Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread X: [****]

Serbian

Random Bloke wrote: »

He also stated that the offside rule doesn’t apply in open play

This is huge, could have big impact to tactics if other elite level coaches realise this. Leinster should employ a tactic where they get the fastest lad, maybe Larmour, to run all the way to the opposition try area during open play and then get Lowe to kick it up the pitch to him, he’s good st the oul kicking.

Interested Observer

Random Bloke wrote: »

He also stated that the offside rule doesn’t apply in open play, and Earls was entitled to pick up the ball and score even if he was ahead of the ball. Woods disagreed with him, yet he repeated his claim that Earls was not offside.
I used wonder why he couldn’t get a coaching job. Now I know.

Well, you've saved me half an hour.

salmocab

Interested Observer wrote: »

Well, you've saved me half an hour.

In fairness Wood was balanced EOS just came across as wanting a particular outcome regardless of what happened.

Interested Observer

salmocab wrote: »

In fairness Wood was balanced EOS just came across as wanting a particular outcome regardless of what happened.

I've seen an awful lot of that from the media in regards to this game.

Yeah_Right

As much as I wanted Munster to win the match, the lack of understanding of the rules stuns me. From fans online and at work and from so-called experts. The penalty-try and the Earls non-try are not debatable. The decisions are 100% correct. Yes, the deliberate knock on was wrong but the result was correct.

The no yellow card for the scrum penalties can be argued for eternity.

Rigor Mortis

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Just listened to Off the Ball podcast, I noticed at weekend on Eir but he really doubled down on podcast. Eddie O'Sullivan seems to hate Leinster.....

I dont think he hates leinster. In fairness, he has a point about game management. There was a logic to letting the game play on till Earls 'scored.' By blowing as he did, he effectively ensured that the worst outcome for Leinster would be an attacking scrum.

That said, he seemed determined that it was a knock on for no good reason and his points about the yellow card were nonsense.

There must be significant pressure on some of these guys to be contrarian. EoS falls into that trap. Not as badly as Matt Williams though, he should just be binned, failure as a coach and a pundit.

Should get team rumours filtering through from some of the pundits today. Haven't heard anything through the rumour mill, really only question of whether Fardy starts in the row ahead of either Toner or Ryan and what is done with the back row. Think the rest of the team picks itself.

Rigor Mortis

Rigor Mortis wrote: »

There was a logic to letting the game play on till Earls 'scored.' .

Probably nearly every game there is a break away play where something illegal happened and it's extremely common for the whistle to go in these circumstances. Same happened to Healy recently, he carried through an immense load of traffic to get the ball down and the whistle had already gone.

How many times have balls been knocked on in contact or something has happened and some player is almost at the opposite end when he realises it's been blown up? It's incredibly common which makes the frustration about it all the more bemusing.

The linesman had his hand up, the ref blew it up. It's only a talking point because the initial infraction was wrong but the end result was correct.

Still heaps of vitriol online, next build up thread is going to be magic.

Rigor Mortis

Deleted User wrote: »

Still heaps of vitriol online, next build up thread is going to be magic.

Infractapalooza - How Lowe can Earls go?

Buer

Rigor Mortis wrote: »

I dont think he hates leinster. In fairness, he has a point about game management. There was a logic to letting the game play on till Earls 'scored.' By blowing as he did, he effectively ensured that the worst outcome for Leinster would be an attacking scrum.

If he lets it go and Earls is tackled short of the line, Munster go through 2 phases and burrow over, his remit to review the incident is gone. It would be a try to Munster despite the referee/assistant being of the opinion an infringement took place. You can't officiate a game like that.

sydthebeat

the touch judge called the knock on... the ref had no choice but to call the play back

Rigor Mortis

Buer wrote: »

If he lets it go and Earls is tackled short of the line, Munster go through 2 phases and burrow over, his remit to review the incident is gone. It would be a try to Munster despite the referee/assistant being of the opinion an infringement took place. You can't officiate a game like that.

