Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread X: [****]

Former Former

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

Go on then. What are the numbers?

I am not naive enough to think that any facts are going to get you to change your position. You cannot change an irrational opinion with rational arguments.

Richie_Rich89

Former Former wrote: »

I am not naive enough to think that any facts are going to get you to change your position. You cannot change an irrational opinion with rational arguments.

I'd be interested to know the numbers

errlloyd

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Surely this is current not all time?

Sorry yeah, I dunno why I said all time. That is ridiculously current.

Former Former

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

I'd be interested to know the numbers

Would you under any circumstances say "oh, that's interesting, I guess you were right?"

irishbucsfan

slingerz wrote: »

The players player of the year.

For the Pro 14. We’re talking about him taking a step up above that level, no one is doubting he’s a great Pro 14 player.

errlloyd

errlloyd wrote: »

Sorry yeah, I dunno why I said all time. That is ridiculously current.

Sure...

The Parish King

Aside from all this second row conversation, Ross Byrne is on Luke Fitz’s podcast this week and is worth a listen.

Interesting that he sees his place kicking as a strength of his despite its erratic nature, and also recognises the fact that he needs to get to 80+%.

This may not make sense, but I get the impression from listening to him that he has a lot of self belief, but possibly lacks the confidence to be Leinster’s number one outhalf at present (which may be fair enough considering Johnny is still knocking around!).

errlloyd

Is the season ticket holder exchange gone for non ST holders?

I always try to buy from ST holders (because they have the best seats, and because I think it's sound), wanted to buy tickets for this weekend, but can't find the link.

DonVito

Just FWIW, Fardy has 47+ starts at second-row at club level between Leinster and the Brumbies. Obviously around 10-15 of them are at Pro 14 level, but that still leaves 30+ second row starts at Super Rugby and Heineken Cup combined.

Tadhg Beirne has 28 starts at second-row in his career. The majority of them are pro 14.

Richie_Rich89

Former Former wrote: »

Would you under any circumstances say "oh, that's interesting, I guess you were right?"

Your contention is that it makes sense to put Toner, Ryan and Fardy in the same bracket as second rows proven at the highest level and Beirne lagging way behind as someone who isn't proven at European level, right?

I think it makes more sense to have Beirne and Fardy in the same bracket. Neither has much experience at lock internationally, unlike Toner and Ryan. Fardy would certainly be far closer to Beirne's status than Toner's as an international lock.

I would also contend that Beirne is a proven European performer in the second row over the past few seasons with the Scarlets?

How is any of that irrational?

Anyway, let's see the numbers. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe Fardy has 10 or 15 international caps as a lock?

Dubinusa

Beirne played a lot in the back row for Scarlets. His versatility will get him to Japan imo. I think he's a quality 2nd row and I would play him in certain fixtures, horse for courses. He may turn out to be our best lock? Time will tell.
As far as Kleyn, he is a huge man. But, he is a bigger version of Roux imo. I don't think he's as good as Henderson. I'd say our best 2nd row is Henderson/ Ryan. Beirne may come on and be better, but I don't think Kleyn will.
If Treadwell regains the form he had 2 yrs ago, he may get back into the set up. There is a lot of depth in the 2nd row right now and to think Donncha Ryan is not available. It's fantastic.

DonVito

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

Anyway, let's see the numbers. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe Fardy has 10 or 15 international caps as a lock?

He has 2 international caps as a lock. So pretty much no difference in experience at international level if you're looking at just the second-row.

The only difference in experience is the considerable amount of Super Rugby games that Fardy has played at lock.

Richie_Rich89

DonVito wrote: »

He has 2 international caps as a lock. So pretty much no difference in experience at international level if you're looking at just the second-row.

The only difference in experience is the considerable amount of Super Rugby games that Fardy has played at lock.

Where are you seeing this? I was on a stats site once that listed number of starts in different jersey numbers, but I can't remember which site it was

irishbucsfan

All I need to know is how Fardy played last season. Which was at lock and was as good as any forward at Leinster.

Any previous stuff is irrelevant so log as he keeps putting in performances like he did last season (got him nominated EPOTY as well).

I’m sure she will catch up to him and Toner at some point anyway, but it’s great while it lasts.

irishbucsfan

errlloyd wrote: »

Is the season ticket holder exchange gone for non ST holders?

I always try to buy from ST holders (because they have the best seats, and because I think it's sound), wanted to buy tickets for this weekend, but can't find the link.

I actually have to go to an engagement party so I’ll miss it this weekend. If you want to take mine off my hands (again!)

Edit: I’ve two of them

irishbucsfan

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I actually have to go to an engagement party so I’ll miss it this weekend. If you want to take mine off my hands (again!)

Edit: I’ve two of them

Jesus that's awful. Engagement parties are a right pain in the hole but having to go to two of them...

DonVito

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

Where are you seeing this? I was on a stats site once that listed number of starts in different jersey numbers, but I can't remember which site it was

ESPN will give you detailed international test data, telling you what positions players came on at from the bench.
For Super Rugby, the South Africa rugby website has all the match reports with line-ups.

Former Former

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

Your contention is that it makes sense to put Toner, Ryan and Fardy in the same bracket as second rows proven at the highest level and Beirne lagging way behind as someone who isn't proven at European level, right?

I think it makes more sense to have Beirne and Fardy in the same bracket. Neither has much experience at lock internationally, unlike Toner and Ryan. Fardy would certainly be far closer to Beirne's status than Toner's as an international lock.

I would also contend that Beirne is a proven European performer in the second row over the past few seasons with the Scarlets?

How is any of that irrational?

Anyway, let's see the numbers. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe Fardy has 10 or 15 international caps as a lock?

My contention is that you said; "Beirne could have more caps at lock at Super/Euro level than Fardy has."

