Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread X: [****]

troyzer

Does anyone know ultimately why he went to Munster as opposed to Ulster which was the original rumour?

Commanchie

troyzer wrote: »

Does anyone know ultimately why he went to Munster as opposed to Ulster which was the original rumour?

Ulster was in complete disarray id imagine, and has been since Les Kiss. Logey walked, Mangerless, Players allegedly not happy after the Jackson Olding case.

But sure it was all just rumour.

durthacht

Commanchie wrote: »

Season before last yes. Not last year when Johnny was out quite a bit that was the time to be giving the game time.

Byrne kept him out cause Joey wasnt being considered as a 10 as much as he should of been as Tech IRFU were in Leos ear that was plain when the move was discussed.

IRFU will be the ones with the final say where a contract is played out. They are the employer at the end of the day. Joey isnt in Thomond of his own accord there was a push from the IRFU IMO.

So the IRFU were in Leo's ear persuading him to not give Carbery game time at 10 even though he was their back up 10? Even though Schmidt said Carbery needed to be playing 10, the IRFU were still persuading Leinster to not play him there???

#CrazyConspiracyTheories

Also Jimmy Hoffa is buried in Lansdowne Road and Philip Browne was on the Grassy Knoll when Kennedy was shot.

Commanchie

durthacht wrote: »

So the IRFU were in Leo's ear persuading him to not give Carbery game time at 10 even though he was their back up 10? Even though Schmidt said Carbery needed to be playing 10, the IRFU were still persuading Leinster to not play him there???

#CrazyConspiracyTheories

If the IRFU was really pushing for Joey to play 10 hed of been in. Hes a better fly half the Ross.

stephen_n

Commanchie wrote: »

IRFU will be the ones with the final say where a contract is played out. They are the employer at the end of the day. Joey isnt in Thomond of his own accord there was a push from the IRFU IMO.

Yes indeed, there was a push towards Ulster, which didn’t happen.

Buer

People are right to say I shouldn't read much into the quote. As I posted, he said Leinster was the best place for him late last year and look how that turned out. I found it interesting largely because it corroborates what I believe. Obviously, many people don't hold the same opinion but I think there's an element of wishful thinking in that.

Why do I think he won't be back? Well, he might well be at some point but I'd be shocked if he didn't sign at least one more contract with Munster after the existing one. The reasons for that would be:

He left for game time. Byrne was the preferred option by the end of last season and will continue to develop. With Carbery likely to be 22 for Ireland, Byrne will probably get just as much game time at outhalf as Carbery despite being behind Sexton at Leinster. If Carbery was to return, I think he'd only do so in the knowledge that he's returning to a starting spot. I don't see him leaving the one of the top teams in Europe as first choice to come to Leinster and fight for a starting spot.

Sexton will be 34 at the end of his current contract. He'll be close to 35 but I could very easily see him extending by 1 year and winding down for a season as a steadying hand alongside Byrne. I don't see Carbery wanting to come near Leinster if Sexton is still present. Carbery is going to be sitting down to negotiate at the same time as Sexton which is only about 14-15 months away.

Leinster have a few promising young outhalves on the books. They're undoubtedly going to see some game time between now and the end of the RWC (when contract negotiations will kick off). With the likes of Harry Byrne and Ciaran Frawley coming through, Leinster are potentially going to have 3 senior outhalves by the 2020/21 season (4 possibly if Sexton signs for another year)

Lastly, why would the IRFU want it? Stephen posted above that they don't care what the provinces think and I'd largely agree. That's exactly why I don't see them encouraging Carbery to come back. Why would they want two useful resources competing at the same province? Carbery at Munster works far better for them. That's why he's there right now.

Munster might have a glut of outhalves but the short term future isn't rosy for them in that position. TB looks like he could be done. Keatley looks like he is persona non grata. Hanrahan looks to be well liked by JVG but has had a pretty poor start to the season and looks like he may never be a genuine option at 10 for them. Bill Johnston looks to be a talented guy and I think most people would like to see him involved to some extent but he has never started a game for the senior team. Ben Healy is the only outhalf in their academy. Options are not great for the short term future so I'd be surprised if Munster had any other realistic option in 18 months where the IRFU would sit back and quietly let Carbery leave.

arsebiscuits1

Commanchie wrote: »

If the IRFU was really pushing for Joey to play 10 hed of been in. Hes a better fly half the Ross.

So..... the IRFU were pushing for him to play elsewhere? Is that your point?

He's played the overwhelming majority of his test rugby at 10.

stephen_n

The only thing not covered in that is comptetiveness. Players value winning and if Munster fail to provide a platform for Carberry to do that. He might prefer to fight for his place at Leinster if they are more competitive.

irishbucsfan

Commanchie wrote: »

If the IRFU was really pushing for Joey to play 10 hed of been in. Hes a better fly half the Ross.

Nah, he’s not

Synode

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Nah, he’s not

Yeah, he is

wise7

Commanchie wrote: »

If the IRFU was really pushing for Joey to play 10 hed of been in. Hes a better fly half the Ross.

Based on what evidence in terms of starts/80 mins in key competitive games at 10?

