advantages of Brexit

shakeitoff

Treaty of Rome. Objective: EVER CLOSER UNION. This is exactly what we, they and everyone else signed up for.

Kermit.de.frog

shakeitoff wrote: »

Treaty of Rome. Objective: EVER CLOSER UNION. This is exactly what we, they and everyone else signed up for.

I don't mind ever closer union with Germany. But the Greeks?

Guy:Incognito

Well if they don't break up the UK they are massive hypocrites . If unions of countries like this are bad then Scotland , Wales and Ni shoild "take back their soverenty" and be encouraged to do so by England.

The Rape of Lucretia

shakeitoff wrote: »

Treaty of Rome. Objective: EVER CLOSER UNION. This is exactly what we, they and everyone else signed up for.

That was in the Stuttgart Declaration in fact. But yes, its what we signed up for, what the EU is delivering, and the foundation to our prosperity, security, standing in the world, and all else that makes for the synergy and dynamism of our common European heritage.

Kermit.de.frog

Will there be another Irish Civil War?

Pro EU forces vs anti EU treaty forces?


Which side would Mick take?


So many questions.

prinzeugen

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Well if they don't break up the UK they are massive hypocrites . If unions of countries like this are bad then Scotland , Wales and Ni shoild "take back their soverenty" and be encouraged to do so by England.

Scotland didn't have its sovereignty taken from it. If fact they wanted a union with England after its own colonial ambitions went a bit tits up.

Hitman3000

The Rape of Lucretia wrote:

But they'll come around.

Sincerely doubt it. A far more stubborn mindset.

fritzelly

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

There is undoubtedly one huge upside to Brexit - Europe will be free to progress without the whinger at the back trying to stop everthing. Bloody hell. Its been like trying to drive with the handbrake on for the last 40 years. Good riddance I say.

Hmm, Ireland tried that and were told to go back to the polls

Kermit.de.frog

Twenty Grand

fritzelly wrote: »

Hmm, Ireland tried that and were told to go back to the polls

Both the nice and lisbon treaties were changed extensively to assuage the fears (some f*cking retarded) peddled by the Shinners and the like.

They were the same in name only.

ArchXStanton

Twenty Grand wrote: »

Both the nice and lisbon treaties were changed extensively to assuage the fears (some f*cking retarded) peddled by the Shinners and the like.

They were the same in name only.

"Public opinion will be led to adopt, without knowing it, the proposals that we dare not present to them directly . . . All the earlier proposals will be in the new text, but will be hidden and disguised in some way . . . What was (already) difficult to understand will become utterly incomprehensible, but the substance has been retained." - D'Estaing

Hmm sounds like administrative abuse

prinzeugen

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Notice its only the left wing, pro EU rags that are running this story. As with food, procuring medical supplies on a vast scale takes months. The NHS buying supplies now to be covered for the winter is not "stockpiling for Britex"... Its called being prepared for the winter. The HSE does exactly the same.

The EU will go one of two ways. It will become a superstate or it will die.

I predict they will push the further integration thing and in 20 years time the Eastern block countries will have gone and a EU superstate will exist consuming the remaining members.

Twenty Grand

ArchXStanton wrote: »

"Public opinion will be led to adopt, without knowing it, the proposals that we dare not present to them directly . . . All the earlier proposals will be in the new text, but will be hidden and disguised in some way . . . What was (already) difficult to understand will become utterly incomprehensible, but the substance has been retained." - D'Estaing

Hmm sounds like administrative abuse

https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2055684513

Boards has the answer for everything

ArchXStanton

Twenty Grand wrote: »

https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2055684513

Boards has the answer for everything

No smoke without fire...

The aim of the Constitutional Treaty was to be more readable; the aim of this treaty is to be unreadable … The Constitution aimed to be clear, whereas this treaty had to be unclear. It is a success.” Karel de Gucht

Not exactly the most transparent and honest bunch

riffmongous

shakeitoff wrote: »

Treaty of Rome. Objective: EVER CLOSER UNION. This is exactly what we, they and everyone else signed up for.

So at some point the EU want us all to merge into one super-form and shared consciousness? I can get behind that

Leroy42

Stockpiling food and medicine for winter?

I get our climate is changing, but are they really expecting winter to start at the end of March?

prinzeugen

Leroy42 wrote: »

Stockpiling food and medicine for winter?

I get our climate is changing, but are they really expecting winter to start at the end of March?

