Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread X: [****]

Shefwedfan

Clegg wrote: »

On this showing Scarlets don't have a hope in Europe. Well beaten by an average Leicester side.

Leicester at home.....never easy to go and win

The fact they have Tuilagi fit and playing will make them dangeours....

dregin

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Ah he had his commercial hat on him, sponsors can be touchy about that kind of thing and Guinness have their claws all over rugby at the moment.

Still got a chuckle from me at the time!

So many rugby podcasts on the go now, we should start a boards.ie rugby podcast. We can invite guests from the provincial discussion boards like Munster fans and Leinster fans and get the auld rivalry back into full swing.

Zzippy would get callus on his fingers from handing out cards!

Didn't thomond run one with other boardsies donkeys back?

Shefwedfan

dregin wrote: »

Didn't thomond run one with other boardsies donkeys back?

Many many moons ago...Dave something ran it.....thomond was one of panel on it, ran a few of them as well if I remember


Jesus one of the podcasts was about giving Lancaster the England job so a few years back now:p:p:p:p:p:p

Was it Mike from Newcastle as well :-) a guy from North....rant one time about IRFU selling the rugby rights up North to sky.....hahaha.......

Burkie1203

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Ah he had his commercial hat on him, sponsors can be touchy about that kind of thing and Guinness have their claws all over rugby at the moment.

Still got a chuckle from me at the time!

So many rugby podcasts on the go now, we should start a boards.ie rugby podcast. We can invite guests from the provincial discussion boards like Munster fans and Leinster fans and get the auld rivalry back into full swing.

Zzippy would get callus on his fingers from handing out cards!

Get Awec and Nucifora on the same show

Dubinusa

I think a move for A Byrne is his best option. Although Ferg is getting older , he's still better than Byrne. DK and Daly are decent players also and are better defenders. ROL imo is a natural winger and he too is a better option. That's just the fringe guys. Keenan may be on board next year as might Kelly who is highly rated.
A spell elsewhere may help him get back to a starting position.

Wegians89

Dubinusa wrote: »

I think a move for A Byrne is his best option. Although Ferg is getting older , he's still better than Byrne. DK and Daly are decent players also and are better defenders. ROL imo is a natural winger and he too is a better option. That's just the fringe guys. Keenan may be on board next year as might Kelly who is highly rated.
A spell elsewhere may help him get back to a starting position.

With the Reece deal ended maybe signing for Connacht could be s good step for him?

Squidgy Black

Wegians89 wrote: »

With the Reece deal ended maybe signing for Connacht could be s good step for him?

Ulster also desperately stuck for back three players because of injuries, even as injury cover would be a good move.

Wegians89

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Ulster also desperately stuck for back three players because of injuries, even as injury cover would be a good move.

Probably would be a better move going to ulster yeah. Talented guy should move on

Squidgy Black

Watched the House of Rugby podcast earlier, and there was a sort of off the cuff remark about Leinster not having a salary cap and that's how they have such strength in depth compared to the English teams.

I think we definitely have a high wage bill, considering we have a significant amount of central contracts and international players, and also 3 marquee NIQs and JGP, but what are people's opinions on how we'd stack up to the likes of Wasps or Bath if it was to be broken down into a salary cap situation?

I think a lack of understanding by the English media is that a lot of Leinster's depth is filled by young players who have just graduated recently from the academy and aren't on blockbuster deals yet. I'd say we'd definitely be hitting close to the cap of the Gallagher Premiership but not exceeding it by much.

Thermoman12

Dubinusa wrote: »

I think a move for A Byrne is his best option. Although Ferg is getting older , he's still better than Byrne. DK and Daly are decent players also and are better defenders. ROL imo is a natural winger and he too is a better option. That's just the fringe guys. Keenan may be on board next year as might Kelly who is highly rated.
A spell elsewhere may help him get back to a starting position.

Adam Byrne is way better than Dave Kearney, I think Dave Kearney should move if anything

sydthebeat

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Watched the House of Rugby podcast earlier, and there was a sort of off the cuff remark about Leinster not having a salary cap and that's how they have such strength in depth compared to the English teams.

I think we definitely have a high wage bill, considering we have a significant amount of central contracts and international players, and also 3 marquee NIQs and JGP, but what are people's opinions on how we'd stack up to the likes of Wasps or Bath if it was to be broken down into a salary cap situation?

