Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread X: [****]

troyzer

Clegg wrote: »

Very frustrating performance. I don't mind going behind early to Toulouse. Sometimes the opposition can be so keyed up for a game that all you can do is attempt to stay in it until the initial burst wears off.

I feel that we actually had the edge on them up front. Their pack is huge, but we scored two tries by keeping the ball close to the ruck and making a half metre here or there. Showed great composure and continuity to do that over multiple phases.

I'm not sure what happened after we scored the third try. We were 6 points ahead with 20+ minutes left against a side we'd begun to move them side to side. They were tiring. But it's like we expected to get the last score easily. We lost that edge that made us the best side in Europe last season. Some very silly errors at set piece and dropped passes. We lost control of that game for 15 minutes and when we regathered ourselves one silly mistake undid all our hard work. I don't think we were poor. But we certainly weren't at our best. Which we have to be when playing away in Europe.

I think a lot of it was leadership on the part of Johnny. There didn't seem to be any tangible response to how fired up they were.

There were parts of the game where everyone seemed like they were waiting for someone else to make something happen. They looked like a bunch of individuals rather than a team with a leader. Definitely a concern.

Still, this loss will really sting and hopefully it won't happen again. I'd rather see their confidence be shattered in the hardest pool game then in a semi final.

Having said that, Tomane was awful. He shouldn't be anywhere near this Heineken cup team, he simply isn't ready. Anytime the ball went near him I was watching through my hands.

molloyjh

troyzer wrote: »

I think a lot of it was leadership on the part of Johnny. There didn't seem to be any tangible response to how fired up they were.

There were parts of the game where everyone seemed like they were waiting for someone else to make something happen. They looked like a bunch of individuals rather than a team with a leader. Definitely a concern.

Still, this loss will really sting and hopefully it won't happen again. I'd rather see their confidence be shattered in the hardest pool game then in a semi final.

Having said that, Tomane was awful. He shouldn't be anywhere near this Heineken cup team, he simply isn't ready. Anytime the ball went near him I was watching through my hands.

You clearly had your mind made up before this game. He wasn’t an issue today at all. And in fact he had some very good moments.

Clegg

We really missed VdF. After his departure we didn't have a flanker that could get off the line quickly and snuff out an attack before it's begun. He's become vital to the way we play imo.

Luke McGrath had a poor game as well. His box kicks were short and his option taking poor. We also needes to see Fardy 10 minutes earlier. That was the time we were losing control of the game. Having him on would've given us more physicality.

troyzer

molloyjh wrote: »

You clearly had your mind made up before this game. He wasn’t an issue today at all. And in fact he had some very good moments.

I didn't actually. I had my doubts at the beginning of the season but by Connacht I thought he had really grown into it.

He can still get there but I don't think he was ready for it today.

scott1974

The 42's article headline is laughable, "Leinster brought down to ground "... the media hyped them up In the first place...

scott1974

troyzer wrote: »

I think a lot of it was leadership on the part of Johnny. There didn't seem to be any tangible response to how fired up they were.

There were parts of the game where everyone seemed like they were waiting for someone else to make something happen. They looked like a bunch of individuals rather than a team with a leader. Definitely a concern.

Still, this loss will really sting and hopefully it won't happen again. I'd rather see their confidence be shattered in the hardest pool game then in a semi final.

Having said that, Tomane was awful. He shouldn't be anywhere near this Heineken cup team, he simply isn't ready. Anytime the ball went near him I was watching through my hands.

Anything specific? Lots of guys made mistakes, I wouldn't single him out specifically.

troyzer

scott1974 wrote: »

troyzer wrote: »

I think a lot of it was leadership on the part of Johnny. There didn't seem to be any tangible response to how fired up they were.

There were parts of the game where everyone seemed like they were waiting for someone else to make something happen. They looked like a bunch of individuals rather than a team with a leader. Definitely a concern.

Still, this loss will really sting and hopefully it won't happen again. I'd rather see their confidence be shattered in the hardest pool game then in a semi final.

Having said that, Tomane was awful. He shouldn't be anywhere near this Heineken cup team, he simply isn't ready. Anytime the ball went near him I was watching through my hands.

Anything specific? Lots of guys made mistakes, I wouldn't single him out specifically.

Missed half of his tackles to start including an easy try saver.

troyzer

Actually, I don't want to get back into stats again. It'll just start another row.

But missing that one tackle to give a soft try was so aggravating. Maybe I have just made my mind up but he doesn't have enough in the bank to deserve the benefit of the doubt like the rest of them.

He wasn't why we lost it, just that one try really stuck with me. I think Sexton's poor leadership is the biggest reason why we lost.

salmocab

The reason we lost wasn’t down to any one player or the captain, there were a lot of individual errors, we got turned over a good few times too. It’s tiny margins in these games and a Leinster were on the wrong end of it, another week a few things stick and you win by 10.

scott1974

troyzer wrote: »

Missed half of his tackles to start including an easy try saver.

Easy try saver 4 yards from his own line going backwards.!! The odds are on the attacker..