Eh?? I suggest you go on 4 on demand (4OD) and watch a few programmes about why you can buy food all year round.

Do you think potatoes come from a factory?

The NHS does not pop down to the local Boots chemist when they need something. They buy on an industrial scale.

As does Tesco, Dunnes, Lidl etc. They buy now to guarantee supply of food in the future.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

There can be advantageous things happen if we shift away from cheddar cheese making, to diversifying what cheese we produce for export. There are 100's of cheeses, so it is quite possible.

More UK and US multinationals will look at us as a more viable option being the only English speaking country left in the EU. The relatively low corporation tax should help too. But what a unique chance we are being handed here. English will still be the dominant language for business, and we'll be the only country that actually speaks it natively in the EU.

4068ac1elhodqr

With every crisis comes opportunity.

If it's a post-hard-on brexit, what some media houses are pushing as Fear 2.0, the 'armageddoneixtious',
maybe it's worth piling the cold larder full of creamy butter, to sell to the very distant eng cousins at a heavy premium.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

I'm concerned that many British businesses will go splash once Brexit happens. Like the cost of Tesco or Debenhams to import stuff from there to here will be too hard and they will be destroyed here.

This whole thing really does push Ireland together in a way that has never been the case before. Northern Ireland isn't part of Britain, it especially doesn't make sense that they would hold onto them and pay for the whole thing. Let's see how it plays out, but 5/10 years Britain will be actively pushing Northern Ireland away.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

Garrett Thundering Log wrote: »

With every crisis comes opportunity.

If it's a post-hard-on brexit, what some media houses are pushing as Fear 2.0, the 'armageddoneixtious',
maybe it's worth piling the cold larder full of creamy butter, to sell to the very distant eng cousins at a heavy premium.

The EU will be fine with a Hard Brexit. Ireland will do just fine with a Hard Brexit once there is no Hard Irish Border.

4068ac1elhodqr

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

I'm concerned that many British businesses will go splash once Brexit happens. Like the cost of Tesco or Debenhams to import stuff from there to here will be too hard and they will be destroyed here.

This whole thing really does push Ireland together in a way that has never been the case before. Northern Ireland isn't part of Britain, it especially doesn't make sense that they would hold onto them and pay for the whole thing. Let's see how it plays out, but 5/10 years Britain will be actively pushing Northern Ireland away.

Good point, the UK retail sector is already heading for trouble, one article suggests 30,000 retail units are in trouble already (the increasing likes of Amazon doesn't pay huge shop rates, and it's mega-sized automated warehouse barely employs anyone).

In 5/10yrs there is one major curve ball in realtion to NI, and that is an Independent Scotland, maybe one that re-joins the EU, and trades freely with Ireland.

Kermit.de.frog

ArchXStanton

ArchXStanton wrote: »

Indeed onward towards a federal superstate...that none of the public were asked about

It's not like the British, of all people, were ever opposed to any form of superstate - as always, they were against it because they weren't top dogs. Britain's post-WWII conceit and imperial delusions that led to it refusing to join the ECSC/EEC in the 1940s/50s are the root cause of so many British problems with the EU. That refusal was the biggest British own goal of the 20th century. Pride comes before the fall, as they say.

FrancieBrady

The Brexiteers have forgotten that Britian had run out of the Empire dividend.
Consistently in economic trouble they required an IMF bailout in 76 because their economy had failed to function, it was discovering Scottish oil and joining the EEC that rescued them.
The economy they have today owes itself to that rather than any historical prowess the little Englander/Empire mentality fantasises about.

It is only a matter of how long they can last outside the EU without crashing again, not a matter if will they or won't they prosper or succeed.

Leroy42

prinzeugen wrote: »

Eh?? I suggest you go on 4 on demand (4OD) and watch a few programmes about why you can buy food all year round.

Do you think potatoes come from a factory?

The NHS does not pop down to the local Boots chemist when they need something. They buy on an industrial scale.

As does Tesco, Dunnes, Lidl etc. They buy now to guarantee supply of food in the future.

Yes, but their ability to buy that food is the problem. Lack of imports caused by lack of facilities at ports is the first hurdle. This can be overcome by simply throwing the borders open for a time.

Then you run into licencing and credit. Where will companies buy their food from? Will they have the credit facilities, what are the ability of countries to export to the UK? Who now covers the cost of the Tariffs? Will the exporter simply get the previous price or will the cost of importing rise?

Where will all this stockpiling take place? Will the UK government be providing the logistics and depots for the stocking of goods?