I think a lack of understanding by the English media is that a lot of Leinster's depth is filled by young players who have just graduated recently from the academy and aren't on blockbuster deals yet. I'd say we'd definitely be hitting close to the cap of the Gallagher Premiership but not exceeding it by much.

Im pretty sure this was discussed here during this very week...

PhlegmyMoses

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Watched the House of Rugby podcast earlier, and there was a sort of off the cuff remark about Leinster not having a salary cap and that's how they have such strength in depth compared to the English teams.

I think we definitely have a high wage bill, considering we have a significant amount of central contracts and international players, and also 3 marquee NIQs and JGP, but what are people's opinions on how we'd stack up to the likes of Wasps or Bath if it was to be broken down into a salary cap situation?

I think a lack of understanding by the English media is that a lot of Leinster's depth is filled by young players who have just graduated recently from the academy and aren't on blockbuster deals yet. I'd say we'd definitely be hitting close to the cap of the Gallagher Premiership but not exceeding it by much.

It is also a merit based system in Ireland. There is a reason why Leinster have so many central contracts, and thus a higher wage bill, and that could easily shift more towards one of the other provinces if they had a golden generation. I woild agree that I would be surprised if Leinster were massively outstripping Prem teams for salary.

Interested Observer

Several of the clubs have apparently breached the salary cap with no sanction so who cares. They don't actually have a salary cap either if it isn't enforced.

salmocab

I’d be interested to see some real comparisons, salary plus other outlays. I’d imagine Leinster get some return from the academy, it would be very difficult to make accurate comparisons as Leinster have a huge structure that prem clubs don’t, what they do have is massive debts and reliance on millionaires. Not all I’m sure but enough that it skews the league in favor of spending in the short term over long term investments.

awec

salmocab wrote: »

I’d be interested to see some real comparisons, salary plus other outlays. I’d imagine Leinster get some return from the academy, it would be very difficult to make accurate comparisons as Leinster have a huge structure that prem clubs don’t, what they do have is massive debts and reliance on millionaires. Not all I’m sure but enough that it skews the league in favor of spending in the short term over long term investments.

I think the debt thing is a bit misleading. I would imagine that without the IRFU pumping money in to the provinces they would all be in massive debt as well.

I am not sure I buy into the notion that Irish rugby are the paupers of the rugby world, that we are somehow successful despite a tiny budget.

troyzer

awec wrote: »

salmocab wrote: »

I’d be interested to see some real comparisons, salary plus other outlays. I’d imagine Leinster get some return from the academy, it would be very difficult to make accurate comparisons as Leinster have a huge structure that prem clubs don’t, what they do have is massive debts and reliance on millionaires. Not all I’m sure but enough that it skews the league in favor of spending in the short term over long term investments.

I think the debt thing is a bit misleading. I would imagine that without the IRFU pumping money in to the provinces they would all be in massive debt as well.

Makes you wonder what the RFU is spending all of its money on. There were rumours that Eddie Jones had to pay some of the technical coaches out of his own pocket.

awec

troyzer wrote: »

Makes you wonder what the RFU is spending all of its money on. There were rumours that Eddie Jones had to pay some of the technical coaches out of his own pocket.

The RFU don't own the Premiership clubs. This is why English and French clubs have private owners.

salmocab

awec wrote: »

I think the debt thing is a bit misleading. I would imagine that without the IRFU pumping money in to the provinces they would all be in massive debt as well.

Oh I’m sure none of the provinces would survive as they are on their own but the point I was making is the English went with a system that encourages no long term thinking from the clubs whilst the IRFU model does the opposite. I do think that the IRFU got lucky at the start of professionalism with being slow to embrace it, having the provinces as an existing entity and owning them.
Like I said direct comparisons would be difficult but I’d like to see the numbers as im sure the provinces get more bang for their buck.

awec

salmocab wrote: »

Oh I’m sure none of the provinces would survive as they are on their own but the point I was making is the English went with a system that encourages no long term thinking from the clubs whilst the IRFU model does the opposite. I do think that the IRFU got lucky at the start of professionalism with being slow to embrace it, having the provinces as an existing entity and owning them.
Like I said direct comparisons would be difficult but I’d like to see the numbers as im sure the provinces get more bang for their buck.

