Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread X: [****]

thegreycity · 19-09-2018 11:59am

jmn51927 wrote: »

Pure Nonsense being spoken from a blinded bias disillusioned Leinster fan who is in a state of denial with his blue tinted glasses.

So you don't agree?

molloyjh · 19-09-2018 12:07pm

At both loosehead and tighthead, Leinster are clearly ahead of Munster. Munsters options at 2 are definitely better at the core skills of that position, but then Cronin also brings something very different to the table too.

At lock Leinster have 3 proven internationals. Beirne looks really good, but as FF said there is still an element of wait and see with him as he hasn't had the same opportunity at the higher levels. Kleyn is excellent too, but I don't think he brings the same dynamism to the table that Fardy does. Both he and Ryan can do the dog work, but also bring footwork and offloading to the table too. For me the Leinster second row is at least far more proven than the Munster one, if not clearly stronger overall.

In the back row Leinster have 4 proven internationals on the flanks. Sure POM is really good and Stander brings a lot too (although for me he's a top quality blindside more-so than an 8). Cloete has shown a lot at openside too in terms of his jackling as well as his aggression in the loose, but again he isn't proven at higher levels just yet. On the other hand Leinster have a top quality blindside in Ruddock as well as ridiculous depth at blindside with SOB, VDF and Leavy. You can argue the merits of each individual player, but as a unit Leinsters is world class. And is proven as such. I'm not sure Munsters is in the same way. They've consistently lost the back row battle in recent fixtures between the 2 sides.

In many ways a lot of the Munster pack are really good at the core roles they play. But in Leinster we've got guys who can deliver there, but also add in other areas. Look at Porters ability to turn ball over on the deck or the interplay we've seen from our locks for example. For me that's really where the point of difference is. We might see Beirne bring a lot of that to Munster himself, but we'll have to wait and see there.

Clegg · 19-09-2018 12:08pm

Murray Kinsella has done an analysis of Ringrose's performance from last Saturday and how he's developing his game to include being an effective first receiver of the ball. Also highlighted is Henshaw stepping in at 10 as well. Lancaster and Cullen want all the centres to develop their creative game on top of their exemplary line running games.

http://www.the42.ie/garry-ringrose-analysis-first-receiver-defence-4242607-Sep2018/

arsebiscuits1 · 19-09-2018 12:19pm

jmn51927 wrote: »

OMITTED ALL THE ****E

Remember all the semis and finals that Munster have won in recent seasons thanks to a top class pack?

Me either

19-09-2018 12:24pm

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

Remember all the semis and finals that Munster have won in recent seasons thanks to a top class pack?

Me either

Jaysus, the build up thread will write itself at this rate!

prawnsambo · 19-09-2018 12:33pm

molloyjh wrote: »

Anyone else getting deja vu?

He only has four posts to his name and two of them are duplicates. Pretty strange.

prawnsambo · 19-09-2018 12:36pm

Speaking of the European jersey, this is interesting.

Richie_Rich89 · 19-09-2018 1:20pm

Former Former wrote: »

The question for Beirne is whether he can make the step up from Pro14 star to European/international level. Fardy, Ryan and Toner are proven at the highest levels of the game, Beirne simply is not. Jury out.

Fardy and Beirne probably have similar number of games played in the second row at Super Rugby/European level and Internationally

prawnsambo · 19-09-2018 2:07pm

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

Fardy and Beirne probably have similar number of games played in the second row at Super Rugby/European level and Internationally

Probably? Scott Fardy has 39 caps for the Wallabies. He has 97 Super Rugby caps and 24 with Leinster. Tadhg Beirne has all of 63 senior rugby caps plus 2 international.

Former Former · 19-09-2018 2:08pm

prawnsambo wrote: »

Probably? Scott Fardy has 39 caps for the Wallabies. He has 97 Super Rugby caps and 24 with Leinster. Tadhg Beirne has all of 63 senior rugby caps plus 2 international.

Yer man is going to come back and say that Fardy played most/all his international rugby at 6, not at second row.

Snore.

Richie_Rich89 · 19-09-2018 2:09pm

prawnsambo wrote: »

Probably? Scott Fardy has 39 caps for the Wallabies. He has 97 Super Rugby caps and 24 with Leinster. Tadhg Beirne has all of 63 senior rugby caps plus 2 international.

How many in the second row?

Buer · 19-09-2018 2:09pm

prawnsambo wrote: »

Probably? Scott Fardy has 39 caps for the Wallabies. He has 97 Super Rugby caps and 24 with Leinster. Tadhg Beirne has all of 63 senior rugby caps plus 2 international.

Fardy barely played second row before coming here. All of his test caps are at 6.

