advantages of Brexit

FrancieBrady

blinding wrote: »

The 6 decide to join with the 26 . The demographics are changing rapidly and according to some sources Brexit has put it all up for grabs !

Of course we will, we have to, as signatories of the GFA, we are already signed up to accepting unification if a majority decide on it.

blinding

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Absolutely. We have coped with far worse than will happen here.

Sure the Brits might even manage Brexit so .

Nate--IRL--

blinding wrote: »

The 6 decide to join with the 26 . The demographics are changing rapidly and according to some sources Brexit has put it all up for grabs !

No reason for it to happen quickly. If it is voted upon great, however there is no deadline for implementation. Rushing into something that has such fundamental changes on so many levels would be madness..... as Brexit illustrates.

Nate

blinding

blinding wrote: »

I hope the Eu bankrolls that for a good few years . There may be some difficulties .

Anything involving NI joining Ireland would include a very long financial commitment from England.

FrancieBrady

blinding wrote: »

Sure the Brits might even manage Brexit so .

Of course they will. But they will be significantly impoverished doing it. And they will be looking at the UK in tatters.

blinding

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Of course they will. But they will be significantly impoverished doing it. And they will be looking at the UK in tatters.

They said that when Britain did not join the Euro = Lucky escape for Britain .

And they said the next day after voting for Brexit there would be Armageddon .

Who ya gonna trust ?

blinding

Deleted User wrote: »

Anything involving NI joining Ireland would include a very long financial commitment from England.

Sure the remaining Brits are not going to have any money....well , according to some . Has Leo not got the dough ?

Oh FFS I went to the main Brexit thread to catch up on actual Brexit stuff and he's there as well making a complete tit of himself.

It's amusing here but downright annoying there.

FrancieBrady

blinding wrote: »

They said that when Britain did not join the Euro = Lucky escape for Britain .

And they said the next day after voting for Brexit there would be Armageddon .

Who ya gonna trust ?

No, Brexit hasn't happened yet and look at what has happened Britain's ecomony

PeadarCo

blinding wrote:

Will the 26 Counties be able to cope with a No Deal Brexit ?

Far far better than the UK. Given the that in the event of no deal brexit UK Sea and Air ports will come to standstill. We already have UK politicians talking about stockpiling however as far as I know the UK government cannot force businesses to stockpile goods. Given how a lot of businesses work on a just in time basis in relation to stock a no deal brexit would be catastrophic for the UK. That's before you talk about all the regulatory issues all business will face. Look through the threads in the politics forum to get a very small sample of the issues the UK would encounter.

If the UK was serious about a no deal brexit it would have had had to start planning years ago. At this stage the UK does not have to build the relevant infrastructure, hire and train the people required and negotiate the large amount of international agreements it will no longer be party to as a result of leaving the EU.

If the UK wants to shoot itself in the head no one is going to stop them. The idea of the UK even contemplating a no deal brexit is stupid. It shows a complete lack of understanding about the reality of modern economics.

Greentopia

Cabaal wrote: »

To be fair he has a point and its valid.

We've started to create a progressive forward thinking country, creating a united Ireland invites dinosaurs like the DUP into our country and political sphere.

Be careful what you wish for, all it takes is the hard line no voters from the recent referendum and the 2015 ref siding with the DUP because of their pro-life anti gay marriage views and suddenly they could be a political party to cause issues in our country!

Jesus never considered that. :eek: Another reason for me why a United Ireland can never be no more than a nice dream while that shower of neanderthal loons hold power in NI.

First Up

blinding wrote: »

First Up wrote: »

We'll cope fine. Any other questions?

I hope the Eu bankrolls that for a good few years . There may be some difficulties .

Bankroll what?

blinding

First Up wrote: »

Bankroll what?

26 + 6 = 32 .

Apparently Brexit is making a United Ireland much more probable .

FrancieBrady

Greentopia wrote: »

Jesus never considered that. :eek: Another reason for me why a United Ireland can never be no more than a nice dream while that shower of neanderthal loons hold power in NI.

I think his/her scaremongering about a possible alliance was funny.

It will be all fun and games until one of our hardliners breaks out the rosary beads.