Former Former

troyzer wrote: »

Missed half of his tackles to start including an easy try saver.

On Medard?

He was covering a number of guys because Leinster were so narrow. If he'd stuck to the wing, it was an easy run in for them.

Tomane was grand. He's never going to be accepted by a minority though. The new Ben Te'o I think.

Clegg

I think Toulouse play the rugby the media seems to think Leinster plays. They were very loose and had a cut from anywhere. It was exciting to watch but there were a lot of handling errors and player setting in each others way.

What Leinster excel at is setting the pace of the game. They'll keep the ball in hand and grind you down, always sending the defensive line back. Then they'll have a quick move one pass further out from the ruck and make 4 or 5 extra metres that sends the defensive line in retreat. When they're reorganising that's when Leinster strike. And that's when you see the backs combining with forwards for running rugby. It's nice eti watch but it's all predicated on having control of the game.

When Leinster had control they scored trys. But unusually, after going ahead they lost control. Set piece went wonky and simple handling errors crept in. We let Toulouse have too much of the ball. Yet even after that I don't think they gave us that many problems in defence. Their structured play is very basic and we looked able to contain. An interception in their 22 and some lovely support running got them their winning score. We had the beating if Toulouse today. Two of their scores were entirely avoidable.

For the Bath fixtures it'll need to be back to basics. Strangle them and keep the ball until gaps appear. Solid set piece and tire them.

TL;DR we have a very good pack and 10 that can set the pace of a game. Our basics were poor and we failed to keep control of the game. For Bath go back to a simple game of grinding them down then pick up the win. More expansive stuff can wait for the home leg.

troyzer

Former Former wrote: »

troyzer wrote: »

Missed half of his tackles to start including an easy try saver.

On Medard?

He was covering a number of guys because Leinster were so narrow. If he'd stuck to the wing, it was an easy run in for them.

Tomane was grand. He's never going to be accepted by a minority though. The new Ben Te'o I think.

You could be right. I might be too harsh.

He was certainly left on his own quite a few times, how do you think Larmour got on?

Heymans

troyzer wrote: »

You could be right. I might be too harsh.

He was certainly left on his own quite a few times, how do you think Larmour got on?

Let me guess. You don’t think he did well and you want David Kearney back in the team? West Dublin my whole

troyzer

Heymans wrote: »

troyzer wrote: »

You could be right. I might be too harsh.

He was certainly left on his own quite a few times, how do you think Larmour got on?

Let me guess. You don’t think he did well and you want David Kearney back in the team? West Dublin my whole

I am from West Dublin. I'd rather have had ROL starting with Tomane on the bench.

Or maybe McFadden.

Tomane went to a private school by the way. Just to shatter your illusion.

Former Former

Good points.

Henshaw was excellent.
Ryan was his usual self.
70 minutes for O'Brien and he looked good.

Squidgy Black

Heymans wrote: »

Let me guess. You don’t think he did well and you want David Kearney back in the team? West Dublin my whole

You need to drop this personal vendetta thing, nobody has mentioned Dave Kearney apart from you.

Clegg

Luke McGrath was poor. Box kicking was either too short or too long and speed of service erratic. It was like that for the first half of the Wasps game as well. He's a very good player but sometimes he struggles with the basics of scrum half play.

troyzer

Clegg wrote: »

Luke McGrath was poor. Box kicking was either too short or too long and speed of service erratic. It was like that for the first half of the Wasps game as well. He's a very good player but sometimes he struggles with the basics of scrum half play.

His stock definitely fell today for me. He needed a big game to push Marmion out for November.

Shefwedfan

Based on the comments on the internet it seems everyone now has a favorite team to hate and Leinster seem to be it...

Not just our friends in red but loads of comments from the Scot, Welsh, English........

CatFromHue

Former Former wrote: »

Good points.

Henshaw was excellent.

so was his beard. it was manly, yet stylish too. the type of beard other beards want to be

Shefwedfan

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Based on the comments on the internet it seems everyone now has a favorite team to hate and Leinster seem to be it...

Not just our friends in red but loads of comments from the Scot, Welsh, English........

On a purely functional level both those regions did us zero favours in the world cup hosting vote and if the unions view reflects that of the supporters we shouldn't be surprised. England were the one team to actually get behind our pitch - didn't Theresa May publicly support it ?

I think it was a good result for the competition. A french team playing a very traditional french style of rugby beat a team that was billed as unbeatable.

This keeps the championship more interesting and most likely one of the home semi final teams now has a very worrying fixture in store.

Leinster will bounce back and I expect the double header will be unpleasant viewing for Bath.

Best possible time to learn a lesson, and Toulouse did a great job of teaching us whilst being right in our face.

Fabulous rugby.

troyzer

Deleted User wrote: »

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Based on the comments on the internet it seems everyone now has a favorite team to hate and Leinster seem to be it...

Not just our friends in red but loads of comments from the Scot, Welsh, English........