Well I think the IRFU got lucky as you say with the provinces being an already existing entity that the rugby public could easily get behind. I am not sure professional rugby would have enjoyed the success had they taken clubs professional instead, and you can see how the Welsh have struggled to generate serious support for their makey-uppy teams.

I am not really sure what else the RFU could have done though, there were far too many clubs in England for them to run them all professionally.

Like if the RFU were in a position to spend their revenues running just 4 teams they'd be 4 bloody good teams.

irishbucsfan

awec wrote: »

Well I think the IRFU got lucky as you say with the provinces being an already existing entity that the rugby public could easily get behind. I am not sure professional rugby would have enjoyed the success had they taken clubs professional instead, and you can see how the Welsh have struggled to generate serious support for their makey-uppy teams.

I am not really sure what else the RFU could have done though, there were far too many clubs in England for them to run them all professionally.

Like if the RFU were in a position to spend their revenues running just 4 teams they'd be 4 bloody good teams.

They could have implemented a 50+1 rule like in Germany. But they didn't and it'll never happen now.

The idea that private ownership can't work or even that it's an inherent disadvantage is just a myth however. And a convenient one for clubs to hide behind when they're not doing well. The RFU put a huge amount of money into the clubs through the LTA.

The Rape of Lucretia

salmocab wrote: »

I’d be interested to see some real comparisons, salary plus other outlays. I’d imagine Leinster get some return from the academy

I'd say so too. But the quality of raw material on the input side is a critical factor in any success.
There does seem to be something truly extraordinary going on in the Spiritan and Jesuit schools. The proportion of top level players that come out of them per pupil input, and the proportion from them that make up Ireland and Leinster squads, either almost immediately, or very quickly once they develop physically, is much more than the just the academy's doing. It is the gem polisher and setter from particularly rich vein that feeds right to its door.

joseywhales

I think it is down to having just four provinces, and even for a time that seemed to stretch resources. The next stage is a full transparent sharing of human resources among provinces(like a draft style system, recently muttered about in a podcast) to truely maximise potential, if that happens the English moaning will increase dramatically. I would personally like that, if it meant we got an extra 5% performance nationally, I think it's worth it. I think the fear of losing parocial competition is overstated in such a small homogenous country, the difference between someone from cork playing for Leinster from the age of 19 compared to a Dublin native is negligible, it's not like drafting in someone from the southern hemisphere, with a very different culture. Ideally we should be aiming for 3 teams capable of reaching the semis annually and a fourth consistently in the champions cup.

salmocab

Using simple maths which I know isn’t perfect but if they wanted a top 14 league they need 3.5 times the rugby population we have, they easily have that. I don’t think that we are naturally better rugby players than them so we must be doing something they aren’t. I would think the answer is in the whole structure of each province particularly Leinster.

Clegg

Have to go back to yesterday's discussion on who can beat Leinster. A full strength Exeter was mentioned. Well they just lost to Castres despite the French side playing an entire half with 14 men. Exeter are good at the grinding game, but once that's matched they're out of ideas.

Have more faith in your province.

armchaircoach

Bath and wasps answering the question "what if neither team can defend!"

Exclamation Marc

Second week in a row that Bath miss golden opportunities to win the game.

Bath and Wasps most likely just knocked each other out with that draw.

Clegg

Leinster A win the Celtic Cup!

Won 8-15.

Exclamation Marc

Two tries from Ronan Kelleher and five points kicked by Frawley.

https://twitter.com/leinsterrugby/status/1053691453904445440?s=19

Clegg

Very frustrating performance. I don't mind going behind early to Toulouse. Sometimes the opposition can be so keyed up for a game that all you can do is attempt to stay in it until the initial burst wears off.

I feel that we actually had the edge on them up front. Their pack is huge, but we scored two tries by keeping the ball close to the ruck and making a half metre here or there. Showed great composure and continuity to do that over multiple phases.

I'm not sure what happened after we scored the third try. We were 6 points ahead with 20+ minutes left against a side we'd begun to move them side to side. They were tiring. But it's like we expected to get the last score easily. We lost that edge that made us the best side in Europe last season. Some very silly errors at set piece and dropped passes. We lost control of that game for 15 minutes and when we regathered ourselves one silly mistake undid all our hard work. I don't think we were poor. But we certainly weren't at our best. Which we have to be when playing away in Europe.