Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread X: [****]

troyzer

Squidgy Black wrote: »

If JGP doesn't sign a new contract at the end of this season I'll go awec at Nucifora.

I'd be surprised if he did. It's increasingly looking like he has no shot at the Irish squad.

Squidgy Black

troyzer wrote: »

I'd be surprised if he did. It's increasingly looking like he has no shot at the Irish squad.

I mean, his alternatives are to go back to NZ and be a Super Rugby benchwarmer, or try get a contract in France or England.

International caps aren't everyone's end goal.

Former Former

troyzer wrote: »

I'd be surprised if he did. It's increasingly looking like he has no shot at the Irish squad.

????

What's your basis for that?

Podge_irl

troyzer wrote: »

I'd be surprised if he did. It's increasingly looking like he has no shot at the Irish squad.

LostArt

It's highly unlikely McCarthy would be moving on if JGP hasn't agreed to stay

troyzer

Murray, McGrath, Marmion and Cooney are all ahead of him as far as I'm concerned.

How is he supposed to break into the Ireland squad with that much depth ahead of him?

Why would he bother staying to play second fiddle in a province? He could probably be a starter and get paid starting money in England or somewhere else in the Pro 14.

Buer

stephen_n wrote: »

I’m sure you would have said the same about Cooney, yet he is in the picture now.

When he moved, Cooney was way ahead of where McCarthy is now. He was proven to some level as a professional player which McCarthy is not.

I think people are overlooking just how unproven and inexperienced Nick McCarthy is. 4 starts for Leinster. Ever. He turns 24 later this season. His profile increased dramatically last season due to the foreign player ruling which forced him into the discussion for our first choice 23 and, even at that, he's not even close to being considered a first choice 23 player if we could select who we want. If we didn't have the foreign player selection headache, he would command the same level of profile as someone like Josh Murphy who is the same age and has the same amount of game time for Leinster's senior team.

It's a good move for him and Irish rugby. I don't see much issue with it at all. It's not like he has looked anything special in his appearances either. I'd rather we cut our losses now and invest in HOS or PP over the next 12 months than Nick McCarthy who, to my mind, looks like he will be a Pro14/extended squad player at best for Leinster.

Squidgy Black

troyzer wrote: »

Murray, McGrath, Marmion and Cooney are all ahead of him as far as I'm concerned.

How is he supposed to break into the Ireland squad with that much depth ahead of him?

Why would he bother staying to play second fiddle in a province? He could probably be a starter and get paid starting money in England or somewhere else in the Pro 14.

I think you're over-hyping his ability, and certainly what he's shown.

He won't walk into a starting spot in the AP or most Pro14 teams aside from the SA/Italian teams, and even maybe then not.

Buer

troyzer wrote: »

I'd be surprised if he did. It's increasingly looking like he has no shot at the Irish squad.

I'd be shocked if he didn't. He'll be negotiating his next deal at the moment and will have no idea yet if he has been able to break into the set up or not.

I'd say it's almost certain that he signs at least a 2 year deal with Leinster. He'll have no idea of where he stands in the Irish pecking order until he actually is available. I don't see him being selected initially but I also would put good money on him being capped during his next contract at some point also (whilst not being in our first choice 23 at any point probably).

CMcsporty

LostArt wrote: »

It's highly unlikely McCarthy would be moving on if JGP hasn't agreed to stay

Or make room for the "conveyer belt"!
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/european-cup/leinster-buck-national-trend-with-conveyor-belt-of-nines-1.3656257

The obvious answer is Nick McCarthy but how come Hugh O’Sullivan wore the H2O bib during the Munster game while McCarthy was spinning leather in Donnybrook for the A team?
Could the Ireland U-20s scrumhalf be primed for promotion and who is Patrick Patterson?
Everything but their medical information will eventually be revealed about these 20-year-old scrumhalves, both of whom have been mapped since early teens.
“Especially in this preseason we saw more of them,” said Luke McGrath.
“Hughie obviously got capped and Patrick Patterson has been brilliant for the A team so there is so much competition, which is ongoing here at Leinster. Just shows you have to keep to high standards or they’ll be swapped in. But it is great to see the club has huge competition in every position.”