First Up

blinding wrote: »

First Up wrote: »

Bankroll what?

26 + 6 = 32 .

Apparently Brexit is making a United Ireland much more probable .

You asked if the "26" could cope with a No Deal (i.e WTO) Brexit. I said yes they will. Your response was that you hope the EU bankrolls that. I asked bankroll what, and you start talking about a united Ireland.

Could you try to follow your own argument?

blinding

First Up wrote: »

You asked if the "26" could cope with a No Deal (i.e WTO) Brexit. I said yes they will. Your response was that you hope the EU bankrolls that. I asked bankroll what, and you start talking about a united Ireland.

Could you try to follow your own argument?

Sorry a misunderstanding . Some peoples quote machines are all over the place .

If the Eu makes life difficult for the Uk which it may do and then the Uk makes life difficult for the 26 Counties will the Eu compensate the 26 Counties for all the difficulties that may occur ?

First Up

blinding wrote: »

First Up wrote: »

You asked if the "26" could cope with a No Deal (i.e WTO) Brexit. I said yes they will. Your response was that you hope the EU bankrolls that. I asked bankroll what, and you start talking about a united Ireland.

Could you try to follow your own argument?

Sorry a misunderstanding . Some peoples quote machines are all over the place .

If the Eu makes life difficult for the Uk which it may do and then the Uk makes life difficult for the 26 Counties will the Eu compensate the 26 Counties for all the difficulties that may occur ?

Difficulties such as?

PeadarCo

blinding wrote:

If the Eu makes life difficult for the Uk which it may do and then the Uk makes life difficult for the 26 Counties will the Eu compensate the 26 Counties for all the difficulties that may occur ?

The UK cannot make life more difficult for the EU without causing massive massive difficulties for itself as I mentioned in my last post.

badtoro

Perhaps we should market our beef as hormone & Brexit free.

Capt'n Midnight

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Yeah but a lot of the trucks will still have to cross Britain to get to Europe.

Irish drivers will continue to have full access because of the CTA.

But 50% of the traffic on the Irish Sea ferries is unaccompanied already. So there's really no problem with Free Movement of drivers.

And a big blue TIR sticker sorts out all the customs arrangements, because there are none for through traffic. The UK can't give up TIR because that would affect stuff like the weekly trains from China.

First Up wrote: »

Plenty of capacity on ferries from Dublin, Rosslare and Cork to France and Spain. More than a dozen sailings a week.

The route via the UK is handy but there are other options. It isn't a coincidence that ferry companies have invested in new ships and routes.

you've missed out the bit where the worlds largest ferries are already doing a 30 hour run from Dublin Port to Zeebrugge. Each has 8Km of vehicle lanes.

blinding

PeadarCo wrote: »

The UK cannot make life more difficult for the EU without causing massive massive difficulties for itself as I mentioned in my last post.

The Uk can cause huge bureaucratic problems with regard to exports through Britain or to Britain if it feels like it . Just tell the bureaucrats to be jobsworths as an example . Obviously the Eu and the 26 Counties can do the same .

About 2 years ago I was going through Dover and the French decided on security grounds to to freeze / blockade / jam up the place . They did this because they could if they wanted to . It was after some Islamic attack or other and you can only guess as to why they did it but ‘ Did it they Did ‘ This was done while Britain and France were in the Eu . Countries have ways of making you suffer if they please as has the Eu if it pleases .

FrancieBrady

blinding wrote: »

Sorry a misunderstanding . Some peoples quote machines are all over the place .

If the Eu makes life difficult for the Uk which it may do and then the Uk makes life difficult for the 26 Counties will the Eu compensate the 26 Counties for all the difficulties that may occur ?

The EU is already getting on with being the EU. That will cause difficulties for anyone who is not in it I am sure.

So what?
The UK cannot do any extra damage to Ireland, we have been over this already.
We will take a hit, but not an insurmountable one and we will emerge with an economy even more insulated from Britain's 'sneezes'.
It's a tough reality for the Little Englanders to grasp.

Hector Bellend

If Brexit doesn't go ahead it will just prove how little your vote is really worth.