Fair point.

mangobob

In some ways the fact that these discussions and analyses and debates about the rights or wrongs of decisions are still continuing give me even more sympathy for the refs. Hours and even days later supposedly knowledgeable fans and professional coaches are reviewing the same incidents over and over and still getting it wrong. How much harder is it for the officials to weigh up all the factors in a dynamic and often complicated situation and then come to the correct decision in the heat of the moment, sometimes with only a fraction of a second to make a call. Even with the advent of the TMO and replays, there is still enormous pressure on them to get everything right, with tens of thousands of fans screaming at them and millions of eyes scrutinising their decision making. Even when they get it right, they can be subject to a great deal of unfair comment and even abuse.

Who would want to be a ref?

Exclamation Marc

The crucifixion of referees and touch judges by some camps lately is appalling. In the heat of the moment, they try their best to see and accurately judge everything in real time.

They go to the TMO too often - there are complaints.
They don't go to the TMO enough - there are complaints.

Leinster and pretty much every side has been unfairly denied points and probably wins at some points in the past but you suck it up and move it on. The "MOTM award should be the ref" posts are just embarrassing.

You have a human ref, you occasionally get human errors.

Interested Observer

mangobob wrote: »

In some ways the fact that these discussions and analyses and debates about the rights or wrongs of decisions are still continuing give me even more sympathy for the refs. Hours and even days later supposedly knowledgeable fans and professional coaches are reviewing the same incidents over and over and still getting it wrong. How much harder is it for the officials to weigh up all the factors in a dynamic and often complicated situation and then come to the correct decision in the heat of the moment, sometimes with only a fraction of a second to make a call. Even with the advent of the TMO and replays, there is still enormous pressure on them to get everything right, with tens of thousands of fans screaming at them and millions of eyes scrutinising their decision making. Even when they get it right, they can be subject to a great deal of unfair comment and even abuse.

Who would want to be a ref?

This is a really valid point. He's gotten it in the neck from all angles for what was overall a decent performance.

Example - Thornley was an absolute disgrace on Second Captains this week. Lays out his stall early by saying something like the match was blighted by the performance of the officials. When they get into the details then they all agree the PT and yellow was according to the laws, but that the laws are very harsh so it's ok to get stuck into the officials apparently.

Then they move onto the offside which he ignorantly declares should have been play on and really lays into the touch judge. When it's pointed out to him that Earls was in front of Arnold and hence offside he just mumbles "maybe" a few times. Yes the deliberate knock-on wasn't the right call but the MOST wrong call here would have been a Munster try - that's irrelevant it seems.

People listen to this and think he actually knows what he's talking about.

Peregrine

I really don't understand how people who comment on rugby (and even coach) for a living can't understand the offside rule.

Anyway, enough of that. Ruddock, Leavy, O'Brien, Conan and Josh The Destroyer. Who misses out? For me, Ruddock and VdF have to start. Do you pick Conan at 8 or do you pick SOB, VdF and Ruddock and put SOB or Ruddock at 8 and hope for the best? If Conan doesn't start, he probably won't be involved at all.

stephen_n

Peregrine wrote: »

I really don't understand how people who comment on rugby (and even coach) for a living can't understand the offside rule.

Anyway, enough of that. Ruddock, Leavy, O'Brien, Conan and Josh The Destroyer. Who misses out? For me, Ruddock and VdF have to start. Do you pick Conan at 8 or do you pick SOB, VdF and Ruddock and put SOB or Ruddock at 8 and hope for the best? If Conan doesn't start, he probably won't be involved at all.

Think the very first scrum of the game last Saturday answers the question about Conan. SOB at 8 is not a good idea, maybe in a dirt tracker game, or to help boost fitness, but not in Europe. It’s tough on him but I think it will be Leavy who loses out with SOB on the bench.

Dubinusa

I think Conan has to start. He's a natural 8 and his form has been top notch. I'd go with Ruddock. VDF and Conan.
S.O.B needs a run of game time as does Leavy. I think Europe is too important to just play them cos they are healthy.

Neil3030

I dream of a podcast where James Richardson talks to Andrew Dunne for 4 hours about rugby, life and everything in between. It would be a fantastic antidote for the dour everyman hyperbole we seem to be piled beneath these days. Is anyone on here completely minted, can they please make this happen?

Burkie1203

stephen_n wrote: »

Think the very first scrum of the game last Saturday answers the question about Conan. SOB at 8 is not a good idea, maybe in a dirt tracker game, or to help boost fitness, but not in Europe. It’s tough on him but I think it will be Leavy who loses out with SOB on the bench.