Tesco etc work on a supply chain, they don't have to stockpile, they let their suppliers do that. Sure they have depots, but mostly for a day of two on the basis on continuous replenishment. A massive hold up on the ports will lead to even extra days stock being needed. Lets say they currently hold 5 days stock. Will they need to be 6, 10, 20? Who covers the extra cash-flow costs, the extra storage costs, the extra manpower and logistics costs?

An that probably fine if you're Tesco, but what about the local stores. The village shop. Are they expected to stockpile as well. And the local doctor of pharmacist? Fine the NHS can increase their stock of medicine, but what about those?

Spook_ie

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The Brexiteers have forgotten that Britian had run out of the Empire dividend.
Consistently in economic trouble they required an IMF bailout in 76 because their economy had failed to function, it was discovering Scottish oil and joining the EEC that rescued them.
The economy they have today owes itself to that rather than any historical prowess the little Englander/Empire mentality fantasises about.

It is only a matter of how long they can last outside the EU without crashing again, not a matter if will they or won't they prosper or succeed.

UK were in the EU in 1973

Buford T. Justice XIX

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Will there be another Irish Civil War?

Pro EU forces vs anti EU treaty forces?


Which side would Mick take?


So many questions.

Threads only open since last night so give me a chance to make up my mind:rolleyes:

FrancieBrady

Spook_ie wrote: »

UK were in the EU in 1973

Yes, and it didn't immediately pay dividends, just as it didn't here. It took time, but so badly ill was their economy they still crashed.

Spook_ie

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Yes, and it didn't immediately pay dividends, just as it didn't here. It took time, but so badly ill was their economy they still crashed.

But the EEC didn't rescue them it was a multi billion pound loan from the IMF and a swathe of spending cuts, just like Ireland recently.

In fact it could well have been the spending cuts that ultimately led to the rise of Thatcherism

Donald Trump

Has nobody mentioned a hard border as an advatage?


We could build a big feckin' wall around it. 100 foot high. Keep the Nordies in their box


I love walls I do

Spook_ie

Donald Trump wrote: »

Has nobody mentioned a hard border as an advatage?


We could build a big feckin' wall around it. 100 foot high. Keep the Nordies in their box


I love walls I do

Be far more of an advantage to dig a large Suez/Panama canal type thing, 1000's of jobs created during construction, no hard border because it wouldn't be a part of Ireland, every thing solved

FrancieBrady

Spook_ie wrote: »

But the EEC didn't rescue them it was a multi billion pound loan from the IMF and a swathe of spending cuts, just like Ireland recently.

In fact it could well have been the spending cuts that ultimately led to the rise of Thatcherism

The IMF loan got them over the hump of immediate collapse.

Joining the EEC and Scottish oil rescued them from the consistent chaos in their economy since the war.

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The IMF loan got them over the hump of immediate collapse.

Joining the EEC and Scottish oil rescued them from the consistent chaos in their economy since the war.

You could just as easily (and probably more correctly) credit Thatcher with that.

Donald Trump

Spook_ie wrote: »

Be far more of an advantage to dig a large Suez/Panama canal type thing, 1000's of jobs created during construction, no hard border because it wouldn't be a part of Ireland, every thing solved

A big feckin' moat and then the worlds largest barge-pole to push them off towards the North Sea.

Happy days

FrancieBrady

Aegir wrote: »

You could just as easily (and probably more correctly) credit Thatcher with that.

Yeh, if you were trying to ignore the obvious.

It's funny that about the only people (with skin in the game, not cheerleaders) who give sole credit to Thatcher are those who benefited from the loosening of controls on banking and deregulating the City Of London. And look what that 'loosening/deregulation' caused. :rolleyes:

biko

Even if Brexit happens I doubt Ireland will follow suit.




The yearning to have foreign rulers is just too great.

Pogue eile

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

More UK and US multinationals will look at us as a more viable option being the only English speaking country left in the EU.

Malta says hi!

ArrBee

marieholmfan wrote: »

Should be great for Cork if it all goes tits up! Cork airport doesn't overfly the UK (neither does Shannon for long haul)

.

Why does that matter?

The issue about flights is the takeoff and landing agreements that are in place.
UK would need to negotiate new ones instead of piggybacking off the EU ones as they do now.

Some convention allows for flights over airspace en route.

Well, thats my understanding of it anyway.

ablelocks

norway and switzerland have political systems based on collective responsibility / collaboration and the greater good.