Brexit isn't that bad an idea. The reason that is has been so difficult is that the British negotiators haven't exactly covered themselves in glory.

It was never going to be easy but they could certainly have done a better job.

blinding

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The EU is already getting on with being the EU. That will cause difficulties for anyone who is not in it I am sure.

So what?
The UK cannot do any extra damage to Ireland, we have been over this already.
We will take a hit, but not an insurmountable one and we will emerge with an economy even more insulated from Britain's 'sneezes'.
It's a tough reality for the Little Englanders to grasp.

Will the Eu compensate the 26 Counties for any hit ? This is a genuine question .

end of the road

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I think his/her scaremongering about a possible alliance was funny.

It will be all fun and games until one of our hardliners breaks out the rosary beads.

exactly. not a chance would the DUP get enough votes in a UI to be any kind of a political force.

blinding

Hector Bellend wrote: »

If Brexit doesn't go ahead it will just prove how little your vote is really worth.

Brexit isn't that bad an idea. The reason that is has been so difficult is that the British negotiators haven't exactly covered themselves in glory.

It was never going to be easy but they could certainly have done a better job.

Maybe its impossible to come to a deal and both sides are just going through the motions . It looks more and more that this is the case .

Greentopia

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I think his/her scaremongering about a possible alliance was funny.

It will be all fun and games until one of our hardliners breaks out the rosary beads.

True but in pursuit of common goals the DUP and no voter groups may decide to work together regardless of religious differences until they get what they want. The hope would be the fun and games infighting that mean their campaigns never get off the starting blocks, but the thoughts of the DUP holding any kind of influence down here is scary.

blinding

end of the road wrote: »

exactly. not a chance would the DUP get enough votes in a UI to be any kind of a political force.

Could they not often be in a position to hold the balance of Power ?

First Up

blinding wrote: »

PeadarCo wrote: »

The UK cannot make life more difficult for the EU without causing massive massive difficulties for itself as I mentioned in my last post.

The Uk can cause huge bureaucratic problems with regard to exports through Britain or to Britain if it feels like it . Just tell the bureaucrats to be jobsworths as an example . Obviously the Eu and the 26 Counties can do the same .

About 2 years ago I was going through Dover and the French decided on security grounds to to freeze / blockade / jam up the place . They did this because they could if they wanted to . It was after some Islamic attack or other and you can only guess as to why they did it but ‘ Did it they Did ‘ This was done while Britain and France were in the Eu . Countries have ways of making you suffer if they please as has the Eu if it pleases .

If you think it was bad two years ago, just wait until every truck crossing the Channel has to go through customs. 44% of UK exports go to the EU.

Of course the UK could make life difficult for stuff coming in too but as half the food it eats is imported, I'd be careful about that.

blinding

blinding wrote: »

About 2 years ago I was going through Dover and the French decided on security grounds to to freeze / blockade / jam up the place . They did this because they could if they wanted to . It was after some Islamic attack or other and you can only guess as to why they did it but ‘ Did it they Did ‘ This was done while Britain and France were in the Eu . Countries have ways of making you suffer if they please as has the Eu if it pleases .

Wait, this can't be right. France were allowed to do that? I thought only Brussels could do that stuff if you're in the EU?

FrancieBrady

blinding wrote: »

Will the Eu compensate the 26 Counties for any hit ? This is a genuine question .

Entirely possible. Through subvention and aid schemes. The EU is afterall a collective for the common good of it's members.

The Rape of Lucretia

First Up wrote: »

If you leave a club, you cease to get the benefits of membership. If that is punishment, it is self-inflicted.

The Brexiteer mind seems incapable of following this logic, despite it being easily understood by everyone else.

From the EU perspective, membership of the EU is the best deal available to the UK. Anything less than that, ie Brexiting with whatever deal, is therefore unattractive.

And the UK, when it looks at all the viable options that might run with Brussels, finds them unattractive. But then it would wouldnt it - they are all less attractive than membership. Fundamentally both sides agree here. But the UK cant admit this politically.

What the UK considers a good deal would be a better deal than membership of the EU. The chances of the EU giving the UK a deal that is better than membership? Well the UK can go whistle. Yet somehow think the EU is punishing it because it wont give one such deal to them.