Beirne has seven caps at lock in Europe. Seven.

Your position is irrational because a) you're talking nonsense but b) you're only grinding this axe because Fardy is a dirty Johnny Foreigner.

molloyjh

Prader-Willi (PRAH-dur VIL-e) syndrome is a rare genetic disorder that results in a number of physical, mental and behavioral problems. A key feature of Prader-Willi syndrome is a constant sense of hunger that usually begins at about 2 years of age.

People with Prader-Willi syndrome want to eat constantly because they never feel full (hyperphagia), and they usually have trouble controlling their weight.

Feeding people suffering from this syndrome is dangerous and should be avoided at all costs.

Some of the above is relevant to this thread. I’m sure it’s not hard to decipher.

As for Leinster, I’m hoping we see a decent side starting this weekend. Think we’ll see Henshaw rested though. Meaning Tomane will start. He’ll need a good performance to keep the critics off his back.

Dooley Tracy Porter
Fardy Ryan
Ruddock Deegan VDF

McGrath Sexton
Tomane Ringrose
Lowe Larmour McFadden

Byrne, Byrne, Bent, Molony, Leavy, HOS, Byrne, Dave

Richie_Rich89

Former Former wrote: »

My contention is that you said; "Beirne could have more caps at lock at Super/Euro level than Fardy has."

Beirne has seven caps at lock in Europe. Seven.

Your position is irrational because a) you're talking nonsense but b) you're only grinding this axe because Fardy is a dirty Johnny Foreigner.

I'm just interested in establishing the facts. I thought it was strange to lump Fardy in with Toner as if they have equivalent accomplishments at lock.

Fardy has four starts in Europe at lock, none of them knock-out games

Richie_Rich89

Here's what I was looking for http://www.testrugby.com/Scott-Fardy/6389-04E0D820-9D1F-4D0A-A06D-F64A4E09CA14/

By my count Fardy has 33 starts in the second row in Super Rugby

Clegg

I'm excited for this season because I think it's a free hit. I don't expect Leinster to do the double again because we've lost so many good players. But with that comes the opportunity for younger guys to establish themselves ala Larmour and Ryan. Would really love it if Deegan could force his way into a few Champion Cup squads. He has the skillset to do it. Adapted to the Pro 14 so quickly to the point where he's more than able for it. Europe is the next step. I'd love to see him play in a full strength side. Although it has to be at 8. Don't think he'll make it as a 6. Doris is a number 8 but had the heft to make it as a blindside.

Podge_irl

Clegg wrote: »

I'm excited for this season because I think it's a free hit. I don't expect Leinster to do the double again because we've lost so many good players. But with that comes the opportunity for younger guys to establish themselves ala Larmour and Ryan. Would really love it if Deegan could force his way into a few Champion Cup squads. He has the skillset to do it. Adapted to the Pro 14 so quickly to the point where he's more than able for it. Europe is the next step. I'd love to see him play in a full strength side. Although it has to be at 8. Don't think he'll make it as a 6. Doris is a number 8 but had the heft to make it as a blindside.

We have?

irishbucsfan

Podge_irl wrote: »

We have?

I suppose Isa + Carberry + World-Cup-Wrapped-Up-Players?

Not sure I'd put it in such strong terms myseld!

Former Former

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I suppose Isa + Carberry + World-Cup-Wrapped-Up-Players?

Not sure I'd put it in such strong terms myseld!

Heaslip, Murphy.

Obviously Heaslip didn't actually feature last year.

Clegg

Podge_irl wrote: »

Clegg wrote: »

I'm excited for this season because I think it's a free hit. I don't expect Leinster to do the double again because we've lost so many good players. But with that comes the opportunity for younger guys to establish themselves ala Larmour and Ryan. Would really love it if Deegan could force his way into a few Champion Cup squads. He has the skillset to do it. Adapted to the Pro 14 so quickly to the point where he's more than able for it. Europe is the next step. I'd love to see him play in a full strength side. Although it has to be at 8. Don't think he'll make it as a 6. Doris is a number 8 but had the heft to make it as a blindside.

We have?

Yep.

Two starters in the Pro 12 and Champions Cup final as well as our future 10. Obviously Carbery didn't feature as much last season but he's a huge talent all the same. Heaslip was a world class talent. He didn't feature at all last season but we'll feel his absence. The squad just isn't as strong this year.

prawnsambo

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

Here's what I was looking for http://www.testrugby.com/Scott-Fardy/6389-04E0D820-9D1F-4D0A-A06D-F64A4E09CA14/

By my count Fardy has 33 starts in the second row in Super Rugby

It should have been obvious to you that Leinster would not have signed him at lock unless he had fairly decent experience in that position.

Rigor Mortis

Deleted User wrote: »

Jesus that's awful. Engagement parties are a right pain in the hole but having to go to two of them...

I admire a man who hedges his bets.

Interested Observer

Clegg wrote: »

Yep.

Two starters in the Pro 12 and Champions Cup final as well as our future 10. Obviously Carvery didn't feature as much last season but he's a huge talent none the same. Heaslip was a world class talent. He didn't feature at all last season but we'll feel his absence all the same. The squad just isn't as strong this year.

Guess this is pretty obvious but it all depends on injuries. If Sexton and Byrne stay fit for the season then I think Leinster can give both competitions a good shot again (and I don't expect Leinster to win both again, it's too hard). If either get injured for any prolonged period the chances are slashed. Not worried about the back row at all.

Podge_irl

Actually completely forgot about Murphy. All the same, I wouldn't consider losing a back up 10, a leader but player very much on the wane and one of a multitude of back row options to be crippling. I don't think we'll repeat cause it would be incredibly difficult but don't consider Murphy nacewa and carberry to be the reason. It's not even that high a turnover.