19-09-2018 2:09pm

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

Fardy and Beirne probably have similar number of games played in the second row at Super Rugby/European level and Internationally

prawnsambo wrote: »

Probably? Scott Fardy has 39 caps for the Wallabies. He has 97 Super Rugby caps and 24 with Leinster. Tadhg Beirne has all of 63 senior rugby caps plus 2 international.

I think anti_foreigner89 was being specific to playing in the second row.

arsebiscuits1 · 19-09-2018 2:09pm

prawnsambo wrote: »

Probably? Scott Fardy has 39 caps for the Wallabies. He has 97 Super Rugby caps and 24 with Leinster. Tadhg Beirne has all of 63 senior rugby caps plus 2 international.

Aye. But very few of Fardys caps prior to Leinster came at second row.

I'm not sure he started any of his Test matches at lock.

Now having said that. He's still the standout second row in Europe. Comfortably

Richie_Rich89 · 19-09-2018 2:10pm

Former Former wrote: »

Yer man is going to come back and say that Fardy played most/all his international rugby at 6, not at second row.

Snore.

This discussion is about the second row.

Former Former · 19-09-2018 2:10pm

Former Former wrote: »

Yer man is going to come back and say that Fardy played most/all his international rugby at 6, not at second row.

Snore.

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

How many in the second row?

Yes!

errlloyd · 19-09-2018 2:11pm

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

Now having said that. He's still the standout second row in Europe. Comfortably

Nakarawa is the best second row in Europe.

Richie_Rich89 · 19-09-2018 2:12pm

James Ryan is the best second row in Europe by quite a margin

Clegg · 19-09-2018 2:13pm

I get what Richie is saying with regards to Fardy and Beirne's experience playing in the row. Fardy's caps are from playing at 6 for Australia. He's relatively inexperienced in the second row. But in terms of big game experience there's no comparison. Fardy started the World Cup final ffs.

arsebiscuits1 · 19-09-2018 2:13pm

errlloyd wrote: »

Nakarawa is the best second row in Europe.

One of the standout second rows in Europe so.

Buer · 19-09-2018 2:14pm

errlloyd wrote: »

Nakarawa is the best second row in Europe.

He's the most exciting second row to watch play but I would happily take a number of second rows ahead of him for Leinster.

errlloyd · 19-09-2018 2:18pm

This is OT, but Nakarawa and Retallick start in the Row on my all country World 15.

Furlong
Marx
Evans (of this I am unsure)
Retallick
Nakarawa
SOB
Gourdon
Read

Murray
Sexton

Raka
Fofanna
Crotty
Daly
Hogg

thegreycity · 19-09-2018 2:19pm

Second row

pickarooney · 19-09-2018 2:20pm

errlloyd wrote: »

This is OT, but Nakarawa and Retallick start in the Row on my all time World 15.

Furlong
Marx
Evans (of this I am unsure)
Retallick
Nakarawa
SOB
Gourdon
Read

Murray
Sexton

Raka
Fofanna
Crotty
Daly
Hogg

Seems fairly recency-biased, no?
I'd probably have Carter and McCaw in there myself.

Clegg · 19-09-2018 2:20pm

Nakarawa is world class. His ball handling and offloading cements that status. But even if you took those extras away you're still left with a player that excels at the basics of second row play.

Richie_Rich89 · 19-09-2018 2:21pm

Former Former wrote: »

Yes!

Fardy has been excellent in the second row for Leinster but you can't point to his Super Rugby and International caps as if they mean he's a more proven operator at lock than Beirne for the simple reason that hardly any of these caps came at second row. Beirne could have more caps at lock at Super/Euro level than Fardy has.

Pretty simple stuff

irishbucsfan · 19-09-2018 2:21pm

errlloyd wrote: »

This is OT, but Nakarawa and Retallick start in the Row on my all time World 15.

Furlong
Marx
Evans (of this I am unsure)
Retallick
Nakarawa
SOB
Gourdon
Read

Murray
Sexton

Raka
Fofanna
Crotty
Daly
Hogg

Surely this is current not all time?

Former Former · 19-09-2018 2:30pm

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

Fardy has been excellent in the second row for Leinster but you can't point to his Super Rugby and International caps as if they mean he's a more proven operator at lock than Beirne for the simple reason that hardly any of these caps came at second row. Beirne could have more caps at lock at Super/Euro level than Fardy has.

Pretty simple stuff

He doesn't.

As you say, pretty simple.

slingerz · 19-09-2018 2:32pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Certainly wasn’t the standout second row any time he played Leinster

The players player of the year.

Richie_Rich89 · 19-09-2018 2:35pm

Former Former wrote: »

He doesn't.

As you say, pretty simple.

Go on then. What are the numbers?

Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread X: [****]

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