The stupidity is truly mind boggling.

PeadarCo

blinding wrote:

About 2 years ago I was going through Dover and the French decided on security grounds to to freeze / blockade / jam up the place . They did this because they could if they wanted to . It was after some Islamic attack or other and you can only guess as to why they did it but ‘ Did it they Did ‘ This was done while Britain and France were in the Eu . Countries have ways of making you suffer if they please as has the Eu if it pleases .

So how can the UK make Ireland/EU suffer more than it will suffer than it will. Come the day after Brexit and there's no deal how long do in think it will take to resolve the issues I mentioned ?.l

In terms of exports there has already been an increase of capacity on Ireland France routes. So an inconvenience to be sure but the country its not a serious problem.

In Irelands case thankfully as has been already highlighted the economy can take the hit. The economy is strong enough to do that. The UK on the other hand has seen inflation exceed growth and its gone from one the best performing economies to one of worst. That's just the impact of the vote never mind actually leaving.

Greentopia

end of the road wrote: »

exactly. not a chance would the DUP get enough votes in a UI to be any kind of a political force.

They've done it with the Conservatives. And DUP voters in a UI wouldn't simply moderate their political and social hardline stances just because they're in a UI. Likely the opposite.

blinding

First Up wrote: »

If you think it was bad two years ago, just wait until every truck crossing the Channel has to go through customs. 44% of UK exports go to the EU.

Of course the UK could make life difficult for stuff coming in too but as half the food it eats is imported, I'd be careful about that.

It could certainly tie Irish stuff in bureaucratic knots if it chooses to especially if the Eu does similar .

end of the road

blinding wrote: »

Could they not often be in a position to hold the balance of Power ?

not impossible for that to happen but not very likely either. the other political parties would work together to prevent that i'd think.

Donald Trump

blinding wrote: »

If the Eu is such a Benign Institution surely it can’t be that hard to leave it .

It's not.
They just have to trigger Article 50 and 2 years later they are out. Easy peasey.
As it stands, they are on their way out in 2019. Only way they aren't going to be out is if the remaining members agree unanimously to allow an extension to the 2 year period.

The difficult part is when they say "yeah, we're leaving, but we still want the benefits" that suit us.


It's a bit like telling your missus you're breaking up with her and whinging when she doesn't accept your demands that you still want to be able to call over whenever you want an oul' ride. Or even cancelling your gym membership but expecting to be still allowed in to use the free weights


Once they're out, they're starting from zero. Just go and do that. I mean you'd laugh if Mexico or Thailand starting demanding things from the EU, offering feck all in return and whinging when the EU said "ah, c'mere lads. cop yourself on"

Resverathrole

TheShow wrote: »

There will be a second referendum and brexit will be cancelled.

At least it will give Pat Kenny something to talk about in the meantime.

end of the road

Greentopia wrote: »

They've done it with the Conservatives. And DUP voters in a UI wouldn't simply moderate their political and social hardline stances just because they're in a UI. Likely the opposite.

the conservatives were desperate to get back into power, the DUP wanted a bigger grip on NI . it was a brilliant opportunity for both of them because the conservatives get back in and the DUP get to hold NI to ransom but don't effect politics on the mainland. of course DUP voters wouldn't change their views in a UI but in reality they would be a minority in a UI.

FrancieBrady

Greentopia wrote: »

They've done it with the Conservatives. And DUP voters in a UI wouldn't simply moderate their political and social hardline stances just because they're in a UI. Likely the opposite.

So the parties that have locked out SF for years from a morally superior higher place, would suddenly get into bed with the DUP?

Entirely possible I suppose. :D

Hector Bellend

blinding wrote: »

Maybe its impossible to come to a deal and both sides are just going through the motions . It looks more and more that this is the case .

Why would you go through the motions if a deal is impossible?

Also, if a deal is impossible why was there a referendum in the first place?

Donald Trump

Hector Bellend wrote: »

Why would you go through the motions if a deal is impossible?

Deal is impossible do to stupidity, arrogance and intransigence of UK

Hector Bellend wrote: »

Also, if a deal is impossible why was there a referendum in the first place?

