Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread X: [****]

Clegg

Clegg wrote: »

Vintage Gerry




https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/gerry-thornley-carbery-at-munster-looks-a-little-wrong-but-feels-very-right-1.3617195?mode=amp

To be fair, loads of Leinster players have their roots in other provinces. We absolutely benefit from migration towards the Dublin area and Carbery is no different.

That's not taking anything away from the absolutely world class grass roots and academy setup Leinster rugby has created. Leinster is probably one of the top rugby international producing hot beds in the world outside New Zealand, but the other provinces have certainly suffered a little bit for Leinster's gain.

Buer

Interesting take on Carbery's move. GT seems to be trying to argue that the move might be longer than the currently contracted 2 years.

I think the only surprise would be if Carbery actually comes back to Leinster in 2 years.

thomond2006

Buer wrote: »

Interesting take on Carbery's move. GT seems to be trying to argue that the move might be longer than the currently contracted 2 years.

I think the only surprise would be if Carbery actually comes back to Leinster in 2 years.

In the ideal world Ross Byrne develops into the starter at Leinster once Sexton winds down.

degsie

Apologies, not sure where to post this. Can anybody tell me where you collect Leinster season tickets from? Is there an office in the RDS? Thanks.

Buer

thomond2006 wrote: »

In the ideal world Ross Byrne develops into the starter at Leinster once Sexton winds down.

I think that's going to be almost certainly the case whether Byrne develops into a top quality player or not. I don't envisage the IRFU permitting Leinster to sign a NIQ outhalf nor do I think they'll be able to find one that's discernably better than Byrne (within their budget).

He's not going to be another Sexton but he doesn't need to be. If he can be the player he currently is but improve his goal kicking and make slight improvements in his all round attacking game (nothing beyond the normal increments one should expect with experience), I think that will almost be enough to ensure he's the starting 10 after Sexton.

Exclamation Marc

degsie wrote: »

Apologies, not sure where to post this. Can anybody tell me where you collect Leinster season tickets from? Is there an office in the RDS? Thanks.

Have you been specifically requested to collect them? They're being posted out this week by Leinster so should be received soon.

Generally if you've anything to collect from Leinster, it's from their offices in UCD but you'd have to arrange that rather than turning up for it.

degsie

Exclamation Marc wrote: »

Have you been specifically requested to collect them? They're being posted out this week by Leinster so should be received soon.

Generally if you've anything to collect from Leinster, it's from their offices in UCD but you'd have to arrange that rather than turning up for it.

Yes, they've been ordered and paid for, but require collection. The office is in UCD??

prawnsambo

degsie wrote: »

Yes, they've been ordered and paid for, but require collection. The office is in UCD??

Yep. Through the carpark opposite the sports centre afaik.



Edit: Yep. Turn left at the first roundabout from the Clonskeagh entrance, then left again, go through the carpark and follow the road around the block anti-clockwise. It's on the end of the block facing Clonskeagh road.

Leinster Rugby Reception:

"There's yer man whose always standing around outside, now he's taking pictures of the front door".

Exclamation Marc

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Leinster Rugby Reception:

"There's yer man whose always standing around outside, now he's taking pictures of the front door".

"It's for an anonymous poster online, I swear. It's not for the personal collection."

Exclamation Marc

prawnsambo wrote: »

Yep. Through the carpark opposite the sports centre afaik.

Edit: Yep. Turn left at the first roundabout from the Clonskeagh entrance, then left again, go through the carpark and follow the road around the block anti-clockwise. It's on the end of the block facing Clonskeagh road.

Yep that's the one. Parking can be a pain and it's pay and display if you can even find a spot. UCD parking patrol are like jackals so don't try and get away without paying.

Exclamation Marc

Exclamation Marc wrote: »

"It's for an anonymous poster online, I swear. It's not for the personal collection."

Prawnsambo's bedroom wall looks like if you type Garry Ringrose into google and then click 'images'.

prawnsambo

Deleted User wrote: »

Prawnsambo's bedroom wall looks like if you type Garry Ringrose into google and then click 'images'.

