrote: »

...
Ross Byrne seems to want an armchair ride every time he takes the field and isn’t willing to fight for good position and possession when he gets sloppy ball. He doesn’t seem to have the leadership attributes to Marshall the team when times are hard . His kicking is not at all to the standard of pro14 and relying on teammates to take up your bread and butter fly half duties shows a frail ness in character.
...

Squidgy Black wrote: »

You're absolutely talking out of your hole here.

I was going to say that Heymans was being a little harsh, but "You're absolutely talking out of your hole here" sums it up pretty well.

I thought it was a mature performance from Byrne. His decision making and passing are generally good, and his kicking is very good. He was trying to guide a new 12 through his first match for the club, with no other play makers in the back line, and he was probably a little rusty himself as I think he didn't play any pre-season games.

It's a fair criticism that he doesn't take the ball to the line very well, but hopefully he'll work on that and he was getting better at it late last season. It's a decision making skill which will develop in time and generally I prefer the fly half to not be stuck on the bottom of a ruck when avoidable.

O'Loughlin commented last week that Byrne is becoming a leader in the group so I'm not sure why Heymans thinks he doesn't direct the team on the pitch . I haven't see him avoid responsibility and his regular very good performances in the Champions Cup and Pro 14 last year prove he's up to this standard. I think Byrne is generally consistent, mature, solid, and occasionally excellent. He's doing grand in my opinion.

Dubinusa

J.O.B is certainly a very good 7's player. I think that may have hindered his Leinster career. Being with the internationals 7's. I think he will develop if he gets opportunities.
C.O.B has played for Leinster and was not impressive imo.
There's also Gavin Mullen in the academy who seems to be a decent prospect.
Tomane should improve as he's very experienced. I doubt he'll be as poor in the future. Lowe was dismal defending last season but he improved the more he played.

Clegg

Byrne is very young though and 10 is the hardest position to learn your trade. Yes Byrne sometimes get ruffled when under pressure but so did Sexton in the beginning. Even Beauden Barrett sometimes loses his focus when things aren't going well for his forwards.

I wanted Joey to stay and get time at 10 but that's not going to happen. Byrne now has the best opportunity to develop his game.

Heymans

Squidgy Black wrote: »

You're absolutely talking out of your hole here.

Well it,s just the impression I get from byrne. He is error prone and the best satellite to a 10’s mindset is his kicking off the tee which is inconsistent and he seems like pressure kicks unnerve him. He has his positives such as his flat passing and bringing runners into the line but I just get the feeling he goes missing when we go down a few scores. Hope he proves me wrong as the season progresses.

Heymans

durthacht wrote: »

I was going to say that Heymans was being a little harsh, but "You're absolutely talking out of your hole here" sums it up pretty well.

I thought it was a mature performance from Byrne. His decision making and passing are generally good, and his kicking is very good. He was trying to guide a new 12 through his first match for the club, with no other play makers in the back line, and he was probably a little rusty himself as I think he didn't play any pre-season games.

It's a fair criticism that he doesn't take the ball to the line very well, but hopefully he'll work on that and he was getting better at it late last season. It's a decision making skill which will develop in time and generally I prefer the fly half to not be stuck on the bottom of a ruck when avoidable.

O'Loughlin commented last week that Byrne is becoming a leader in the group so I'm not sure why Heymans thinks he doesn't direct the team on the pitch . I haven't see him avoid responsibility and his regular very good performances in the Champions Cup and Pro 14 last year prove he's up to this standard. I think Byrne is generally consistent, mature, solid, and occasionally excellent. He's doing grand in my opinion.

Perhaps I was a little harsh. He was guiding a new 12 into the game and he does have his positives. I don’t like his lack of laser focus for goal kicking which a ten should have. It’s this lack of determination and question mark over his mindset when kicking I was saying could leak into other areas of his game. He’s generally quite good at marshelling the team forward up the pitch when in posesssion but I have question marks over his mental game so far.

Heymans

Heymans wrote: »

Well it,s just the impression I get from byrne. He is error prone and the best satellite to a 10’s mindset is his kicking off the tee which is inconsistent and he seems like pressure kicks unnerve him. He has his positives such as his flat passing and bringing runners into the line but I just get the feeling he goes missing when we go down a few scores. Hope he proves me wrong as the season progresses.

Watch Exeter home last season. Again, the complete opposite of what you said and he half knocked himself out in the opening minutes after coming on early for Sexton. Going doesn't get much tougher than that.

Ran the show in an amazing comeback for Leinster in a game I often specifically point to as the moment when Leinster found the belief to win at all costs.

I guess it's all down to a matter of perspective.