Maybe they just didn't think it through................


And anyway, getting out is a separate thing from having a future deal. You don't have to have a deal with everyone to be separate from them

First Up

FrancieBrady wrote: »

blinding wrote: »

Will the Eu compensate the 26 Counties for any hit ? This is a genuine question .

Entirely possible. Through subvention and aid schemes. The EU is afterall a collective for the common good of it's members.

There will be EU help with capital investment at ports and the border, assuming there is one. Other schemes like the "Motorway of the Sea" programme that encourages freight to keep off the roads could be expanded too. Direct sailings to mainland Europe have already been expanded, with more to come.

Assistance to individual companies will be chanelled through agencies like Enterprise Ireland but will have to be within EU State Aid and Competition rules.

Agencies like Bord Bia have been putting massive effort into building markets on the continent to both replace anticipated difficulties in the UK food market and to take over business that UK exporters will lose.

The Rape of Lucretia

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

The stupidity is truly mind boggling.

And even their back up plan has the same delusions :

https://www.independent.ie/business/brexit/secret-fallback-plan-if-all-mays-proposals-are-rejected-by-eu-37162777.html


British cabinet ministers have drawn up a secret Brexit "fallback" plan amid concerns that UK Prime Minister Theresa May's Chequers deal will be killed off by Brussels.

It is based on existing EU trade deals with Canada, Japan, South Korea and New Zealand, and sources confirmed it would be put forward if Mrs May's deal was rejected or collapsed in the face of Eurosceptic opposition.

A Cabinet source said: "We would go to the EU and ask for the best bits of each deal. They would be giving nothing more than they've already agreed with others."

"Giving nothing more" ??? '"best bits" ???
Can someone explain the concept of cherry picking to these numbskulls? Deals contain many parts, costs and benefits, that in the bottom line add up as acceptable to each side. You cannot just come along and say "we will have all the ups please, one moment please, while we cherry pick".

Sounds like the backup is still flawed by the same lack of brain power from this same nutters that drafted the doomed before it was even written, White Papar.

blinding

Hector Bellend wrote: »

Why would you go through the motions if a deal is impossible?

Also, if a deal is impossible why was there a referendum in the first place?

You don’t actually need a deal to leave the Eu . They will let you go without a deal . The Eu is not a Prison...thankfully .

The British People want to leave the Eu . The weasley politicians are doing what weasley politicians always do . I.E. , What they think is best for themselves .

FrancieBrady

blinding wrote: »

You don’t actually need a deal to leave the Eu . They will let you go without a deal . The Eu is not a Prison...thankfully .

The British People want to leave the Eu . The weasley politicians are doing what weasley politicians always do . I.E. , What they think is best for themselves .

A percentage of the British people want to leave the EU...a diminishing percentage at that.

Taytoland

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Greentopia wrote: »

They've done it with the Conservatives. And DUP voters in a UI wouldn't simply moderate their political and social hardline stances just because they're in a UI. Likely the opposite.

So the parties that have locked out SF for years from a morally superior higher place, would suddenly get into bed with the DUP?

Entirely possible I suppose. :D

Entirely possible that the DUP would attract the conservative vote in Ireland. Plenty of them going by the abortion referendum.

Donald Trump

Taytoland wrote: »

Entirely possible that the DUP would attract the conservative vote in Ireland. Plenty of them going by the abortion referendum.

Ya bleedin' mad yoke :pac:

blinding

blinding wrote: »

You don’t actually need a deal to leave the Eu . They will let you go without a deal . The Eu is not a Prison...thankfully .

The British People want to leave the Eu . The weasley politicians are doing what weasley politicians always do . I.E. , What they think is best for themselves .

I could likely count on one hand the amount of British voters who wanted to crash out with nothing but the WTO when they voted.

While it would make great news, I very much hope that such an extreme event doesn't happen.

FrancieBrady

Taytoland wrote: »

Entirely possible that the DUP would attract the conservative vote in Ireland. Plenty of them going by the abortion referendum.

So what?
If they can get elected, so be it.

It is a democracy we will be setting up not a re-run of the sectarian based statelet they created in northern Ireland were people and their mandate are denied.