Can I not just know the area well? And not because of the location of Leinster's HQ? :P

errlloyd

Buer wrote: »

Interesting take on Carbery's move. GT seems to be trying to argue that the move might be longer than the currently contracted 2 years.

I think the only surprise would be if Carbery actually comes back to Leinster in 2 years.

I really want him to come back. I was pretty bitter that he came on and didn't take over the goal kicking! What the hell is the point if he's not kicking?

errlloyd

errlloyd wrote: »

I really want him to come back. I was pretty bitter that he came on and didn't take over the goal kicking! What the hell is the point if he's not kicking?

He took one from the sidelines. Any number of reasons why he wasn't kicking though, perhaps they want JJ to build his confidence in live games and are comfortable with Joey taking the tougher ones.

Thought Carbery looked composed when he came on, the game had slowed right down though so nothing to take from it.

Glasgow this weekend will be a cracking fixture, it will give us a good idea of where the two teams are, though I think Munster might have a bit too much up front.

I suspect whoever starts at 10 will be seen to be in the driving seat when the team is announced.

Buer

errlloyd wrote: »

I really want him to come back. I was pretty bitter that he came on and didn't take over the goal kicking! What the hell is the point if he's not kicking?

It's rare that you see the starting outhalf immediately taken off kicking duties unless they're having a mare. JJH has a bit of support from the Munster coaches at this point. Remember he was given the nod for the knock outs in the Pro14 in May.

Carbery is almost certainly going to be the starting outhalf but if he struggles at all, I would not be shocked to see himself and JJH have a bit of a battle for the jersey, especially if JJH rediscovers his ability to kick goals like he did before Northampton.

prawnsambo

prawnsambo wrote: »

Can I not just know the area well? And not because of the location of Leinster's HQ? :P

So with Matt O'Connor sacked on the spot by Leicester has anyone changed their mind about his tenure here?

I felt that the constant excuses to the media in his second season and some dishonesty about team selection combined with the home and away loss to Dragons were the main catalysts for me personally thinking his tenure should end prematurely as it did.

There has been lots of talk about his coaching style, relationship with players and howis apparent laxness but the situation in Leicester points to him having missed some of pre season (with or without permission) and the team effectively not being prepared for the season opener by his own admission.

Having watched some of that game even the commentators were saying how Exeter didn't need their backs, the pack were so dominant in all aspects of play that they could hold onto the ball and score 40 almost unanswered points.

I was slightly uncomfortable with his sacking at Leinster because it was quite ruthless but in hindsight almost certainly the right call.

prawnsambo

Deleted User wrote: »

I have no idea what that reference means. :P

Former Former

[Deleted User] wrote: »

So with Matt O'Connor sacked on the spot by Leicester has anyone changed their mind about his tenure here?

I felt that the constant excuses to the media in his second season and some dishonesty about team selection combined with the home and away loss to Dragons were the main catalysts for me personally thinking his tenure should end prematurely as it did.

There has been lots of talk about his coaching style, relationship with players and howis apparent laxness but the situation in Leicester points to him having missed some of pre season (with or without permission) and the team effectively not being prepared for the season opener by his own admission.

Having watched some of that game even the commentators were saying how Exeter didn't need their backs, the pack were so dominant in all aspects of play that they could hold onto the ball and score 40 almost unanswered points.

I was slightly uncomfortable with his sacking at Leinster because it was quite ruthless but in hindsight almost certainly the right call.

I don't think something that happened in 2018 changes anything that happened in 2015 tbh.

There's a lot more to the Leicester situation than we know. No coach gets sacked after the first game unless there's a lot of other stuff going on too.

As for his time here, yeah it was not good but he had a lot of disadvantages too. We lost some incredible players and they simply weren't replaced by anything like the same quality. He didn't handle it well but he had a very difficult job, following on from Joe Schmidt but with a weakened hand.

The guy didn't have a good time of it, he got the bullet, let's move on.