On a purely functional level both those regions did us zero favours in the world cup hosting vote and if the unions view reflects that of the supporters we shouldn't be surprised. England were the one team to actually get behind our pitch - didn't Theresa May publicly support it ?

I think it was a good result for the competition. A french team playing a very traditional french style of rugby beat a team that was billed as unbeatable.

This keeps the championship more interesting and most likely one of the home semi final teams now has a very worrying fixture in store.

Leinster will bounce back and I expect the double header will be unpleasant viewing for Bath.

Best possible time to learn a lesson, and Toulouse did a great job of teaching us whilst being right in our face.

Fabulous rugby.

Literally agree with everything you just said.

To the letter. If the tournament produces more like this it'll end the debate over whether or not it's better than Super Rugby.

Shefwedfan

Deleted User wrote: »

On a purely functional level both those regions did us zero favours in the world cup hosting vote and if the unions view reflects that of the supporters we shouldn't be surprised.

I think it was a good result for the competition. A french team playing a very traditional french style of rugby beat a team that was billed as unbeatable.

This keeps the championship more interesting and most likely one of the home semi final teams now has a very worrying fixture in store.

Leinster will bounce back and I expect the double header will be unpleasant viewing for Bath.

Best possible time to learn a lesson, and Toulouse did a great job of teaching us whilst being right in our face.

Fabulous rugby.

100% it is great for tournament but also a good kick up back side for Leinster.



A loss but it is a loss away in France and we got a bonus point.

salmocab

Everyone enjoys seeing a big gun fall, I’d take it as a compliment if everyone is delighted with our loss.

Buer

Clegg wrote: »

Luke McGrath was poor. Box kicking was either too short or too long and speed of service erratic. It was like that for the first half of the Wasps game as well. He's a very good player but sometimes he struggles with the basics of scrum half play.

I'm sure there has been enough talk of his intercept and the bizarre pop up off the deck on their 22 which led to a turnover. Beyond those, his passing was back to where it was a couple of years ago. It was laboured, floating and lacked precision. We looked to skip out into midfield a few times to hit a big runner as first receiver away from their back row and receiver could have made a cup of tea by the time he got his hands on the ball. It impacted on a really good opportunity early on (when Tomane's rash offload was intercepted). Henshaw had to actually hesitate and stoop to gather the pass it died so much.

He's a very good player but he cannot continue to have days like that and be an option for top tier test rugby.

swiwi_

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Based on the comments on the internet it seems everyone now has a favorite team to hate and Leinster seem to be it...

Not just our friends in red but loads of comments from the Scot, Welsh, English........

It’s called being successful.

FrannoFan

Tomane wasn't the issue but I think himself and larmour were too new in respective positions. Could have used some calm experience in the back 3.

Leinster have struggled in France before. Claremont blew us away in the opening 15 mins a couple of seasons back. Likewise castres I think we were lucky to get out with a draw when they had nothing to play for. French teams at home are tricky.

Luke Mcgrath was the most worrying thing about today's performance. Laboured performance.

molloyjh

troyzer wrote: »

Missed half of his tackles to start including an easy try saver.

Yeah this is exactly the sort of one eyed nonsense I was expecting. That try had 3 attackers in front of Tomane, yet to you Tomane missed “an easy” tackle and there was no responsibility for the rest of the defenders in the line to align correctly.

It’s instructive how you aren’t targeting Cronin for try 1, SOB for the line break on try 2 or McGrath for try 3. Also, Tomane made 4 out of 6 tackles. So he made more than half of his tackles. Luke McGrath made 3 from 5. Fancy holding him to the same standard?

troyzer

molloyjh wrote: »

troyzer wrote: »

Missed half of his tackles to start including an easy try saver.

Yeah this is exactly the sort of one eyed nonsense I was expecting. That try had 3 attackers in front of Tomane, yet to you Tomane missed “an easy” tackle and there was no responsibility for the rest of the defenders in the line to align correctly.

It’s instructive how you aren’t targeting Cronin for try 1, SOB for the line break on try 2 or McGrath for try 3. Also, Tomane made 4 out of 6 tackles. So he made more than half of his tackles. Luke McGrath made 3 from 5. Fancy holding him to the same standard?

It was a three on one. It doesn't change the fact that he should have completed the tackle.

The ball was in mid air and he just stood there. Of course your man was likely to just offload it as soon as Tomane took him down. But he had a chance at forcing him out.

Instead he did nothing. Watch it again:

https://youtu.be/WqG-Y-2Li0I

He hesitated when he should have committed. His only chance of stopping a try there was to push him out.

Easy try saver is a bit harsh on my point. He would have done well to stop that. But he didn't put himself in a position where he'd even have a chance.

I've already criticised SOB for being sloppy due to what I thought was exhaustion. He was very, very slow getting up for large chunks of the game.

I also already said McGrath had a howler of a game.

I am being fair, Tomane wasn't the reason we lost the game and he was far from the worst player on the pitch. But he has no credit in the bank on past performances.

McGrath, Cronin and SOB are in the 23 any day of the week. Tomane hasn't really done anything to earn it yet so of course people are going to be more critical.