This is the first time Irish rugby and a wealth of scrumhalves can be bracketed in the same sentence. Remarkably, the Leinster schools cooked three genuinely talented nines from the same batch as O’Sullivan was followed by second cousins Patterson and James Kenny (worryingly, O’Sullivan was used by Belvedere College at fullback which may hinder development under the 10,000 hour rule).

AdamD

Buer wrote: »

When he moved, Cooney was way ahead of where McCarthy is now. He was proven to some level as a professional player which McCarthy is not.

I think people are overlooking just how unproven and inexperienced Nick McCarthy is. 4 starts for Leinster. Ever. He turns 24 later this season. His profile increased dramatically last season due to the foreign player ruling which forced him into the discussion for our first choice 23 and, even at that, he's not even close to being considered a first choice 23 player if we could select who we want. If we didn't have the foreign player selection headache, he would command the same level of profile as someone like Josh Murphy who is the same age and has the same amount of game time for Leinster's senior team.

It's a good move for him and Irish rugby. I don't see much issue with it at all. It's not like he has looked anything special in his appearances either. I'd rather we cut our losses now and invest in HOS or PP over the next 12 months than Nick McCarthy who, to my mind, looks like he will be a Pro14/extended squad player at best for Leinster.

Agree with you on this. Doubt Leinster are too bothered either, I'm sure one of the academy players coming through will be able to take his minutes and its been pretty clear that Leinster haven't a huge amount of faith in McCarthy anyways.

Interested Observer

I wonder and slightly hope McCarthy is looking over his shoulder at one of the academy lads thinking they're going to get past him in short order. Sorry to see him go though he's a tidy player. He'll get a lot of game time at Munster.

CMcsporty

Interested Observer wrote: »

I wonder and slightly hope McCarthy is looking over his shoulder at one of the academy lads thinking they're going to get past him in short order. Sorry to see him go though he's a tidy player. He'll get a lot of game time at Munster.

Without a doubt. He knows its time to go.
James Hart & Neil Cronin will not be happy though!

Squidgy Black

Interested Observer wrote: »

I wonder and slightly hope McCarthy is looking over his shoulder at one of the academy lads thinking they're going to get past him in short order. Sorry to see him go though he's a tidy player. He'll get a lot of game time at Munster.

More than likely yes. I'd say he's concerned about the lack of gametime he's gotten since he left the academy, and sees now as his window to get gametime and prove himself, and is probably looking over his shoulder concerned that his already minimal gametime will be reduced by giving the academy lads a run.

molloyjh

Larbre34 wrote: »

Of course he isn't, but I'm entitled to disagree with them both about the cover needed over the next 20 months. I've no problem with Leinster sharing the wealth where talent is deep, but scrum-half isn't and we should be looking after No. 1

So should Nick McCarthy.

Squidgy Black wrote: »

If JGP doesn't sign a new contract at the end of this season I'll go awec at Nucifora.

Is there anything at all to suggest that Nucifora has had anything at all to do with this? Surely this is just a player who has made a decision to go elsewhere for game time?

Yeah_Right

Thermoman12 wrote: »

Don’t like the way a New Zealand reject is blocking talented scrum halves coming through that had dreamed playing for their province since they were a kid then being forced to another club cuz a lad from a different country comes in and stays there for three years and now he’s somehow “Irish”, we don’t need jgp, he’s a good player but Irish rugby doesn’t need him, hope he goes back to New Zealand, imagine how you would feel if you were Nick McCarthy and had to move province because a non Irish player took your place

If a New Zealand reject is taking "their" spot then are they really that talented? They can have all the dreams they want but they can't get past some second-rate foreigner. Therefore they can spend their career collecting A jerseys. Its the pro-rugby version of a Participation medal.

arsebiscuits1

Confirmed

https://twitter.com/leinsterrugby/status/1052870775886176256

troyzer

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

Confirmed

https://twitter.com/leinsterrugby/status/1052870775886176256

Fair play to him I suppose.

Hopefully we won't miss him with Hugh O'Sullivan coming through.

Squidgy Black

molloyjh wrote: »

Is there anything at all to suggest that Nucifora has had anything at all to do with this? Surely this is just a player who has made a decision to go elsewhere for game time?