Shefwedfan

Commanchie wrote: »

If the IRFU was really pushing for Joey to play 10 hed of been in. Hes a better fly half the Ross.

Is he? he hasn't really shown yet


Ross Byrne has shown more at 10, Joey has shown real talent but at 15 not at 10.



Not saying that because he is gone. He had a few games last season towards the end at 10 and didn't really ignite the place.


Byrne came on against Exeter and had a great game. Plus other great games in the Pro14

Former Former

Ah FFS.

Leo nearly always picked Ross at 10 ahead of Joey

But Joey got the nod for the 22 jersey in all the key matches

But Leo didn't trust Joey to start

But a lot of the time Joey was needed at full-back

But Ross controls the game better

But Joey has far more talent, he just needs to develop

But Leinster chose to keep Ross and let Joey go.

But Joe Schmidt rates Joey higher and I think we can trust him.

But Joe never gives Carbery more than a few minutes.

But he started the first test in Australia

Round and round we go. Jump on or jump off wherever you want, let's not pretend there's a "right" answer to it.

Former Former

Former Former wrote: »

Ah FFS.

Leo nearly always picked Ross at 10 ahead of Joey

But Joey got the nod for the 22 jersey in all the key matches

But Leo didn't trust Joey to start

But a lot of the time Joey was needed at full-back

But Ross controls the game better

But Joey has far more talent, he just needs to develop

But Leinster chose to keep Ross and let Joey go.

But Joe Schmidt rates Joey higher and I think we can trust him.

But Joe never gives Carbery more than a few minutes.

But he started the first test in Australia

Round and round we go. Jump on or jump off wherever you want, let's not pretend there's a "right" answer to it.

I don't think any of them are great thread titles to be honest.

Maybe Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread X: Ah FFS, but I'm not sure everyone will automatically think of Five F**king Stars when they read it.

impr0v

When you play as flat to the line as Joey wants to you have to be able to take the inevitable hits and I'm not sure that he's carrying enough weight to be able to do so. But if he bulks up, then he loses some of his ability to step.

Glasgow went out of their way to lamp him marginally late at least twice at the weekend. He stayed down for 30 seconds after one of them. I wonder if he can weather that kinda stuff over the longer term.

Richie_Rich89

Murray Kinsella's analys of Gareth Davies's try and Leinster's defence http://www.the42.ie/stuart-lancaster-leinster-scarlets-try-4229419-Sep2018/#comments

Looks to me as if Ruddock not trusting Tomane and feeling he had to stick near him was a factor in him chasing across too fast and consequently getting stepped on the inside

Rigor Mortis

This wouldnt be an attempt to have a crack at another import would it. Not your style at all.

Interestingly, Tomane is not mentioned at all in the article. So clearly Kinsella isnt seeing blame there. If as you believe, Ruddock decides not to trust the defenders around him, thats his blame, not Tomane's.

Buer

Looks to me as if the best attacking scrum half in Europe beats a forward in open space on turnover ball.

Richie_Rich89

Buer wrote: »

Looks to me as if the best attacking scrum half in Europe beats a forward in open space on turnover ball.

It's Parkes who steps Ruddock. Looks like a good 12

Buer

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

It's Parkes who steps Ruddock. Looks like a good 12

Apologies, it is Parkes. He has also been one of the best players and attackers in the league over the past couple of years. Beating Ruddock is nothing to do with Tomane.

Richie_Rich89

Buer wrote: »

Apologies, it is Parkes. He has also been one of the best players and attackers in the league over the past couple of years. Beating Ruddock is nothing to do with Tomane.

Only Rhys Ruddock knows if that's the case.

Tomane has to earn the trust of his teammates so they don't overcompensate and leave gaps elsewhere

Podge_irl

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

Only Rhys Ruddock knows if that's the case.

Tomane has to earn the trust of his teammates so they don't overcompensate and leave gaps elsewhere

If they overcompensate it is their own fault, not Tomane's.

salmocab

Podge_irl wrote: »

If they overcompensate it is their own fault, not Tomane's.

Why bother? he wouldn’t have made the point at all if Tomane was Irish.

Commanchie

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

Only Rhys Ruddock knows if that's the case.

Tomane has to earn the trust of his teammates so they don't overcompensate and leave gaps elsewhere

Its not Tomane at all if his line mistrust him and over compensate

Former Former

I think we can all agree that if Jimmy O'Brien had been there, that try does not get conceded.

#tomaneout

troyzer

Former Former wrote: »

I think we can all agree that if Jimmy O'Brien had been there, that try does not get conceded.

#tomaneout

Has O'Brien ever been capped at senior level?

titanfanfam

troyzer wrote: »

Has O'Brien ever been capped at senior level?

Not outside friendlies.

sydthebeat

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

Looks to me as if Ruddock not trusting Tomane and feeling he had to stick near him was a factor in him chasing across too fast and consequently getting stepped on the inside

turn over ball, attackers have space out wide.....
you defend inside-out on a drift.

Therefore the blame is squarely between Ruddock and Conan.

Zzippy

https://twitter.com/RossOCK/status/1039767919155204096

troyzer

Zzippy wrote: »

https://twitter.com/RossOCK/status/1039767919155204096

Ouch.