Clegg

Deleted User wrote: »

So with Matt O'Connor sacked on the spot by Leicester has anyone changed their mind about his tenure here?

I felt that the constant excuses to the media in his second season and some dishonesty about team selection combined with the home and away loss to Dragons were the main catalysts for me personally thinking his tenure should end prematurely as it did.

There has been lots of talk about his coaching style, relationship with players and howis apparent laxness but the situation in Leicester points to him having missed some of pre season (with or without permission) and the team effectively not being prepared for the season opener by his own admission.

Having watched some of that game even the commentators were saying how Exeter didn't need their backs, the pack were so dominant in all aspects of play that they could hold onto the ball and score 40 almost unanswered points.

I was slightly uncomfortable with his sacking at Leinster because it was quite ruthless but in hindsight almost certainly the right call.

I've no time for the argument that MoC was hard done by at Leinster. I agree that his take over wasn't ideal as it coincided with the loss of Sexton, BoD and Nacewa. In those circumstances a decline in results was acceptable. Any team would be badly effected by the loss of 3 world class players. So winning the Pro 12 in his first season was a commendable achievement in those circumstances.

What was unacceptable was the decline in the players skill levels. I remember reading somewhere that MoC coached the players to pass to the inside shoulder. You reduced the risk of knocking the ball on from a flat pass, but it slowed down our style of play when you had to check your run all the time for a pass that was slightly behind you. We were an awful team to watch. We were a side whose onnly effective tactic was boshing our way through opposition forwards. There was no subtlety at all. The only player who really excelled under MoC was Ruddock. A massive unit who could take a hit on the gain line and keep going.

Then there was his recruitment policy. He wanted to bring in expensive imports rather than use what we had in the academy. That was never going to fly with the fan base or the IRFU. Luke McGrath missed out on a seasons worth of development. His selection policy was just all over the place. The short term signing of a washed up Lote Tuqiri was a low point. He never trusted his academy the way he should have.

molloyjh

Former Former wrote: »

I don't think something that happened in 2018 changes anything that happened in 2015 tbh.

There's a lot more to the Leicester situation than we know. No coach gets sacked after the first game unless there's a lot of other stuff going on too.

As for his time here, yeah it was not good but he had a lot of disadvantages too. We lost some incredible players and they simply weren't replaced by anything like the same quality. He didn't handle it well but he had a very difficult job, following on from Joe Schmidt but with a weakened hand.

The guy didn't have a good time of it, he got the bullet, let's move on.

Yeah but in between poor spells at Leinster and Leicester, he also had a (short) poor spell at the Reds. I get there were issues with the squad, but we performed below our ability fairly regularly even considering this. He did well as attack coach in his first stint at Leicester. Maybe the guy just isn't cut out for the top job?

I'd imagine he was on thin ice after last season. It was the first time Leicester didn't make the knock-outs in the Premiership and they also came last in their pool. That things went so badly at the start of this season (pre-season included) was probably the straw that broke the camels back.

Former Former

molloyjh wrote: »

Yeah but in between poor spells at Leinster and Leicester, he also had a (short) poor spell at the Reds. I get there were issues with the squad, but we performed below our ability fairly regularly even considering this. He did well as attack coach in his first stint at Leicester. Maybe the guy just isn't cut out for the top job?

I'd imagine he was on thin ice after last season. It was the first time Leicester didn't make the knock-outs in the Premiership and they also came last in their pool. That things went so badly at the start of this season (pre-season included) was probably the straw that broke the camels back.

In fairness to him, Leicester were doing pretty badly when he took over, he steadied the ship somewhat. They only missed the playoffs last year on points difference after an incredible injury crisis during the season.

The Reds haven't​ exactly gone on to great things since he left either...

Look, I wouldn't want to see him back at Leinster but I don't think he deserves the grudges being held against him here. I think he was to some extent a victim of circumstance and a few things going a different way could made a huge difference.

arsebiscuits1

Clegg wrote: »

I've no time for the argument that MoC was hard done by at Leinster. I agree that his take over wasn't ideal as it coincided with the loss of Sexton, BoD and Nacewa. In those circumstances a decline in results was acceptable. Any team would be badly effected by the loss of 3 world class players. So winning the Pro 12 in his first season was a commendable achievement in those circumstances.