Shefwedfan

Heymans wrote: »

Well it,s just the impression I get from byrne. He is error prone and the best satellite to a 10’s mindset is his kicking off the tee which is inconsistent and he seems like pressure kicks unnerve him. He has his positives such as his flat passing and bringing runners into the line but I just get the feeling he goes missing when we go down a few scores. Hope he proves me wrong as the season progresses.

To be honest, I dont think he has to prove anything to you.....


He was the most consistent 10 playing for Leinster last season in the Rabo. The year we topped the table and won it.



Against Exeter he had a brillant game. Lots more during the season but that was a stand out in an electric atmosphere with lots of pressure.



After been the forgotten man he has played his way into the Irish international set up and will probably get a cap this AI....


Many ex internationals think he could be the back up 10 to Sexton because he is very similar to Sexton, with Carberry the team has to play a different game. With Byrne they can play the same style.


But sure I guess all these pundits/coachs/internationals/fans are wrong and you are right :P

durthacht

Apologies if this has been posted before - I did a search and didn't see it - but there is a really brilliant article by Isa on his transition from rugby and plans to coach at: https://www.thesportschronicle.com/rugby/isa-nacewa-leinster-rugby/

Dubinusa

Is Barry Daly I hired badly? Any news?

Dubinusa

Oops injured.

troyzer

Taken from the Wales Online write up:

Coach John Mulvihill and backs organiser Jason Strange, the former Wales Under-20 head honcho, had spotted Australia international Joe Tomane liked to stay tight to his outside-half in defence.

That made Tomane’s centre partner Rory O’Loughlin vulnerable and the Blues exploited the extra space around him brilliantly.

I think Tomane will probably get there but the fact that it was his first Leinster cap and the Blues had already known in advance to target him suggests to me that he has form on this in previous teams.

And again, fluffing in the middle of the field is far worse than fluffing on the wing so Lowe wasn't as bad. You will always have the sideline to help you out whereas if there's one gap in the middle of the field the rest of the line has to overcompensate.

stephen_n

troyzer wrote: »

Taken from the Wales Online write up:



I think Tomane will probably get there but the fact that it was his first Leinster cap and the Blues had already known in advance to target him suggests to me that he has form on this in previous teams.

And again, fluffing in the middle of the field is far worse than fluffing on the wing so Lowe wasn't as bad. You will always have the sideline to help you out whereas if there's one gap in the middle of the field the rest of the line has to overcompensate.

I’m pretty sure that since we played Montpelier 4 times in the last two seasons, Leinster have well analyzed any weakness in Tomanes defence. They hardly brought him in, unless they reckoned it was fixable.

Former Former

Shefwedfan wrote: »

To be honest, I dont think he has to prove anything to you.....


He was the most consistent 10 playing for Leinster last season in the Rabo. The year we topped the table and won it.



Against Exeter he had a brillant game. Lots more during the season but that was a stand out in an electric atmosphere with lots of pressure.



After been the forgotten man he has played his way into the Irish international set up and will probably get a cap this AI....


Many ex internationals think he could be the back up 10 to Sexton because he is very similar to Sexton, with Carberry the team has to play a different game. With Byrne they can play the same style.


But sure I guess all these pundits/coachs/internationals/fans are wrong and you are right :P

I don't think Byrne can play the same way as Sexton tbh. In fairness, that's a huge ask of any out half but Byrne doesn't seem to have anything like the threat with ball in hand that either Sexton or Carbery do. I think when a defence gets up in his face he struggles​ to counter it.

If we're looking to play a high tempo, offloading game, then Byrne has a lot of work to do to fit into it.

Plenty still to prove

Heymans

Shefwedfan wrote: »

To be honest, I dont think he has to prove anything to you.....


He was the most consistent 10 playing for Leinster last season in the Rabo. The year we topped the table and won it.



Against Exeter he had a brillant game. Lots more during the season but that was a stand out in an electric atmosphere with lots of pressure.



After been the forgotten man he has played his way into the Irish international set up and will probably get a cap this AI....


Many ex internationals think he could be the back up 10 to Sexton because he is very similar to Sexton, with Carberry the team has to play a different game. With Byrne they can play the same style.


But sure I guess all these pundits/coachs/internationals/fans are wrong and you are right :P

It's not a case of prving anything to me. As others have said he had a very solid and progressive season last year so I don't think he has anything to prove. It's just having a 10 who can slot his goals and not tune out whenever a semi kickable kick is missed. On another note I think because of this McFadden may become Leinster MVP this season in terms of kicking those goals where Byrne might miss one or two.

All this aside thinking back on the defensive errors I think this was as much down to fitness as it was organisation. It is up to the outer players to drag players over to cover the inside channels at ruck time and the players just weren't there causing an overlap for the attacking team. Cardiff executed these well but we looked disorganised and undermanned when they broke our line. Fitness was I think a factor here as much as getting caught flat footed in defence. All these things are work onsbut it looked like the first game of the season organisationally - can't just blame Tomane for defensive issues.