Last Saturday was a dirt tracker game. No Sexton furlong Fardy Ringrose

scott1974

Neil3030 wrote: »

I dream of a podcast where James Richardson talks to Andrew Dunne for 4 hours about rugby, life and everything in between. It would be a fantastic antidote for the dour everyman hyperbole we seem to be piled beneath these days. Is anyone on here completely minted, can they please make this happen?

Malcolm O'Kelly on OTB this morning talking about the early days of European rugby is really refreshing.. worth a listen.

Buer

Peregrine wrote: »

Anyway, enough of that. Ruddock, Leavy, O'Brien, Conan and Josh The Destroyer. Who misses out? For me, Ruddock and VdF have to start. Do you pick Conan at 8 or do you pick SOB, VdF and Ruddock and put SOB or Ruddock at 8 and hope for the best? If Conan doesn't start, he probably won't be involved at all.

It has to be Conan for me. He has become a very good, abrasive ball carrier who gets over the gain line with most carries. His work rate in defence has lifted hugely too. In a game where the weather is likely to make it a mess, we'll need guys who can carry and handle the ball up front. Given the likely poor conditions, I don't want to see anyone but Conan trying to deal with the ball at the base of the scrum either with their feet or trying to pick it and pop it up or carry.

SOB showed he is not a No. 8 last weekend. The days of him smashing through people are gone. I'd be almost as happy to see Ruddock at 8 and SOB at 6 these days.

Neil3030

Absolute madness to think that one of SOB, Leavy, VdF, Conan or Ruddock will be watching the game from the stands on Friday night.

If I had to make that call right now, I'd almost say SOB is the one to miss out... blasphemous as that may seem.

Conan - best option at 8
Leavy, Ruddock and VdF - best form

thomond2006

Status Orange - Wind warning for Dublin, Louth, Wexford, Wicklow, Meath, Cork and Waterford
Strong southeast, veering southwest, winds associated with Storm Callum, coinciding with high spring tides will affect Ireland on Thursday night and Friday morning.

Winds will be strongest overnight and early on Friday, gusting between 110 and 130 km/h at coasts.

https://www.met.ie/warnings

Hopefully this doesn't put Friday night in jeopardy.

Those are high winds, comparable to the day we all had off for Ofelia in terms of what actually hit Dublin so enough to bring down trees and bows.

That said yesterday there were very strong winds in Dublin and by 6:00 there wasn't a breath of it so hopefully it's something similar on Friday.

errlloyd

Neil3030 wrote: »

Absolute madness to think that one of SOB, Leavy, VdF, Conan or Ruddock will be watching the game from the stands on Friday night.

If I had to make that call right now, I'd almost say SOB is the one to miss out... blasphemous as that may seem.

Conan - best option at 8
Leavy, Ruddock and VdF - best form

Jordi Murphy would be starting too. If so the backrow of Conan, SOB and Deegan in the stands would be better than some of the back rows starting other places.

Unprecedented squad fitness though. We're extremely fortunate. Let's hope it continues.

Buer

If the Met Eireann sattelite images are correct, it will be absolutely torrential rain over Dublin on Friday night starting around 6pm and getting steadily heavier. The wind is actually due to be not too bad on Friday evening. No more than blustery by that stage.

Interested Observer

thomond2006 wrote: »

https://www.met.ie/warnings

Hopefully this doesn't put Friday night in jeopardy.

Looks like the wind will have died down by Friday evening. The rain though...

ionadnapokot

Random Bloke wrote: »

He also stated that the offside rule doesn’t apply in open play, and Earls was entitled to pick up the ball and score even if he was ahead of the ball. Woods disagreed with him, yet he repeated his claim that Earls was not offside.
I used wonder why he couldn’t get a coaching job. Now I know.

I would encourage anyone who doubts EOS to listen back to this in its entirety.
His knowledge and analysis are a cut above the rest of the media.
& he is an exceptional coach.
I am not Heaslip

irishbucsfan

ionadnapokot wrote: »

I would encourage anyone who doubts EOS to listen back to this in its entirety.
His knowledge and analysis are a cut above the rest of the media.
& he is an exceptional coach.
I am not Heaslip

Definite “not sure if serious” vibes here...