What was unacceptable was the decline in the players skill levels. I remember reading somewhere that MoC coached the players to pass to the inside shoulder. You reduced the risk of knocking the ball on from a flat pass, but it slowed down our style of play when you had to check your run all the time for a pass that was slightly behind you. We were an awful team to watch. We were a side whose onnly effective tactic was boshing our way through opposition forwards. There was no subtlety at all. The only player who really excelled under MoC was Ruddock. A massive unit who could take a hit on the gain line and keep going.

Then there was his recruitment policy. He wanted to bring in expensive imports rather than use what we had in the academy. That was never going to fly with the fan base or the IRFU. Luke McGrath missed out on a seasons worth of development. His selection policy was just all over the place. The short term signing of a washed up Lote Tuqiri was a low point. He never trusted his academy the way he should have.

We had BOD for his first season. He played 14 games.

I agree with everything else.

My main issue was MOCs tenure coincided with Ireland winning back to back 6 nations titles. Both those years Leinster had a fairly heavy contribution to the Ireland team an were playing incredible rugby.

They'd subsequently come back to the Leinster setup and just look totally off the pace. It definitely wasn't a fitness issue. It was quite clearly a coaching issue

Former Former

Former Former wrote: »

In fairness to him, Leicester were doing pretty badly when he took over, he steadied the ship somewhat. They only missed the playoffs last year on points difference after an incredible injury crisis during the season.

The Reds haven't​ exactly gone on to great things since he left either...

Look, I wouldn't want to see him back at Leinster but I don't think he deserves the grudges being held against him here. I think he was to some extent a victim of circumstance and a few things going a different way could made a huge difference.

I've no grudge against him at all and felt a bit uneasy when he was sacked but hearing the more recent news sheds the decision makers at the time in a more vindicated light.

It was a sacking that wasn't without its criticisms if you recall.

CatFromHue

Clegg wrote: »

Then there was his recruitment policy. He wanted to bring in expensive imports rather than use what we had in the academy. That was never going to fly with the fan base or the IRFU. Luke McGrath missed out on a seasons worth of development. His selection policy was just all over the place. The short term signing of a washed up Lote Tuqiri was a low point. He never trusted his academy the way he should have.

I've mentioned it on here before but was the Academy as trustworthy then as it was a couple of years later?

Just because a guy is playing great at 23/24 doesn't mean he would be the playing the same at 20/21.

If you look at some of the guys he didn't trust, Macken and Madigan (yes I know he wasn't in the academy but he was a young player) being two that spring to mind, they haven't gone on to great things since.

prawnsambo

prawnsambo wrote: »

I have no idea what that reference means. :P

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0054167/

Clegg

Scarlets are in a bit of trouble for the weekends game. Rhys Patchell went off with a head injury against Ulster and his replacement Dan Jones also got injured. So could be down to their 3rd choice flyhalf. Halfpenny, Parkes and Jake Ball are expected to return but Jonathan Davies will miss the game. Pulled out before the Ulster game with a hamstring injury and hasn't recovered yet.

Dubinusa

Didn't M.O.C bring Kane Douglas to Leinster? Douglas was very underwhelming and looked off the pace. If I recall, he played Gopperth ahead of Madigan and I believe that was a mistake.
I may be wrong though.

Buer

Scarlets signed Angus O'Brien over the summer. He's no world beater but he has plenty of appearances at 10 for the Dragons under his belt.

I would think that even allowing for Patchell and JD being absent, their starting side this weekend is going to be better again than the one they originally named against Ulster.

I'd expect Gareth Davies to come back into the starting line up too with SHC moving to the bench. I don't see us coping with the return of Davies and Parkes in our back line defence, to be honest.

I'd say there's a decent chance of coming home empty handed. If I had been offered 5 points from these two games a month ago however, I'd probably have taken it.