No I just feel left out that Ulster get to give out about him so often and we don't.

scott1974

molloyjh wrote: »

So should Nick McCarthy.



Is there anything at all to suggest that Nucifora has had anything at all to do with this? Surely this is just a player who has made a decision to go elsewhere for game time?

Don't drink the Kool-Aid...oh-ow too late...

errlloyd

In the last couple of years you'd have two or three days to pick up the ten euro tickets. But they're sold out already. Fair play to Leinster branch. The marketing and pricing seems on point. We're consistently just about filling it. Good money spinner even if it's a kack atmosphere.

Thanos

Tried to get 2 for 100 tickets in the south stand but no joy, anyone else have any luck with that offer?

On the one hand it's very early in the season to announce this, but at least it gives him plenty of time to learn the words to Stand up and Fight...

I would suspect we'll see McCarthy lose out to some of the academy 9's now in the pro14 as they'll want to develop behind him. This saves Leinster from having to make excuses when selection decisions appear to sideline McCarthy a little bit.

Exclamation Marc

There's no chance Leinster would be caught short in letting McCarthy go unless they had JGP signed up already or some NIQ player tied up (which is highly unlikely) given that McGrath is an international guaranteed to miss a bunch of game time. Not a hope.

My hope is that they have Lowe and Fardy also tied up already to extensions if they're dealing with the contract business now.

arsebiscuits1

Deleted User wrote: »

On the one hand it's very early in the season to announce this, but at least it gives him plenty of time to learn the words to Stand up and Fight...

I would suspect we'll see McCarthy lose out to some of the academy 9's now in the pro14 as they'll want to develop behind him. This saves Leinster from having to make excuses when selection decisions appear to sideline McCarthy a little bit.

I agree with your second point.

McCarthy, O'Sullivan and Patterson are all various distances off the finished product. All are still developing which will come with game time

McCarthy is obviously the most experienced of the 3, but I think playing him still comes under the "development" tab for some games.

As a result, going forward he wont get the nod for these games. Better to play O'Sullivan and give him a leg up on next year.

McCarthy will still play and rightly so, but I think he has reduced his involvement this season by about 200-300 minutes and handed them directly to HOS

prawnsambo

Was there really any competition for this?

errlloyd

The only try that was potentially better was the Dev loop, Furlong footwork try.

troyzer

prawnsambo wrote: »

Was there really any competition for this?

I preferred the McGrath try with Toner's pass and Furlong's break and offload.

It was far more of a terrifyingly impressive try.

Sexton through the legs? It looks great on the highlights but it's not as technically impressive as a 130kg tighthead breaking ankles.

Rigor Mortis

Furlong's try was better. By the stage this one was scored we were in rope a dope territory.

stephen_n

Buer wrote: »

When he moved, Cooney was way ahead of where McCarthy is now. He was proven to some level as a professional player which McCarthy is not.

I think people are overlooking just how unproven and inexperienced Nick McCarthy is. 4 starts for Leinster. Ever. He turns 24 later this season. His profile increased dramatically last season due to the foreign player ruling which forced him into the discussion for our first choice 23 and, even at that, he's not even close to being considered a first choice 23 player if we could select who we want. If we didn't have the foreign player selection headache, he would command the same level of profile as someone like Josh Murphy who is the same age and has the same amount of game time for Leinster's senior team.

It's a good move for him and Irish rugby. I don't see much issue with it at all. It's not like he has looked anything special in his appearances either. I'd rather we cut our losses now and invest in HOS or PP over the next 12 months than Nick McCarthy who, to my mind, looks like he will be a Pro14/extended squad player at best for Leinster.

The move makes perfect sense from McCarthy’s perspective and as such I’ve no problem with him going. Though once again in the short term Munsters gain is Leinsters loss. From an Irish perspective it makes sense too and that was my point. McCarthy may not have been starting but he played 21 times last season, which isn’t bad for a 22/23 year old scrum half given the season Leinster had. I think in general people are very quick to dismiss young scrumhalves. It’s a position that more than any other, apart from maybe 10. Requires plenty of game time to really develop into. I don’t think McCarthy is the future Irish first choice 9, but he could definitely be in the mix in a few years the same way as Cooney is.