The United Kingdom? Well, just look at how they have conducted themselves since the referendum. In-fighting, back-stabbing in both the main parties - it's a not-so-civil conflict over the future of the country, but none of the political parties seem to have a vision of what it is they want the UK to become post-brexit.

Zimbabwe they won't be, but if I lived in the UK, I'd be very nervous about how the "ruling" classes will manage the country if brexit (in whatever form) does happen

Pogue eile

biko wrote: »

Even if Brexit happens I doubt Ireland will follow suit.

And thank fcuk for that, its enough to have one uneducated, misinformed shower of idiots, its like the old adage that the mammys of Ireland loved parting on their offspring...''and if Johnny jumped off a bridge would you jump off as well?''

Back to the OP's question, I think the biggest advantage will be the ****s and giggles, it will be fcuking hilarious watching them crumble and turn on each other, and the DUP's reaction when it becomes clear to them ( probably a year or two after everyone else, as they are not the sharpest tools in the box) that NI is no longer part of the UK and not wanted by Dublin either.

It was predicted at the time, and still is in some fanciful UK publications, that this could trigger the end of the EU, the hilarious reality is that what it will trigger is the end of the UK.

10000maniacs

I don't know about any advantages, but this sums it up nicely.

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Yeh, if you were trying to ignore the obvious.

It's funny that about the only people (with skin in the game, not cheerleaders) who give sole credit to Thatcher are those who benefited from the loosening of controls on banking and deregulating the City Of London. And look what that 'loosening/deregulation' caused. :rolleyes:

ignoring the obvious? you mean that the unions had the country on its knees and no one wanted to invest there because of ridiculously militant unions and excessively high taxation?

Did you live in the UK at the time? do you remember the power cuts, the constant strikes and the working practice restrictions brought about by demarcation?

Jesus, I remember having our first phone line fitted and my dad going mad because the guy who was supposed to drill the hole in the wall was off sick, so it got delayed. The guy who actually installed the line wasn't allowed to drill the ****ing hole in the wall, because that job was a different trade and doing so could have led to a dispute between unions. it was ****ing bizarre.

That is why the Uk was going bust and changing and modernising those practices is what attracted companies like Toyota, Honda, Panasonic and Nissan to the UK. The EEC helped, sure, but the UK recovering was as much down to modernisation of the workforce than it was the EU (which didn't even exist then).

PlaneSpeeking

Pogue eile wrote: »

And thank fcuk for that, its enough to have one uneducated, misinformed shower of idiots, its like the old adage that the mammys of Ireland loved parting on their offspring...''and if Johnny jumped off a bridge would you jump off as well?''

Back to the OP's question, I think the biggest advantage will be the ****s and giggles, it will be fcuking hilarious watching them crumble and turn on each other, and the DUP's reaction when it becomes clear to them ( probably a year or two after everyone else, as they are not the sharpest tools in the box) that NI is no longer part of the UK and not wanted by Dublin either.

It was predicted at the time, and still is in some fanciful UK publications, that this could trigger the end of the EU, the hilarious reality is that what it will trigger is the end of the UK.

Clearly you've met my mother!!!

Is there anything to be said for making "Northern Ireland" a country in it's own right, letting them stay in the EU - meaning no customs hard border and then telling Great Britain to f**k off ???

El Weirdo

Pogue eile wrote: »

Malta says hi!

She?

Spook_ie

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

Clearly you've met my mother!!!

Is there anything to be said for making "Northern Ireland" a country in it's own right, letting them stay in the EU - meaning no customs hard border and then telling Great Britain to f**k off ???

Now that would be interesting, NI declared as independent and an EU peace keeping force sent in if the troubles start again

Cabaal

One advantage of brexit is its easy spot the racists when they are pro-brexit and they say they voted leave to keep the blacks out of the UK.
You know...."the blacks", that come from common wealth and former empire countrys :pac:

PlaneSpeeking

Spook_ie wrote: »

Now that would be interesting, NI declared as independent and an EU peace keeping force sent in if the troubles start again

Rather see the pale blue hats than the Brits there so yeah worth a shot!!

We don't want it back - waaaaay too much hassle!!!

El Weirdo

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

We don't want it back - waaaaay too much hassle!!!

Speak for your fucking self, pal.

Cabaal

Pogue eile wrote: »

Malta says hi!

European English speaking country with an area bigger then 122 sq miles, Ireland being 32,595 sq miles