The maul looked good and Byrne certainly kicked to touch very well from hand on pentalties. I think Moloney and Fardy were the core of a very impressive forward unit on the day. Ruddock did very well in getting in and around the ball at ruck time but I don't think 7 is his preferred position but he can more than do a job there for us. Thought he played very well. Josh Murphy wasn't stnding out but thought we did well in the physical exchanges that set the tone for the game. Subs did well when they came on.

I was delighted to see Ulster getting over the line against Scarlets. Really important win for them and hard fought for 80 minutes.

On the turnside I think it makes our trip this weekend a lot tougher. Scarlets as finalist last season and champions the season before in their last season under Pivac will not want to be chasing the pack at this early stage and I imagine they will be as full strength as possible and very determined. They will also have a huge axe to grind with Leinster for knocking them out of Europe and beating them in the final. This is the ideal time for them to get us at home before we're really humming with our internationals back.

I'm still really impressed with Leinsters performance at the weekend in the way they went about themselves, Cardiff were good and whilst we leaked some softer tries they made us work for all of ours. It will be interesting to see if anyone is back this week from the pool of those who didn't play a huge amount in Australia. We were good in possession but I thought second best at the breakdown, if we can tighten this up and get a bit more cohesion when clearing in numbers it should give us more of a platform.

stephen_n

Playing without an out and out seven is going to hamper our breakdown work. Ruddock was phenomenal last week, but it was still the performance of a six playing 7. It’s a pity Connors got injured, as we could have done with his speed around the pitch now. There’s no one returning yet that will change that. Conan is not the answer to any issues at the breakdown. I’d like to see Deegan start this one.

molloyjh

VDF available this weekend apparently. That'd be huge if true.

http://www.the42.ie/josh-van-der-flier-leinster-ireland-4216176-Sep2018/

molloyjh

I'm going to guess that we'll see

Byrne Tracy Porter
Molony Toner
Ruddock Conan VDF

McGrath Byrne
Tomane ROL
Lowe Dave Byrne

Cronin, Byrne, Bent, Kearney, Doris, JGP, Reid, McFadden

Richie_Rich89

molloyjh wrote: »

I'm going to guess that we'll see

Byrne Tracy Porter
Molony Toner
Ruddock Conan VDF

McGrath Byrne
Tomane ROL
Lowe Dave Byrne

Cronin, Byrne, Bent, Kearney, Doris, JGP, Reid, McFadden

Bit uninspiring. Think I'd make a few changes

stephen_n

molloyjh wrote: »

VDF available this weekend apparently. That'd be huge if true.

http://www.the42.ie/josh-van-der-flier-leinster-ireland-4216176-Sep2018/

That reads a bit like a week too soon.

molloyjh

stephen_n wrote: »

That reads a bit like a week too soon.

Fogarty was quite explicit that he was available for selection. If he had said that they are hoping he'll be available then I'd agree, but he's out and out said that he is available. So hopefully he is.

errlloyd

Was it Henshaw who spent most of the spring injured? Any chance we could see him back earlyish because of that?

errlloyd

errlloyd wrote: »

Was it Henshaw who spent most of the spring injured? Any chance we could see him back earlyish because of that?

He was but he played most of the tour. Ringrose only played one game so he could be in the mix if fit either.

That said, both are fairly nailed on and are going to play a lot of rugby this year. I see them both as nearly guaranteed starters so I think anyone in that bracket is going to have a lot of their managed minutes earlier in the season.

Would be great to have VDF back, he generally doesn't need much game time and it would significantly improve the effectiveness of our backrow.

Dog Botherer

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

Bit uninspiring. Think I'd make a few changes

Only Leinster could field a team with 11 internationals, another 4 on the bench, the most exciting winger in the league, and have it labeled "uninspiring" :pac:

Dubinusa

I thought Ringrose picked up a foot injury in Oz and was out til Oct?

Dubinusa

According to the indo, VDF has only started full training. I doubt he'll be available this week.

thomond2006

Dubinusa wrote: »

According to the indo, VDF has only started full training. I doubt he'll be available this week.

Players at Munster have played after just a week of "full training".

Interested Observer

thomond2006 wrote: »

Players at Munster have played after just a week of "full training".

How about after a week of full training after 6 months injured?

thomond2006

Interested Observer wrote: »

How about after a week of full training after 6 months injured?

I can't say for sure.

Clegg

Vintage Gerry

While Blackrock and the Leinster academy can each claim some small slice of Carbery, his family and rugby roots are, essentially, from Athy, which is not a million miles from Munster.

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/gerry-thornley-carbery-at-munster-looks-a-little-wrong-but-feels-very-right-1.3617195?mode=amp